Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Yuujin]

Did you not even read the title of the thing you're linking?



One as in one person... like you're not even reading your own fucking shit.

Also what do you have to say about the millions of stops and profiles made against black and brown peopel?

What do you have to say about black people being 500% more likely to be punished with a drug crime than whites when whites are the majority who are more likely to both use and sell drugs yet black people and latinos end up making up the majority of those in prison for a crime that white people are more likely to commit.

There is an entire justice system against blacks and latinos in this country and you know how many dies in jail? it is between 27 times the murder rate of the country for jails and 56 TIMES THE MURDER RATE at prisons.

Almost 6000 deaths every year, and most prisoners are in prison for... non violent crimes many of them are there for crimes that white people never go to jail for, or very rarely go to jail for.

You do know that whites get much lower sentences for same crime right? But let me guess.. that's not a problem for you because....... what they deserve it?

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Also It is important to take a step back, and study history.

What fucking revolution or major change has happened without violence and without riots?????

Those seem to be the only things that force peopel to make changes.

So if people want less rioting and looting, maybe they should give a fucking shit about human lives instead of a burning fucking pile of god damn bricks that insurance will pay for.

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Did you see this bullshit!!!!
How can they do that!!!

Violence against property is never the answer, and why would they take down history like that?! Fucking crazy how violent mobs can just tear down history like that!

Heart breaking. It belongs in a museum.

[Edge-]

Here's my issue with looting in the US; it gives the conservative nutjobs an in to exercise their 2A rights, the police are already a compromised institution as far as brutality against minorities is concerned, and there is this middle-ground of independent voters who are so on the fence social equality/inequality, that it may tip them. And that's separate to the fact that I'm fundamentally opposed to looting/rioting.

I mean, it's all very academic from the outside, yeah. I get you and from an outside PoV I agree. But it's very different for the people directly involved and effected. To many of them, if you're still on the fence at this point, you're part of the problem that's enabled this bullshit for generations.

That's not to say I support or condone the behavior, but in context some of it is absolutely understandable when you have a community that's been shit on, ignored, and shit on again despite peaceful protests to make their issues heard.

[Darththeo]

One thing, yes, I can say looting and rioting is taking things to far ... however, I have to remember one of the things that happened in the Revolutionary War was essentially rioting by destroying property. We literally celebrate the Boston Tea Party as something to be proud of, but if something like the Boston Tea Party happened today, people would be calling them all sorts of names.

[DingDongKing]

I mean, it's all very academic from the outside, yeah. I get you and from an outside PoV I agree. But it's very different for the people directly involved and effected. To many of them, if you're still on the fence at this point, you're part of the problem that's enabled this bullshit for generations.

That's not to say I support or condone the behavior, but in context some of it is absolutely understandable when you have a community that's been shit on, ignored, and shit on again despite peaceful protests to make their issues heard.

I agree, the fence sitters are part of the problem. No one in the right mind should be denying social equality. But I cannot condone violence. Right from police brutality to looting to gang crimes (regardless of race). I'm just a damn pacifist in every way, no matter how much I like video games.

[Elegiac]

Here's my issue with looting in the US; it gives the conservative nutjobs an in to exercise their 2A rights, the police are already a compromised institution as far as brutality against minorities is concerned, and there is this middle-ground of independent voters who are so on the fence social equality/inequality, that it may tip them. So it's risk/reward. And that's separate to the fact that I'm fundamentally opposed to looting/rioting.

*blinks slowly and taps the the "2A Advocacy Has Always Been a Front For White Supremacy" sign*

It would make not a lick of difference regardless, as we saw with Trayvon Martin.

The "independent voter" argument can be summed up as follows - "If you want us to respect you as human beings and equal citizens, you must plead your case before us within these parameters we have identified according to our own comfort levels, or else we will have no choice but to further brutalise you." It's nonsense.

[DingDongKing]

*blinks slowly and taps the the "2A Advocacy Has Always Been a Front For White Supremacy" sign*

It would make not a lick of difference regardless, as we saw with Trayvon Martin.

The "independent voter" argument can be summed up as follows - "If you want us to respect you as human beings and equal citizens, you must plead your case before us within these parameters we have identified according to our own comfort levels, or else we will have no choice but to further brutalise you." It's nonsense.

