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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinaa View Post
    Personally I think the best things in BfA were added after 8.1.5.
    Nazjatar, Mechagon were reasonably fun daily questing areas in 8.2 and Horrific Visions are the most fun thing in the entire expansion & they were added in 8.3.
    8.2 was legitimately among the best patches WoW had ever, if not THE best.

  2. #82
    This is what happens after taking long absences from the game. Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is. If you truly like the game, you will put in the time and effort to catch up, if you don't then you might as well "re" unsub again.

  3. #83
    Well! I have to agree, gathering arena cap for essence isn’t what a pve player wants, but this BIS shitlist they put online in 2020. likenthere is only 1 way to play a spec. Wake up. You don’t have to grind anything

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    This is what I don't understand myself. I was away for 4 months during the first year in BfA, then came back and was just excited to log in again and had stuff to do and catch up on. I am not sure what kind of game people expect WoW to be anymore.
    After many such threads I think that such people just feel like paying the sub should entitle them to be literal gods in the game. They don't want to improve the power of their characters they want to BE powerful.

    Especially with PvPers we constantly see this demand. They do not actually want to play the game, they want to jump in and PvP and that is just not how the game works. PvErs have to gear and upgrade to raid and to do M+, demanding that PvPers skip this all and get to do their endgame is quite arrogant. But considering most pure PvPers consider PvE content beneath them, that is quite in character.

  5. #85
    The only grindy part is to unlock essences/traits/cape which in the end is not a terrible grind compared to past stuff in earlier expansions.
    As for gearing, my friend who has never played retail before got over 460 Ilvl in less than a week just spamming low mythic+, how can you say this is not faster than old systems with honor and badges?
    Gearing through conquest is shit I give you that but gearing as an end goal has never been faster than now.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    After many such threads I think that such people just feel like paying the sub should entitle them to be literal gods in the game. They don't want to improve the power of their characters they want to BE powerful.

    Especially with PvPers we constantly see this demand. They do not actually want to play the game, they want to jump in and PvP and that is just not how the game works. PvErs have to gear and upgrade to raid and to do M+, demanding that PvPers skip this all and get to do their endgame is quite arrogant. But considering most pure PvPers consider PvE content beneath them, that is quite in character.
    Well to be fair, that's one of the reasons why MOBAs and eventually Battle Royales rose to prominence, while WoW and MMOs as a whole declined.

    Someone back in mid to late 2000s realized that you don't have to do menial crap to prepare to having fun, you can instead jump right in and have that fun right away. It is a very valid point is why 2020 is the way it is for worse and for the better too.

    It's just WoW is not such a game and people have hard time realizing that.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well to be fair, that's one of the reasons why MOBAs and eventually Battle Royales rose to prominence, while WoW and MMOs as a whole declined.

    Someone back in mid to late 2000s realized that you don't have to do menial crap to prepare to having fun, you can instead jump right in and have that fun right away. It is a very valid point is why 2020 is the way it is for worse and for the better too.

    It's just WoW is not such a game and people have hard time realizing that.
    It is probably a mark of the changing times yes. Working for something is going out of fashion, because the millenial crowd demands instant gratification if they so much as push a button. It does not bode well for our society.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    8.2 was legitimately among the best patches WoW had ever, if not THE best.
    I really liked the content it brought but personally I thought it was too much. I was probably playing 10 hours per day for the first few weeks because with Mechagon, Nazjatar (all the daily stuff that came with those) and everything else it just felt like too much. Personally I like it more if there's only 1 new daily hub per patch. But with that said I definitely think it was a great patch.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It is probably a mark of the changing times yes. Working for something is going out of fashion, because the millenial crowd demands instant gratification if they so much as push a button. It does not bode well for our society.
    Frankly? I think your notion is a bunch of baloney.

    Games are entertainment, it's totally ok to have games that offer instant access to fun as opposed to mandating a chain of uneventful activities on a way to having fun. If anything realization of these simple truths bodes well for our society, because people suddenly start opening their minds and realizing you don't have to do mundane shit to achieve your goals.

    MMOs in that respect got stuck in the past and are paying the price for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ultimately, I think the faster some people realize that it's ok to not turn "entertainment" and "recreation" into "work" - the better for everyone. But that's a topic outside the scope of this thread.

    WoW is lost on that, simply because it's a 2004 game setup in 2004 mindset and it won't suddenly become a MOBA with 15 minutes flat of leveling and power gathering phase before you are at the pinnacle.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It is probably a mark of the changing times yes. Working for something is going out of fashion, because the millenial crowd demands instant gratification if they so much as push a button. It does not bode well for our society.
    May be that's because games exist to have fun, not to be 2nd job? May be that's ok to play game, that is more like job, if you're kid. But it's not ok for adults, who already have jobs. There is age, when you realize, how economy actually works. You do your job, thing, you can do the best, earn money and then trade with other people, who do the same. Everybody wins. I.e. you don't have to "work for" and "earn" everything. If you want something, but you can't "work for" or "earn" it - you can just buy it. That's, how adults' logic works. If you can't afford game, that is 2nd job - just buy things via money, you've earned via your real-life job. Game doesn't allow you to do this? It goes to hell, you know.

