1. #18661
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because presenting what happened as just a "oops, I didn't realize what I was doing!" is pretty damned galling.
    Let's not pretend the American justice system wouldn't do exactly just that.

  2. #18662
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, it’s galling. It’s also not entirely inconsistent with the history of these kinds of cases.
    Yeah well before all of this shit I never even knew 3rd Degree murder was a thing.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  3. #18663
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They're three separate charges; the jury rules on each separately, they aren't picking between them.

    I'm expecting guilty on two counts, won't be shocked if it's guilty on three (if anything, the prosecution aimed low here). I'll be a little surprised if it's only guilty on one, the weakest charge, the negligent manslaughter.

    Because presenting what happened as just a "oops, I didn't realize what I was doing!" is pretty damned galling.
    That's not correct. There are three separate charges, but the jury is picking between them. You can't be found guilty of, for instance, Second Degree Murder AND First Degree Murder for the killing of one person. Just one would apply.

    The jury is deliberating between them, based on their requirements. I posted a few pages back what those were, for each charge.

  4. #18664
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, it’s galling. It’s also not entirely inconsistent with the history of these kinds of cases.
    Which is why Waters is right.

    Unless the pattern changes, the police are the heavily-armed-and-precipitously-violent enemies of the people, and every citizen should treat them accordingly. They don't protect and serve; they murder and harass. And it isn't a case of "a few bad apples". The phrase goes "a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel". If you can't identify and remove those bad apples, the entire barrel, the entire police department, they're all bad, and complicit.

  5. #18665
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, it’s galling. It’s also not entirely inconsistent with the history of these kinds of cases.
    Endus is incorrect - the jury is picking between the three charges.

  6. #18666
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yeah well before all of this shit I never even knew 3rd Degree murder was a thing.
    Considering how complicated the legal system is it’s kinda crazy they take a group of laymen and ask them to judge the outcome.

  7. #18667
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's not correct. There are three separate charges, but the jury is picking between them. You can't be found guilty of, for instance, Second Degree Murder AND First Degree Murder for the killing of one person. Just one would apply.
    That's only true in cases where the charges are mutually exclusive.

    And everyone I've seen is reporting that he could be found guilty on one, two, or three of those charges here.

    https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2021/...chauvin-trial/

    CNN's been saying much the same in their live coverage (I flipped it on in the background while I'm waiting).

    Edit: Another link, the WSJ; https://www.wsj.com/articles/derek-c...ct-11618852907
    "The jury can convict Mr. Chauvin of any combination of the charges."

  8. #18668
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which is why Waters is right.

    Unless the pattern changes, the police are the heavily-armed-and-precipitously-violent enemies of the people, and every citizen should treat them accordingly. They don't protect and serve; they murder and harass. And it isn't a case of "a few bad apples". The phrase goes "a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel". If you can't identify and remove those bad apples, the entire barrel, the entire police department, they're all bad, and complicit.
    Waters was always right. I completely agree with your sentiment here. Our entire nation's police force has to be revamped.

  9. #18669
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Endus is incorrect - the jury is picking between the three charges.
    There’s that too. I was just saying if he got off with the lightest charge it wouldn’t be inconceivable.

  10. #18670
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which is why Waters is right.

    Unless the pattern changes, the police are the heavily-armed-and-precipitously-violent enemies of the people, and every citizen should treat them accordingly. They don't protect and serve; they murder and harass. And it isn't a case of "a few bad apples". The phrase goes "a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel". If you can't identify and remove those bad apples, the entire barrel, the entire police department, they're all bad, and complicit.
    I agree, a guy literally dragged a police officer with his truck and was apprehended not even a week after what happened in Brooklyn Center, there is no going back.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  11. #18671
    Cruz: Biden comments on Chauvin verdict "grounds for a mistrial" https://t.co/xVUw8Dure1 https://t.co/CWrioAyAzl
    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...632153604?s=19

    The GOP truly are pieces of feces. Knowing Chauvin is likely guilty (verdict anytime now) they by any means want to get this killer off.