Thing is, man I get it. The 2Aers will do what they're gonna do. The independent voter has been fed fear for so long, it's no surprise they don't know what's what. They're not irredeemable, but they've been in the basement locked up, it's going to take turning. I don't like it anymore than you do.

But all that said, if I was a business owner in any town or a resident of any town, would I want my shit burning down? No. But like you've said, would I want anyone in my town being brutalised? Fuck no. So I can see the through-line. Don't oppress, and there won't be outbreaks of violence.

The entire system is irresponsible, but it doesn't make it any more right. It's like Biden said today, 'hate only hides and we can't legitimise it'.

[SirBeef]

One thing, yes, I can say looting and rioting is taking things to far ... however, I have to remember one of the things that happened in the Revolutionary War was essentially rioting by destroying property. We literally celebrate the Boston Tea Party as something to be proud of, but if something like the Boston Tea Party happened today, people would be calling them all sorts of names.

This country was founded on the principles of breaking laws and destruction of property to force change. This is as American as apple pie and racism.

[Edge-]

This country was founded on the principles of breaking laws and destruction of property to force change. This is as American as apple pie and racism.

And killing, don't forget a lot of killing.

And the South tried it a second time when they felt the institution of slavery was under threat. Unfortunately for them their cause was not so righteous and their ideology not so conducive to nation-building, resulting in their ultimate loss.

[NED funded]

“I had no choice. I mean, I, I had a choice. I could have sat there and watched them kill a friend of mine of color. But I wasn't going to do that.”

Interesting choice of words from the guy that shot that Union Patriot guy in Portland

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v...n-self-defense

Vice has a nice interview about it. What ideology can do to a man

[postman1782]

Interesting choice of words from the guy that shot that Union Patriot guy in Portland

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v...n-self-defense

Vice has a nice interview about it. What ideology can do to a man

Says the Trump supporter? Talk about fucking ironic.

[Masark]

The scope of it is insane. 15-20 deputies are members of the internal gang? They were actively recruiting multiple additional members in a competition where only 2 can join each year, no women or people of color?

How is the entire department not placed on leave pending a full investigation of criminal behavior and, at best, officers not blowing the whistle earlier? Because it sure seems like much of the department would have to be actively complicit in knowing about and covering up for the gang. Especially considering teh allegation that he gang runs the whole station.

Oh, it's not an internal gang. It's close to a dozen of them going all the way back to the 70s. The sheriff thinks it would be unconstitutional to prevent his officers from joining neo-nazi gangs, especially the one he ran.

The department needs a wrecking ball and a truckload of salt to sow with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynwood_Vikings

[muto]

Interesting choice of words from the guy that shot that Union Patriot guy in Portland

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v...n-self-defense

Vice has a nice interview about it. What ideology can do to a man

Yep pretty sad. Murdered the guy in cold blood then probably was armed and likely resisted arrest against the Feds, so they shot him.

[Themius]

Yep pretty sad. Murdered the guy in cold blood then probably was armed and likely resisted arrest against the Feds, so they shot him.

Murdered a guy who was macing people? Doesn't really seem cold blooded...

You know what is? Shooting a guy int he head because they threw a clear plastic bag.

[NED funded]

Yep pretty sad. Murdered the guy in cold blood then probably was armed and likely resisted arrest against the Feds, so they shot him.

Oh shit I didnt read that they shot him

Just caught up to that. Regardless of my feelings about the whole thing I would have loved to get a more complete picture about the incident and the people surrounding it

[Deus Mortis]

The guy who shot and killed the patriot prayer guy has been shot and killed.

https://apnews.com/f0418fd4a37be8d9b6953c8359109587

A man suspected of fatally shooting a supporter of a right-wing group in Portland, Oregon, last week after a caravan of Donald Trump backers rode through downtown was killed Thursday as investigators moved in to arrest him, a senior Justice Department official told The Associated Press.

The man, Michael Reinoehl, 48, was killed as a federal task force attempted to apprehend him in Lacey, Washington, the official said. Reinoehl was the prime suspect in the killing of 39-year-old Aaron “Jay” Danielson, who was shot in the chest Saturday night, the official said.

Federal agents from the FBI and the U.S. Marshals Service had located Reinoehl on Thursday after a warrant was issued for his arrest. During the encounter, Reinoehl was shot by a law enforcement officer who was working on the federal task force, the official said.

