Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Levelfive]

Yes, I was wrong, and later corrected myself. Someone quoted me being wrong, and I told them how it was wrong.

It is not pointless to correctly charge a person for a crime. It is not morally dubious to correctly charge a person for a crime. It is not off-topic to talk about the correct crime in a thread about a crime that was committed. It is not pedantic to ensure that justice takes place.

If the person who quoted text I wrote 7 days ago had read the thread, this conversation wouldn't have happened. If you had read the thread, this conversation wouldn't have happened.

Except of course you were not charging someone with a crime, correctly or otherwise. You were being a pedant, and not even a correct one, in a thread about an extrajudicial killing, which makes it all the more morally dubious. Own it and hush now.

[Edge-]

Imo, it isn't inherently racist. But it is incredibly tone deaf, and ignorant of the reason BLM exists.

It's not maliciously racist inherently, but it's racist inherently regardless.

It's a knee-jerk reaction to, "But what about me and MY life?!" from white people that presumes "Black Lives Matter" either means "ONLY Black Lives Matter" or "White Lives Don't Matter", neither of which are remotely true.

It's the kinda thing someone should say once, be corrected about, and never repeat. But we see it continually repeated.

[Belize]

I've seen people other than white people use it. Often against white people.

Yeah, I don't believe that.

[Underverse]

People like you honestly do not give a fuck about data, at least not the meaning of the data.

People like you look at data, and then say well I don't need context, fuck context which is not how stats work.

For instance how does this happen?



Explain how this happens:



How black and latinos are charged as adults far more often than whites? Even when both groups are poor, or when both groups have money there's another study out of California on this that shows the same issue.

Do you think if a black or latino person punches a person that they're more criminal than a white teenager who also punches a person? Say the same intensity the same motive, the same socioeconomic background... why is it then white people are less likely to be charged as adults for these crimes?

That data needs the context of a list of crimes to compare, as there's huge disparities in racial distribution between crimes. 61% of minors who are arrested for murder are black, compared to 6.6% for driving under the influence. There's both overrepresentation and underrepresentation. In this case, black people appear to be overrepresented for murder, which is much more likely to land you prosecution as an adult if you're a minor. Note that these figures are for the whole US, and not just NJ. In NJ, 72% of all murders (not just juveniles, couldn't find that data) are committed by black people, which is much higher than the national average of 53%. Extrapolating from 53%/72% ratio for all age groups nationwide/NJ to the 61%/x% for juveniles nationwide/NJ gives you 82.8%, which is within spitting distance of your given statistic. And that's assuming that severity does not scale like incidence scales; that's harder to quantify without information on each murder.

So, that's how it happens without any extant racism. That isn't to say that there isn't racism, it's only to say that racism isn't necessarily the biggest factor or even a big factor at play here. The biggest factor is commitment of crimes.

[Levelfive]

Like, if your response to "maybe we shouldn't be killing black people for being black" is "but what about white people? Let's ignore the murdered blacks and focus on whites, thanks", then you're just obviously racist. In a "you might keep your white pointy hood in the back of your closet, but you definitely own a hood" racist sense.

The only real alternative to #BlackLivesMatter is #BlackLivesDon'tMatter, or at least #BlackLivesMatterLessThanOtherLives. If you take issue with BLM, you support one of the other two attitudes. It's that fuckin' simple.

But won't somebody think of the white people.

[Elegiac]

That data needs the context of a list of crimes to compare, as there's huge disparities in racial distribution between crimes.

That's nice hun. The disparity in crime rate is already controlled for; when they say "likely", they mean "all other factors besides race being considered".

It's almost as if there are actual experts who have been studying this for shitsquillion decades at this point.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Except of course you were not charging someone with a crime, correctly or otherwise. You were being a pedant, and not even a correct one, in a thread about an extrajudicial killing, which makes it all the more morally dubious. Own it and hush now.

Correct, I did not charge someone with a crime. I was correcting someone who I thought was wrong. It is not OK to let people be wrong. In doing so, I learned that I was wrong. Now I can correct people who, like me, were wrong. Continuing to let people be wrong is not an acceptable path forward. I was not being a pedant. I was searching for truth. I have found it, and want others to see it too. You could be next, never know!

Would you advocate for people to protest for something that didn't happen? No, you wouldn't, if you are a decent human being. You would likely want people to be informed so they can make their own decisions.

[Trassk]

Shit, are we back to the origins of the BLM movement where we have to explain slowly, in loud voices, what "Black Lives Matter" stands for to a bunch of racist white folk who seem determined to be personally offended by the slogan without knowing what it fuckin means?

in its purest form, BLM is meant to represent a message that the lives of black people matter as they are a group that have been more oppressed then other racial groups, and so need representation and for a system to come into play that stops all forms of racism against them.

A positive message, one that in a good, happy world we would all hope for.

However, and heres the issue people don't want to mention because it breaks that narrative, just like any social group or movement, these groups end up being taken over by toxic people, egomaniacs, sociopaths, and any other number of deranged individuals, who warp and twist the original message said group stood for. And when enough toxic people become part of these groups and movements, they use these movements as a front to strike out against everyone else. Suddenly #blacklivesmatter becomes #fuckallwhitepeople.

And much like how in these current protests against brutality against black people in america, instead of those following the martin luther king mention of peaceful and productive protests, when those who follow this see the violent rioters who have come out with the non-violent protests, then the non-violent people don't say or do anything about the rioters and mods destroying the lives of innocent people, there homes and businesses, then it makes it look like the non-violent protests are on the same page as the rioters and looters.

Much like how people say cops who don't side with the protests are as much part of the problem and culpable as the cops who kill black americans, the same thing then applies to protesters who don't call out the riots and looters and those destroying society around them right now. If cops just trying to be good officers are culpable for this, then the protests are just as culpable for then riots if people want to go that far with it.

