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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Frankly? I think your notion is a bunch of baloney.

    Games are entertainment, it's totally ok to have games that offer instant access to fun as opposed to mandating a chain of uneventful activities on a way to having fun. If anything realization of these simple truths bodes well for our society, because people suddenly start opening their minds and realizing you don't have to do mundane shit to achieve your goals.

    MMOs in that respect got stuck in the past and are paying the price for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    May be that's because games exist to have fun, not to be 2nd job? May be that's ok to play game, that is more like job, if you're kid. But it's not ok for adults, who already have jobs. There is age, when you realize, how economy actually works. You do your job, thing, you can do the best, earn money and then trade with other people, who do the same. Everybody wins. I.e. you don't have to "work for" and "earn" everything. If you want something, but you can't "work for" or "earn" it - you can just buy it. That's, how adults' logic works. If you can't afford game, that is 2nd job - just buy things via money, you've earned via your real-life job. Game doesn't allow you to do this? It goes to hell, you know.
    By that logic any and all sports are not for recreation, since in most of them you try to get better and you do put effort in before you reach the point where it is really fun, you train and invest time and sweat to improve. You do not just join a team for say football and immediatedly expect to win against a team of pros just because you paid the entrance fee. You do not come into team and when the coach tells you to do sit-ups throw a tantrum because you only came to have fun.

    Both sports and games exist to have fun (and both have the option to go professional) but that does not mean that you get to do them without effort.

    If you just want pure entertainment without lifting a finger there are movies to watch and crisps to eat. Which is fine enough, but does it hold the same engagement as a game that gives me the option to apply myself as much as I want to improve my characters as much as I want? Nope, definately not.

    It's fine to skip the daily grind to do other things, I do it most days as well by now. What I just find ridiculously is the demand of people to be able to skip everything they do not like and receive the same rewards as the part of the game population that does everything. More effort should absolutely be rewarded more, lazyness should never be rewarded.
    What the OP is asking here is basically that everyone that played the last 1,5 years gets shafted because he feels he deserves to be rewarded for the supreme effort of logging in.


    And if playing the game is such a bother for you that you feel it is like a second job, then it is probably time to move on. I am working full time and I still managed to gear my main character to Mythic level with BiS Essences and BiS Corruption and I had fun doing it, it was certainly not the same as being at work.
    Last edited by Raisei; 2020-05-27 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #102
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Only PVP? Why would you only play a single minigame in WoW? Have you considered Pet Battles instead?
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Legion, until you got the right legendaries.
    [...]
    In BFA it’s grind essences or you suck.
    Its funny how there is such a cognitive dissonance here. Legendaries in Legion were entirely RNG, and if you didn't have them, you also sucked. And yet, you present it as something that was easily completed.

    On the other hand in BfA, essences are mostly deterministic and can be fully targeted and farmed with purpose. And once you have them, you are done. I haven't done dailies in months.

    So, at worst its similar to farming something and being done once you have it, and at best its actually better, since you can directly farm them without any RNG.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Yeah, um... you're ignoring the giant amount of work you have to do on essences and your cloak etc to be remotely competitive. Disingenuous post. And btw - see the post above. Cloak takes freaking forever when you ding at item level 260, you don't know your way around and have no azerite gear or essences to speak of.
    I've done it on freshly dinged characters, it's nowhere near that bad. If you're trying to do it at 260 that's your own fault when cheap 400 gear is available.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Well have fun grinding corruptions afterwards, especially if OP wants to be competitive in pvp. Because good luck without.
    Grinding =/= questing, the guy is complaining about questing.

    Honestly though, corruptions should have been deactivated in pvp, as well as azerite traits and gear in general, pvp should be purely about skill vs skill, not who has the most shinies.

  5. #105
    Ya, everyone was so psyched when you could purchase corruption and i absolutely hate it. I ended up running visions 11 times last week just to get two expedients. Now that you get echoes from everything its like having to start the xpac all over with the amount of farming/grinding you have to do. I remember when endgame raiding was that time to chill before the next xpac came out.

