Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Bodakane]

And there it ends. I don't give half a crap about "talking" or "my truth" or all that other bs. Bring me data.



Hahaha, I absolutely love when people of your ilk poison the well like this, providing nothing but Iwin/Youlose possible answers to the question.

Yeah, no. All that shows is that black people get arrested, period.
Is your claim that they're being falsely arrested? Then I'm on your side, let's prove the accusations are false and get those innocents out.
If not, that means they've been correctly arrested.

So I don't see what your issue is with criminals getting arrested. I don't give a crap about skin color when it comes to that, and neither should you.

Lol, typical bullshit.

If almost 90% of the people are saying it happens and the actual numbers you requested prove those almost 90% of people correct, then its not people speaking their truth or whatever crap you're spewing. It is fact.

What I provided is called logic. You likening logic to poison is telling though.

Of course you're missing the point as well. Think this through.....

The numbers show black people are arrested at a higher rate than any other race. That is either due to racism by the police departments or because black people are genetically predisposed to commit more crime. Which is it? There is literally no other possible reason but one of those two for black people to arrested more than any other race. That's not poisoning the argument, that is following it out to the logic conclusion.

[Endus]

Going by this logic all those "peaceful protesters" out there are also 100% violent rioters since they also practice what you describe here, and in much larger % compared to police cases of misbehaviour.

Not that I agree, I think you're insane. This stance is ridiculous, it completely discounts the human element.

The comparison you're making is just straight up dishonest.

1> Police have special rights and authorities, which they abuse. Protesters do not.
2> Police have a chain of command, who have the additional authority to remove officers from their positions if they abuse their authority. There's no such chain of command for protesters.
3> Police have a code of conduct they're required to abide by. Protesters? Nope.
4> Police have the support of their colleagues in defending and protecting their abuses, which is why a police officer may have dozens of use-of-force complaints against them, when the first should have seen them fired and probably charged with assault and battery and put in prison. Protesters aren't supporting violent protesters.

There's essentially no grounds for comparison on this topic. You're making up absolute nonsense that is completely divorced from reality and reason.

There is no "discounting the human element". Literally all that's being called for is that police be held to account to the same kinds of standards they hold everyone else to.

[Monster Hunter]

This is why america needs sir Robert Peels 9 principles of policing.

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

2.To recognize always that the power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.

3. To recognize always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing cooperation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.

4.To recognize always that the extent to which the cooperation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.

5.To seek and preserve public favor, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humor, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.

6.To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public cooperation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

7.To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

8.To recognize always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.

9.To recognize always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

[silveth]

Lol, typical bullshit.

If almost 90% of the people are saying it happens and the actual numbers you requested prove those almost 90% of people correct, then its not people speaking their truth or whatever crap you're spewing. It is fact.

What I provided is called logic. You likening logic to poison is telling though.

Of course you're missing the point as well. Think this through.....

The numbers show black people are arrested at a higher rate than any other race. That is either due to racism by the police departments or because black people are genetically predisposed to commit more crime. Which is it? There is literally no other possible reason but one of those two for black people to arrested more than any other race. That's not poisoning the argument, that is following it out to the logic conclusion.

Just to point out there could be other reasons to make the arrested rates different. What I would like to see is a breakdown on crime based on population location and police presence. AKA is there a correlation between city based arrests and suburb or rural based numbers? If we look at arrest rates and break them out to rural, suburb, and city, does each area have the same higher rates for 1 group over the other? If the economic ties to crime are true, then could there be anything to the location of the lower economic areas for the specific groups? Can this maybe have to do with the smaller areas served by higher numbers of law enforcement available to work on crimes? I have no idea how this would end up looking, but I personally haven't seen any kind of breakdown like that.

I am interested in knowing if the crime vs arrest rates are the same in all 3 different living areas or do they even out in say rural, but not suburb or city, or are they even in rural/suburb, but not city? Could the number of law enforcement available in a smaller area cause more arrests to be made in that area and what is the percentage of arrests vs crimes in each different type of living area.

I am honest, maybe someone did look into this kind of breakdown and I haven't seen it. Maybe the breakdown would show the same rates. I have no idea, but I would really be interested in seeing a report like that.

I will also point out your statement about predisposition is wrong. I believe economic situations have an impact on crime. That has nothing to do with skin race, but location of the people in those conditions might.