  11. #91
    As a returning / new character, you've got a lot of things to do at max level.
    But honestly, it isn't that terrible.

    - The necklace will go straight to 80 in less than a week doing the questlines / emissaries.
    - Azerite gear can be obtained relatively quickly for a good ilvl. BIS Azerite gear will require more time.
    - Gear catchup is kind of fast. You can ben 440+ in less than 3 days, 460 in less than 2 weeks, which puts you above a vast fraction of the players, honestly.
    - Corruptions : they used to be the major culprit, but now you will earn currency doing activities you're doing anyway for other purposes to buy them. So there is not an additionnal grind here.
    - Legendary Cloak : The "grind" here is to do 3 assault per week, and maybe the minor vision. It's the most time-gated catchup through vessels, but that's only fair from my point of view, you will eventually catchup in the long term, but the difference isn't that huge.
    - Essences : If you go on the first guide, just check your 3 BIS essences, and farm for only that, you can be upset by the time it take. However, even if yes, there are outlier, it's pretty quick to obtain 4 essences rank 2/3 which will provide a major boost to your character.
    If an essence is a HUGE mandatory for your spec (looking at you, Memory of Lucid dream), optimise your farm to obtain it more quickly, and that's it. The Rank 3 of Memory of Lucid Dream, for exemple, can be obtained in 5 days, but you'll see a lot of players complaining about the 3 weeks it took them.

    Having a character mostly up-to-date, with working essences, is not that big of a deal. If you're aiming to obtain full BIS Azerite Pieces / BIS Essences / BIS Corruptions / BIS Trinkets, yes, it will take you a LOT of time. But you can narrow the gap pretty easily.

    And, what's the alternative ?
    If we go back in a WOW-era where at the end of an expac, you'll run one raid et few instances, and you're patched up, how do you think the community will consider the expansion with the mindset of 2020 ? Look at Warlord of Draenor.
    I don't mind having to play to progress my character. It's a RPG-based game, not a MOBA-based game.

    The point where I can agree is "I don't want to play this content to obtain this reward which is mandatory". I can feel you, but that's how WOW is working now, and has worked in the past (PVE gear better than PVP gear for PVP has always being a thing a moment or another), and will work in the future.
    Last edited by Felkor; 2020-05-27 at 12:04 PM.

  12. #92
    It’s why I prefer classic until shadowlands. An upgrade is an upgrade and I don’t need to juggle 5 different systems to stay relevant. Systems, btw, that aren’t permanent and are just rented per expansion... again. Zzzz. Bad game design

  13. #93
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    So I quit playing around 8.1.5 because well the game sucked lets be honest.

    I wanted to come back to kill some time just doing arenas with my buddy, only to find out that to even stand a chance in pvp I basically have to do max level questing (which i despise) for 10-15+ hours just to stand any chance in pvp on ONE CHARACTER (I play lots of alts)

    WTF happened to this game? Why are they make it so difficult and grindy for people who just want to pvp and not do any questing get back into the game?
    The problem is largely that PVP and PVE can't really co-exist in MMOs, one or the other will always have the spotlight, and in WoW that's PVE, and it's always been a PVE focused game regardless of how much PVP happens or is available. PVE being the focus, it gets most of the new stuff including anything power related. If your main focus is PVP, I'd recommend not playing a PVE based game with a PVP side game.

    It goes both ways though, most classes I played needed Conflict and Strife, an essence that requires grinding PVP, and I'd rather punch myself in the crotch than take part in WoWs pvp for more than like 15 minutes to get a free piece of gear on an alt. It's awful.

    I'm curious, how could Blizzard implement a PVE based power increasing system, and make it not detrimental for new players without it or something PVPers may want? With so many specs and abilities, synergy with items is bound to happen, and any power gain is going to put returning/new players further behind, but it's necessary to keep the game going.

    Also, if you only want to play half the content, you should only expect to get half of the stuff that's available through it. Simple as that. Except in WoW, PVE is about 95% of the content so, yeah. The trend of reps/power locked behind world quests/dailies/weeklies and all that is only going to continue, Blizzard doesn't want people to move back into the game as easily anymore as odd as that sounds, the game is designed to keep players enticed with a bunch of carrots on sticks instead of just feeding them, and make them reluctant to leave so they don't fall behind, and make it so returning players get a slow but steady stream of dopamine releasing power increases instead of just grinding it all out in a night or two, so they stay subbed for longer because all that dopamine is locked behind daily quests.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-05-27 at 12:28 PM.