    Now my guild is working on mythic n'zoth, i have practically all BIS gear and now with this corruption shit i feel like im back at the bottom again and having to do dumb shit like daily quests every day to be able to catch back up. This was just a dumb thing to add in at the end of the xpac.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    Because they don’t care about those people. They only care about people who compulsively log in every day to fill a bar. That is Blizzard’s target audience now.
    Their target is MAUs. Not people who log in every day... do you not pay attention to anything blizzard does?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    PvP and PvE should be largely separate. A player can enjoy both, but often players lean much more towards enjoying one rather than the other. Forcing people to do both only cause people to lose interest.

    Imagine if the game forced everyone to PvP. But it doesn't, does it? PvE'rs would have a field day crying about that.
    sure it does.

    right now several specs have their best azerite from high rated pvp.
    right now pvp is the best way to farm echoes.
    right now a bis essence for a lot of people is from honor grind or arena rating.
    and at the beginning of the patch conquest cap was pretty mandatory for pvers too.

    sure people complain about that, but by and large they also just suck it up and get it over with cause they know that's just how the game is from time to time.

    and yeah, pvp usually gets the short end of the stick in this regard, but it's primarily a pve game at the end of the day.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2020-05-27 at 01:44 PM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    PvP and PvE should be largely separate. A player can enjoy both, but often players lean much more towards enjoying one rather than the other. Forcing people to do both only cause people to lose interest.

    Imagine if the game forced everyone to PvP. But it doesn't, does it? PvE'rs would have a field day crying about that.

    Who in the hell is exactly FORCING you to get the cloak ? Let me answer that for you. LITERALLY NO ONE. That's who.


    Only thing that would force you to get it, is if you were doing Ny'alotha last 2 bosses so you needed it to not get mind controlled, but as you stated multiple times that you only PVP, I don't see an issue.

    Wanna know what the real situation is ? You came back after almost a year of not playing, and your entitled lazy ass wants to have all the things that other players have been collecting and farming for, just so you can be on "par" with others in PVP. Why would you care about that, pvp scaling will just adjust your damage anyway so it doesn't even fucking matter in the first place.

    You want it because other players have it. No other reason. As you seem like a casual pleb, I doubt that you're pushing for high pvp ranks, which is the case when I'd understand you whining about getting the cloak. My guess is you're just a random bg spammer, and please correct me if I'm wrong, so just get a random epic cloak and pretend that the legendary one doesn't exist. You obviously don't care about the game, why would you care if your cloak is purple or range.

    Also, if you can't manage to finish one lousy quest line, maybe you should reconsider what kind of games you really want to be playing. Imagine playing an mmo and crying about completing a single quest line after coming back to the game after ONE YEAR.

  9. #109
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    PvP and PvE should be largely separate. A player can enjoy both, but often players lean much more towards enjoying one rather than the other. Forcing people to do both only cause people to lose interest.

    Imagine if the game forced everyone to PvP. But it doesn't, does it? PvE'rs would have a field day crying about that.
    The game does "force" PVE players to PVP, but only in the same way that it forces PVP players to PVE. Tons of PVE players had to grind PVP for essences because they were BiS, and it likely took a bit longer than the 15 hours you're complaining about.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-05-27 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    There was a time when returning to the game after a year just meant you had to grind gear to catch up. There was new PvE content but it wasn't necessary to do because it didn't introduce its own systems of adding power to your character that you could ONLY get by doing that content. I could easily just farm up gear I needed from pvping or dungeons and never had to spend 15 hours doing max level boring ass questing.
    The last time this was the case was Cata. Sure, there was a time, but that time passed a looong while ago.

    And ofc, you still had the PvP gear to grind out before you had a chance even back then.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    4 hours per char I want to pvp on is 4 hours more than any amount of max level questing I have any desire to do right now.
    Perhaps WoW Retail is not the game for you. There hasn't been a time in the past 3-4 years where you could just dive into PvP and only do that in order to progress. Heck, even Windwalker Monks have to have 1000 rating before they can even be competitive in PvE.

    Just put in the work. An MMO is not supposed to be a pick up and play game like Overwatch or Fortnite.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It is probably a mark of the changing times yes. Working for something is going out of fashion, because the millenial crowd demands instant gratification if they so much as push a button. It does not bode well for our society.
    People throw millennial around like crazy nowadays, but most people perusing this forum are millennials...

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexSignal View Post
    Oh I see, so "Kill 10 boars"-quests in vanilla were somehow engaging and immersive character progression"? And now quests are somehow boring?