[Spectral]

The numbers show black people are arrested at a higher rate than any other race. That is either due to racism by the police departments or because black people are genetically predisposed to commit more crime. Which is it? There is literally no other possible reason but one of those two for black people to arrested more than any other race. That's not poisoning the argument, that is following it out to the logic conclusion.

Genetics differences between groups aren't the only plausible hypothesis for differences in behavior - socialization, local environment, economic conditions, and so on are all likely to play roles. You're giving a pretty big win to white nationalists if you move to stating outright that the only way two groups could actually be behaving differently is genetics.

[Reyuna]

BLM are going down in how they are viewed.. the Demonrats finally realising that the constant looting and rioting isn't actually a good look

Trump2020. Landslide victory coming Lots of tears from all the filth in this thread

Infract me.
[Infraction]

[Endus]

Just to point out there could be other reasons to make the arrested rates different.

If those issues are systemic rather than genetically inherent, that's what "systemic racism" is.

You're just quibbling over exactly how society is being systemically racist.

Genetics differences between groups aren't the only plausible hypothesis for differences in behavior - socialization, local environment, economic conditions, and so on are all likely to play roles. You're giving a pretty big win to white nationalists if you move to stating outright that the only way two groups could actually be behaving differently is genetics.

You too; you're describing systemic racism. Obviously, nobody here was arguing the differences were actually genetic. We're pointing out the differences exist because of a systemically racist society.

Those white nationalists, denying that systemic racism exists, they're doing so because they're straight-up racist; they see that systemic racism as desireable and "right". That's why they're describable as "white nationalists".

[NED funded]

Related to this topic but anyone else seen this??

https://www.buffaloschools.org/Page/93603

Public schools mandating that kids support Black Lives Matter as part of their curriculum. Like the movement Black Lives Matter not the idea of not being racist or awareness of race. Some cult like shit going there

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Related to this topic but anyone else seen this??

https://www.buffaloschools.org/Page/93603

Public schools mandating that kids support Black Lives Matter as part of their curriculum. Like the movement Black Lives Matter not the idea of not being racist or awareness of race. Some cult like shit going there

so where is the mandating support or cult like shit this seems incredibly reasonable.

Information about the BLM at school Demands:

What do we want? Justice!

In this era of mass incarceration, there is a school-to-prison-pipeline system that is more invested in locking up youth than unlocking their minds. That system uses harsh discipline policies that push Black students out of schools at disproportionate rates; denies students the right to learn about their own cultures and whitewashes the curriculum to exclude many of the struggles and contributions of Black people and other people of color; and is pushing out Black teachers from the schools in cities around the country. With this analysis, educators in the BLM at School movement developed these demands for the movement:
End “zero tolerance” discipline, and implement restorative justice
Hire more black teachers
Mandate Black history and ethnic studies in K-12 curriculum
Fund counselors
These demands will begin to insure safety and equity in our schools.

[Draco-Onis]

Related to this topic but anyone else seen this??

https://www.buffaloschools.org/Page/93603

Public schools mandating that kids support Black Lives Matter as part of their curriculum. Like the movement Black Lives Matter not the idea of not being racist or awareness of race. Some cult like shit going there

Did you read this? I am only asking because I don't think you did.

[Felya]

Public schools mandating that kids support Black Lives Matter as part of their curriculum. Like the movement Black Lives Matter not the idea of not being racist or awareness of race. Some cult like shit going there

I don’t see that in the link you provided...

[Spectral]

You too; you're describing systemic racism. Obviously, nobody here was arguing the differences were actually genetic. We're pointing out the differences exist because of a systemically racist society.

Those white nationalists, denying that systemic racism exists, they're doing so because they're straight-up racist; they see that systemic racism as desireable and "right". That's why they're describable as "white nationalists".

This is just about as dumb of a description as the previous false dichotomy, but it's about par for the course.

[NED funded]

so where is the mandating support or cult like shit this seems incredibly reasonable.

Did you read the material??

This goes to Draco Onis too who I feel just read your comment and dint bother either

Students will understand the need for BLM movement.

[Draco-Onis]

Did you read the material??