[Raetary]

why is it wrong to suggest that?

It's not.

But all lives aren't put at a fundamental disadvantage by a countries system and society.

A white man does not and will never, face the same sort of oppression and discrimination as a black man does.
A cis-het person does not and will never face the same sort of oppression and discrimination as a queer person does.
etc.
etc.

BLM is a movement that came to be to bring attention to the social and systemic issues black people are facing in the US.

ALM is a counter movement that doesn't actually perpetrate what its name says.
The movement exists to downplay and ignore the pleads of BLM and he movement is heavily used by white supremacists to get their despicable views across by trying to paint BLM in a terrible light.

By using #AllLivesMatter, you are either abnormally ignorant, or just a racist yourself.

[Elegiac]

I've seen people other than white people use it. Often against white people.

Lol, no you fucking haven't.

Again, the depths to which y'all will go just to avoid being wrong. It hurts the mind.

[ellieg]

I'm curious how you seem to be implying I'm a coward when you also take the stance that Democrat cities are crime infested and gang ridden.

Given that I choose to live in the latter environment, clearly I'm quite the badass and can confidently say I would have the decency to exercise restraint and not murder someone over a television. And no, I wouldn't call the cops for any reason. Actual emergencies are for the fire department.

What the fuck is a cop gonna do? Shoot me to make sure I'm already dead? Lol.

Lol id love to see you post where i stated "Democrat cities are crime infested and gang ridden."

So im in your house stealing your television as you say. You letting me take it or you gonna tell me to drop it? And when I dont drop it, realize you are home, and try to beat the fuck out of you, stab you, or shoot you, whats your move then? Be a "badass" and subdue me hand to hand? lmao. How about when youre a 85 year old grandma, or a man in a wheel chair, or a small female? Should they have to "exercise restraint" and not kill me as well? Or can they realize a grown ass man broke into their house to commit felonies and just shoot me before they find out which particular felonies i was gonna commit?

Get over yourself haha.

[Kathandira]

It's the kinda thing someone should say once, be corrected about, and never repeat. But we see it continually repeated.

That is how it worked for me. I said something stupid, I was spoken with about it, and I don't say it anymore because of how incredibly insensitive, and honestly disrespectful it is.

[ellieg]

if someone broke into my home i would get out of there and call the police. i'm not sticking around with someone i don't know in my home.

Im personally pulling out my gun and waiting for them to be stupid enough to walk through the door of my room.

[Pannonian]

I mean I have been a victim but clearly it's not the same as the problem in the US and being shot for it or racially profiled. Also she wasn't my friend, I wish

But no I get it. Sometimes we have to be educated.

I will not deny that eastern europeans are faced with racism, sadly i can see it in my own country much more than to any people with african descent (for demographic reasons most likely), and it's definitely something that needs more of a focus, as it's kind of overlooked too often.

So no, my comment was not about you never been victimized by racism, it was targeted at your comment "oh no, but i am racist" which to me sounded a bit like that - if not: my apologies.

[Elegiac]

However, and heres the issue people don't want to mention because it breaks that narrative

I'm sorry, the existence of extremist organizations "breaks the narrative of a movement protesting that there is racial injustice in the US that should be addressed"?

Yeah, maybe to white people, but not in reality. I know it's you Billy Santoro.

[Belize]

Yes, I have.

Prove it. I can't be hard to find if it's ass common as you say.

[Endus]

So, that's how it happens without any extant racism. That isn't to say that there isn't racism, it's only to say that racism isn't necessarily the biggest factor or even a big factor at play here. The biggest factor is commitment of crimes.

Your homework, then, is to decide which of the two following statements you want to believe;

1> That those minority groups are just genetically, biologically, inherently more prone to being criminals and using drugs, and thus it's not the system that's racist, it's their race that's inferior (which, of course, is obviously, blatantly, overtly racist).

2> That the societal system is unjust and has left some groups in demographically disadvantaged positions, systemically, which inevitably produces such outcomes, particularly when combined with a similarly-unjust law enforcement infrastructure produced by those same societal and historical pressures (in which case, you're admitting that those numbers are because of racism, and that your post was in error).

Those are basically the only two options you've got, bucko.

[Egomaniac]

Lol, no you fucking haven't.

Again, the depths to which y'all will go just to avoid being wrong. It hurts the mind.

I've seen non-whites use it as well. It doesn't change anything though. "All lives matter" is, at best, entirely missing the god damn point and is passively racist.

[Elegiac]

Lol id love to see you post where i stated "Democrat cities are crime infested and gang ridden."

So im in your house stealing your television as you say. You letting me take it or you gonna tell me to drop it? And when I dont drop it, realize you are home, and try to beat the fuck out of you, stab you, or shoot you, whats your move then? Be a "badass" and subdue me hand to hand? lmao. How about when youre a 85 year old grandma, or a man in a wheel chair, or a small female? Should they have to "exercise restraint" and not kill me as well? Or can they realize a grown ass man broke into their house to commit felonies and just shoot me before they find out which particular felonies i was gonna commit?

Get over yourself haha.

Uh, if there's a strange person in my house that I'm fearful of?

I'm grabbing my cat and getting the fuck out. I'm not the sort of chud that thinks I have the ability to turn into Last Action Hero when the limit of my professional shooting ability is putting holes in targets of Hillary Clinton.

There is no material possession that I own worth more than a person's life.

[Pannonian]

I've seen non-whites use it as well. It doesn't change anything though. "All lives matter" is, at best, entirely missing the god damn point and is passively racist.

It's as if context mattered...

If i say it in response to BLM: racist

If i say it in response to some MMO-C shitposter who wants all grandparents to die for the economy: a good point

shouting it out on the street: pointless


Context...