The official said Reinoehl had pulled a gun during the encounter and was shot by law enforcement. The official could not discuss the matter publicly and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. Marshals Service fugitive task forces, comprised of deputy marshals, other federal agents and local law enforcement officers from a variety of agencies, are responsible for apprehending violent felons and other wanted suspects

Reinoehl had described himself in a social media post as “100% ANTIFA,” suggested the tactics of counter-protesters amounted to “warfare,” and had been shot at one protest and cited for having a gun at another.

[Masark]

And two Blue militia members with a bunch of illegal guns arrested on their way to Kenosha.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/blue-lives...ry?id=72808923

Two Missouri men were arrested on firearm charges after a tipster warned law enforcement the pair were traveling to Kenosha, Wisconsin, with assault-style weapons, according to court documents.

Michael M. Karmo, 40, and Cody E. Smith, 33, were arrested at a hotel near Kenosha on Tuesday and charged with illegal possession of firearms, the Department of Justice announced Thursday.

...

FBI officials tracked down Karmo and Smith Tuesday evening outside a Toyota Highlander in the parking lot of a hotel in Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin, the complaint said. Items allegedly recovered from the car and their hotel room included an Armory AR-15 assault rifle, a Mossberg 500 AB 12-Gauge shotgun, two handguns, a "homemade silencer-type device," a twisted cable survival saw, ammunition, body armor and a drone, according to the complaint.

Both men had prior convictions that prohibited them from possessing firearms and ammunition, according to the DOJ.

...

"Karmo stated that he would be willing to 'take action' if police were defunded," the complaint alleged.

Karmo allegedly told the FBI he and Smith are members of an organization called the 417 Second Amendment Militia, the complaint said.

[Shalcker]

You’re making sweet generalisations in bad faith, go back to the drawing board.

1. One article =/= all US media.

How many examples exactly do you need to change your conclusion? Do you at least agree that anyone that does it does not have best US interests at heart?

Many clearly are interested defending in (or "excusing") riots as political points against Trump.

2. Police brutality is a serious and ongoing issue in the US. It’s also not new. Black people have been dying in questionable circumstances for a VERY VERY long time. It’s just that under Trump, things are far worse because the President is doing nothing to even provide lip service condemning these murders. So people have had enough. And before you get all outraged, that does not justify looting and rioting. But peaceful protesting is very common place in democratic nations. Maybe not Russia.

...just like the point you're repeating here. You say it doesn't justify it (that's arguable), but it is clearly enough to not outright condemn it. How many such protests did not turn to violence and looting so far?

As far as i see thing got far worse because of coronavirus and subsequent economic downturn that created a lot of tension all around the country - and a lot of people with nothing better to do. That's how they get current numbers. I don't think even Obama's soothing word would be able to change that reality, and it's not like "protests" weren't multi-month already under Obama either.

We have multi-week protests over Khabarovsk governor arrest still ongoing. Also peaceful. Because anything violent gets cracked down hard immediately.

[DarkTZeratul]

The guy who shot and killed the patriot prayer guy has been shot and killed.

https://apnews.com/f0418fd4a37be8d9b6953c8359109587

The NY Times article differs slightly from the AP News article in how the official described events. I'm willing to chalk it up to it being an evolving story until I see more details or get confirmation, but if this is accurate it strikes me as being remarkably suspicious:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/u...-shooting.html

“As they attempted to apprehend him, there was gunfire,” Lieutenant Brady said. He said four law enforcement officers fired their weapons.

Lieutenant Brady said the Sheriff’s Office, which is investigating the shooting, heard that the suspect was carrying a gun, but he did not immediately know whether the suspect fired a weapon.

[Shalcker]

One Author's Controversial View: 'In Defense Of Looting'

I noticed you snipped what is like, a big part of the headline to contextualize the content. But I guess it does make the strawman argument you are appearing to construct easier.

Are you saying that defending looting is justified with proper context?

...because that would run counter to the claim to which i was responding (that "noone does it"), thus making my point stronger.

[Specialka]

And killing, don't forget a lot of killing.

And the South tried it a second time when they felt the institution of slavery was under threat. Unfortunately for them their cause was not so righteous and their ideology not so conducive to nation-building, resulting in their ultimate loss.

mmh how about no ? You forget the South was also outmanned, military outclassed (as the North had better generals), and industrialy outclassed. So it is not that simple. Rewriting history much ?