This goes to Draco Onis too who I feel just read your comment and dint bother either

Because when some of us went to school that part of the educational experience was missing until college. Did you not go to college or did you just ignore your history classes?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Did you read the material??

This goes to Draco Onis too who I feel just read your comment and dint bother either

there are a ton of links in there care to narrow it down?

also teaching them to understand the need isn't mandating support.

[Saucexorzski]

Did you read the material??

This goes to Draco Onis too who I feel just read your comment and dint bother either

well whos surprised when the same folks think that one's skin color determines if one is a racist or not. When "being white makes one a racist by default" than it's only logical that movements like BLM are needed.

[Themius]

This is just about as dumb of a description as the previous false dichotomy, but it's about par for the course.

Aren't you the "only systemic racism is against smart Asians!" person... Why would anyone care about what you have to say on systemic racism?

You use your experience as a white man with an asian wife to tells literally everyone else how systemic racism is like so totally overblown. You even have dabbled in racist pseudoscience in the past so.... what credibility do you have on this?

[Endus]

This is just about as dumb of a description as the previous false dichotomy, but it's about par for the course.

Is it that you dispute that systemic racism exists (and thus, believe any demographic variations are due to inherent superiority/inferiority), or that you simply do not understand what is meant by the term "systemic racism" in the first place?

Because differences in outcomes across demographics due to such factors as you listed is what systemic racism looks like. You pointed at systemic racism, and I pointed out that's what you were doing. Whats the issue, there?

[Themius]

Is it that you dispute that systemic racism exists (and thus, believe any demographic variations are due to inherent superiority/inferiority), or that you simply do not understand what is meant by the term "systemic racism" in the first place?

Because differences in outcomes across demographics due to such factors as you listed is what systemic racism looks like. You pointed at systemic racism, and I pointed out that's what you were doing. Whats the issue, there?

Yes to the bolded.

He has in the past subscribed to the idea that some races are simply "smarter and superior" than other races. He has subscribed to the idea that systemic racism against black people in say universities and jobs doesn't exist because it's really the Asians who are truly discriminated against. The group so discriminated against that they end up being over represented... while blacks and latinos are under represented... and more likely to be turned down for jobs... and often end up face racism in the jobs they have and being disproportionately put on PIP.

He doesn't believe systemic racism is a thing because he made it out as a poor white guy and we all know poor white guys and poor black guys have the exact same experience and don't face discrimination.

He subscribed to the idea that Africans are simply inferior because of low IQs and that intelligence is 100% genetic and therefore it is something wrong with the race. This was... like 5 years ago perhaps he has changed, but another topic 3 years ago... says no.

Never mind he he entirely ignored my argument back then when I pulled up the fact that Dutch Africans who are 100% white scored way lower than Dutch people in the Netherlands which supports my argument in that thread. That being that IQ tests are often too cultural.

[Spectral]

Is it that you dispute that systemic racism exists (and thus, believe any demographic variations are due to inherent superiority/inferiority), or that you simply do not understand what is meant by the term "systemic racism" in the first place?

Because differences in outcomes across demographics due to such factors as you listed is what systemic racism looks like. You pointed at systemic racism, and I pointed out that's what you were doing. Whats the issue, there?

Coming up systemic racism as the only explanation for disparities in behavior is pretty stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes to the bolded.

He has in the past subscribed to the idea that some races are simply "smarter and superior" than other races. He has subscribed to the idea that systemic racism against black people in say universities and jobs doesn't exist because it's really the Asians who are truly discriminated against. The group so discriminated against that they end up being over represented... while blacks and latinos are under represented... and more likely to be turned down for jobs... and often end up face racism in the jobs they have and being disproportionately put on PIP.

He doesn't believe systemic racism is a thing because he made it out as a poor white guy and we all know poor white guys and poor black guys have the exact same experience and don't face discrimination.

He subscribed to the idea that Africans are simply inferior because of low IQs and that intelligence is 100% genetic and therefore it is something wrong with the race. This was... like 5 years ago perhaps he has changed, but another topic 3 years ago... says no.

Never mind he he entirely ignored my argument back then when I pulled up the fact that Dutch Africans who are 100% white scored way lower than Dutch people in the Netherlands which supports my argument in that thread. That being that IQ tests are often too cultural.

I've certainly changed my mind on universities - they're deeply racist and should be defunded.