    Ok.
    Several obvious major differences between those quests and now:

    1. Those quests were done one time. There is some minimal value in exploring a world and completing tasks. That is lost when you have to do the same one ten times over, as you have to do in modern wow.

    2. Those quests were designed to be done at a specific level, and you did them while you were at that level. Now you might have people at item level 300 doing them and people at 470 doing the same one. It's stupid.

    3. Those were not time gated... you did them once as part of a big leveling grind where the feeling of progression happened every day, instead of the "play 20 minutes then a big stop sign appears" setup we see today.

    4. Because those "kill 10 boars" quests were all about filling an experience bar, and there was more than one way to fill that bar, you could actually explore a bit instead of today when you are going for one specific thing and you have to do that specific activity or no dice. In vanilla this wasn't as good as it got later, when you got more options, but it's just different.

    5. The world layout was much better. Nazjatar is a nightmare.

    And hey, maybe there were some grinds like that in vanilla, I didn't play then. But they didn't exist in late wrath (other than the 2 enchants which were easy), cata, most of mop, all of wod, and they were less critical in Legion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Its funny how there is such a cognitive dissonance here. Legendaries in Legion were entirely RNG, and if you didn't have them, you also sucked. And yet, you present it as something that was easily completed.

    On the other hand in BfA, essences are mostly deterministic and can be fully targeted and farmed with purpose. And once you have them, you are done. I haven't done dailies in months.

    So, at worst its similar to farming something and being done once you have it, and at best its actually better, since you can directly farm them without any RNG.
    Sure, legendaries were also awful, but you could choose what content you wanted to do. In BFA you HAVE to do whatever the one thing is that gives you the essence you want. You can't just play the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    5. The world layout was much better. Nazjatar is a nightmare.
    nazjatar has one of the best vertical design of any zone ever. between gliders, the consumable movement items from the zone itself and all the little shortcuts it has you can move around really efficiently.

    real shame they allowed flying in there, it was one of the best designed zones for no-flying.

  15. #115
    Here the problem is clear.
    People complain about too little to do and others complain about too much to do.

    Sorry to hear you had a bad time, but realize in life some times you will have problems that you can fix and sometimes you will have problems you can not fix.

    This is the former.

    Sadly, this game requires a lot of time and at times, a lot of research.
    Learn this lesson going forward and it will save you mental effort spent on this sort of thing.

    Every major patch that will come out will likely change the game severely from now on.
    If you plan on taking over a year off, you will have missed far too much to catch up quickly.

    Good for me, as a frequent player, bad for you.

    Do your best to learn from this in the future if you care to.
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  16. #116
    Mechagnome Rageadon's Avatar
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    Agree, its like 4 systems you need to catch up on + flying which forces you to play in 2 very boring zones,
    And the worst part is the ilvl jump, how often does blizz want to squis?
    no thank you, im waiting for shadowlands, enjoying classic in the meantime

  17. #117
    That's why there is no influx of new players. Blizz knows and doesn't care anymore. They will milk whatever players are left and that's it.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Babadoo View Post
    That's why there is no influx of new players. Blizz knows and doesn't care anymore. They will milk whatever players are left and that's it.
    This is the most wrong thing ever. Most of the playerbase is now either legion babies or BfA babies. Hell the #1 US M+ Healer, started playing this expansion.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    nazjatar has one of the best vertical design of any zone ever. between gliders, the consumable movement items from the zone itself and all the little shortcuts it has you can move around really efficiently.

    real shame they allowed flying in there, it was one of the best designed zones for no-flying.
    I just die a lot by falling and use wowhead when I can't find something. Fuck that place. Fuck it hard. I'm like 4 days from being done with it forever, thank christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    2 major patches happened with their own systems and gear.

    I sympathize, but really, you can't expect return after a year and have nothing change. It's not SWTOR.

    The upside is that catching up is not terrible, the downside - until then you are 2nd class citizen
    Couldn't have said it better.

    To the OP, I mean this is an MMO and when you leave an MMO for an extended period you're just behind. The recent changes make it that much worse. It would've been much easier if you left after say BoD and came back I in time for visions.

    You're also at the very tail end of the xpac. Can't expect to come in and make something of yourself with only about 6 months left.

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