    It's signaling to the large racist base in the Republican Party.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  12. #18672
    If this motherfucker is found not guility...
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  13. #18673
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Waters was always right. I completely agree with your sentiment here. Our entire nation's police force has to be revamped.
    I think when I finally woke up was almost 20 years ago when the Supreme Court determined that a Police Officer is under NO obligation to save my life or anyone else. Made me think then what the fuck is the point.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  14. #18674
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's only true in cases where the charges are mutually exclusive.

    And everyone I've seen is reporting that he could be found guilty on one, two, or three of those charges here.

    https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2021/...chauvin-trial/

    CNN's been saying much the same in their live coverage (I flipped it on in the background while I'm waiting).
    That article makes the issue confusing. The issue can get complicated when multiple charges for the same act are presented. At the end of the day, if there are multiple guilty verdicts on the charges, he will only be found guilty on the highest degree charge - if that makes sense.

    So if it's guilty on Manslaughter 3, Murder 3, but not guilty on Murder 2, then the final conviction would be Murder 3. He wouldn't be guilty of both charges, because they are for the same crime.

    Edit: typo - "would be Murder 3"

  15. #18675
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...632153604?s=19

    The GOP truly are pieces of feces. Knowing Chauvin is likely guilty (verdict anytime now) they by any means want to get this killer off.

    It's signaling to the large racist base in the Republican Party.
    lol millions of people commenting on the trial but Biden's comments are grounds for a mistrial....

    if this was the case then every trial would have to be held in secret.

    God the stupidity of Texas might soon outweigh florida....might....
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  16. #18676
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Endus is incorrect - the jury is picking between the three charges.
    No, they are not.

    The jury will determine if Chauvin is guilty or not guilty of three separate charges and will decide each one individually.

    It’s possible the jury could find Chauvin guilty of all charges, guilty of some and not guilty of others or could acquit him of all charges. If the jury acquits him of all charges, Chauvin could be charged in federal court.
    As noted here, and elsewhere.

    It is in the sentencing phase where what you mention applies, but the verdict and conviction would still stand.

    If Chauvin is convicted of any of the charges against him, he’ll likely serve multiple years in prison. The Minnesota sentencing guidelines for each of his two murder charges are 12.5 years and for his manslaughter charge are four years. He’ll only serve time for his most serious charge if he’s found guilty of all charges, although the prosecution plans to ask the judge for a longer sentence than the recommended 12.5 years.
    Last edited by Zardoz541; 2021-04-20 at 08:54 PM.

  17. #18677
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...632153604?s=19

    The GOP truly are pieces of feces. Knowing Chauvin is likely guilty (verdict anytime now) they by any means want to get this killer off.

    It's signaling to the large racist base in the Republican Party.
    Cruz can go headbutt a flock of geese.

  18. #18678
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardoz541 View Post
    No, they are not.

    The jury will determine if Chauvin is guilty or not guilty of three separate charges and will decide each one individually.

    It’s possible the jury could find Chauvin guilty of all charges, guilty of some and not guilty of others or could acquit him of all charges. If the jury acquits him of all charges, Chauvin could be charged in federal court.
    As noted here, and elsewhere.
    It's complicated. The article is right, and I'm right - because we're essentially saying the same thing. Let me repeat a previous post:

    That article makes the issue confusing. The issue can get complicated when multiple charges for the same act are presented. At the end of the day, if there are multiple guilty verdicts on the charges, he will only be found guilty on the highest degree charge - if that makes sense.

    So if it's guilty on Manslaughter 3, Murder 3, but not guilty on Murder 2, then the final conviction would be Murder 3. He wouldn't be guilty of both charges, because they are for the same crime.

  19. #18679
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Cruz can go headbutt a flock of geese.
    Don’t try this at home! Geese are angry birbs.

  20. #18680
    Second degree murder seems hard to get. But third degree and manslaughter looks pretty much guarantee.

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