  14. #94
    its kinda how wow has always worked.. if you dont play for a year, you cant just jump back in at be on a even playingfield immediately.. theres tons of catch up, so youll get the stuff A LOT faster than those you played the whole year you didnt.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Felkor View Post
    As a returning / new character, you've got a lot of things to do at max level.
    But honestly, it isn't that terrible.

    - The necklace will go straight to 80 in less than a week doing the questlines / emissaries.
    - Azerite gear can be obtained relatively quickly for a good ilvl. BIS Azerite gear will require more time.
    - Gear catchup is kind of fast. You can ben 440+ in less than 3 days, 460 in less than 2 weeks, which puts you above a vast fraction of the players, honestly.
    - Corruptions : they used to be the major culprit, but now you will earn currency doing activities you're doing anyway for other purposes to buy them. So there is not an additionnal grind here.
    - Legendary Cloak : The "grind" here is to do 3 assault per week, and maybe the minor vision. It's the most time-gated catchup through vessels, but that's only fair from my point of view, you will eventually catchup in the long term, but the difference isn't that huge.
    - Essences : If you go on the first guide, just check your 3 BIS essences, and farm for only that, you can be upset by the time it take. However, even if yes, there are outlier, it's pretty quick to obtain 4 essences rank 2/3 which will provide a major boost to your character.
    If an essence is a HUGE mandatory for your spec (looking at you, Memory of Lucid dream), optimise your farm to obtain it more quickly, and that's it. The Rank 3 of Memory of Lucid Dream, for exemple, can be obtained in 5 days, but you'll see a lot of players complaining about the 3 weeks it took them.

    Having a character mostly up-to-date, with working essences, is not that big of a deal. If you're aiming to obtain full BIS Azerite Pieces / BIS Essences / BIS Corruptions / BIS Trinkets, yes, it will take you a LOT of time. But you can narrow the gap pretty easily.

    And, what's the alternative ?
    If we go back in a WOW-era where at the end of an expac, you'll run one raid et few instances, and you're patched up, how do you think the community will consider the expansion with the mindset of 2020 ? Look at Warlord of Draenor.
    I don't mind having to play to progress my character. It's a RPG-based game, not a MOBA-based game.

    The point where I can agree is "I don't want to play this content to obtain this reward which is mandatory". I can feel you, but that's how WOW is working now, and has worked in the past (PVE gear better than PVP gear for PVP has always being a thing a moment or another), and will work in the future.
    Theoretically. My practice doesn't confirm it.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    Because they don’t care about those people. They only care about people who compulsively log in every day to fill a bar. That is Blizzard’s target audience now.
    Oh you mean the customers they have the greater chance of retaining? Well shit
    Desktop: Zotac 1080 TI, I7 7700k, 16gb Ram, 256gb SSD + 1TB HDD
    Laptop: Zotac 2070 MaxQ, I7 8750, 32gb RAM, 500gb SSD + 2TB SSD
    Main Game: Warcraft Classic

    Haters gonna hate

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Is it though?

    So you want to tell me that if Blizzard would not add any meaningful content for a year plus then they would have more subs?

    Where do I insert Juan Joya Borja laughing meme here again?
    It is and classic is probably keeping WoW afloat

    Imagine how low the subs would be without classic propping it up

  18. #98
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It is and classic is probably keeping WoW afloat

    Imagine how low the subs would be without classic propping it up
    Imagine being this delusional. Covid is propping up both.

    Classic is also still unlocking content. It's not "New", but it kind of is. It's been unavailable, and now it's back.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Oh you mean the customers they have the greater chance of retaining? Well shit
    I honestly wonder what wow's playerbase looks like these days. I can't imagine the attrition rate looks good unless style of playing really did take off in legion.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexSignal View Post
    Typical MMORPG. That's the fuck kind of game.
    I don't know what you expected, but sounds like MMO was what you got.
    I’m really confused by the number of people saying that things that are relatively new for wow are standard features.

    I played wow seriously from late Wrath to now. This type of content, which I call “boring daily quests” was only a part of the game in:

    First patch mop, when it was hated and gotten rid of by next patch

    Legion, until you got the right legendaries.

    And they’ve never been as critical to player power as they are now. In Legion and MoP you could conceivably progress your char just as far without dailies by progressing in other ways. In BFA it’s grind essences or you suck.

    Yet this guy says it is “typical”. It’s a departure from what wow has been for a long time. Not to mention it’s just shit. What’s the redeeming quality of this content? Can you argue that it’s fun? Because I for the life me don’t get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

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