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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by xblubbx View Post
    What's funny tho is that you'll find even more threads with the opposite extreme like "I'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR A WEEK AND I'M WEARING ALREADY MAX GEAR LOLZ WHAT A DUMB GAME"
    Both are true and contribute to why the game feels so terrible.

    The grind is terrible, but it's not linked to gear. You get gear way too quickly, but you have to keep grinding the obsolete content like Nazjatar and Mechagon well after you outgear it.

    If they got rid of the random power grinds and made gear much harder to attain, that's a better game.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Echoes has been recent addition and I agree that can be a farm, Farming AP has been retired in 8.2. Farming essences is not a thing for most of them. The only real one it BotE rank 3. Other than that it's just playing the game to get it. Cloak farm is another thing where you either do daily quests every day and gain 4 levels per week or do 3 assaults per week and gain 3 levels. It's not great but again, it's progression system and visions are actually cool. I do understand where they are coming from kind of, but otherwise they would be screaming "wtf I came back after 2 major patches and there is like 2 hours of content to do REEE" and you can't argue that it would not be a case. There were people who said whole 8.3 is 3 hours of content when it came out.
    Like I said earlier in the thread I admit AP and Azerite weren't the best examples. Essences are still things that force you down specific areas to unlock the things you want. Cloak as well is a different avenue where the choice is literally "do visions and upgrade cloak or don't".

    To clarify though, my point is more that you can't do one singular activity and work on all systems concurrently (like in Legion), you have to make a physical choice about what you want to focus on.

  3. #123
    That makes more sense now.
    It's a positive that echoes can be farmed via visions, pvp or m+ or from raids even, o the other hand I kinda liked essences being on different activities. Maybe strife was the least enjoyable but others were ok. I would have not ran so many bgs otherwise and I found it rather enjoyable Tho I speak for myself. My hunter friend hates BG's. It literally took her 9 months to get blood and I was forcing her. What many has said before - essences should be the best for the activity you gained if from. Blood being bis for M+ is totally not the best design and raid essence should not be bis in pvp

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    I feel like it would be better for the company and for players to have everything reset weekly rather than daily. If you model the desired rate of play as three hours per day, then you just need to have enough repeatable content to give around 21 hours per week of activities. You can then let the players decide when they want to do those activities. The reset wouldn't be on a specific day, but things would drop off after seven days rather than 24 hours (dailies) or three days (emissaries).

    Basically, each day, new content would unlock at the normal daily reset time. The difference is that you would have seven days to do the activity before it resets.

    If we look at the WQ system, there is Proudmoore, Drustvar, Storm's Wake, Tortollan, Champions of Azeroth, War Effort, and Waveblade. That's seven factions, so you get to do each of the emissary quests once per week, but you only have three days to get any single one done before you miss out on it for that week. In my design, you could choose to do all seven in the same day, then the next day the first one in the cycle would open up again. You could do one per day, or you could wait until all seven were available again. The same goes for repeatable quests.

    I would rather have the freedom to decide to play 3 hours per day, 21 hours in a single day, or somewhere in-between, and I think it would be better for Blizzard too.

    As for things like daily resets on heroic dungeons, they could build up like your loot roll tokens or the horrific vision vessels. You get one unlock token per day for each dungeon, with a cap of seven per dungeon. You could choose to run the dungeon seven times in a single day, but then you would have to wait until the next day to run it again. The point is that you don't have to run the dungeon every single day to avoid missing out on loot.

    Raids and mythic dungeons are already once per week, so there's nothing needed to change for them.

    Imagine if WoW was designed this way. You could decide that Tuesday is emissary day where you do all seven emissary quests. Wednesday and Thursday are dungeon days where you run each (non-LFD) heroic dungeon seven times. That has you ready for Friday and Saturday raid nights. Then you can set aside Sunday and Monday for PvP, questing, or whatever. If you're a masochist, you could do everything just on the weekend, and not even play WoW at all during the week.

    The only real difference these changes would make is that you don't miss out on anything if you skip logging in for a few days.
    You know, suddenly mop's dev philosophy hits you hard in the face, and it hurts. At that time we had no idea what their words meant tho, we were like are they high or something?
    Remember the devs saying at the time of mop "we don't want you to have to log in every day, here, you can cap your badges in a week, even from pet battles!"
    And then the pandaren saying "slow down, life is to be savored!"
    God, if we knew what is coming with Legion. Maybe it was a warning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Echoes has been recent addition and I agree that can be a farm, Farming AP has been retired in 8.2. Farming essences is not a thing for most of them. The only real one it BotE rank 3. Other than that it's just playing the game to get it. Cloak farm is another thing where you either do daily quests every day and gain 4 levels per week or do 3 assaults per week and gain 3 levels. It's not great but again, it's progression system and visions are actually cool. I do understand where they are coming from kind of, but otherwise they would be screaming "wtf I came back after 2 major patches and there is like 2 hours of content to do REEE" and you can't argue that it would not be a case. There were people who said whole 8.3 is 3 hours of content when it came out.
    How is AP farm not a thing on a fresh char? Your fresh level 120 starts with neck level 4-5. I'm not sure how much AP the "must to do" questlines give (opening up of nazjatar, getting the cloak), that you have to do anyways for essences and the cloak, but you can't just ignore your level 5 necklace and not do anyrthing about it. And if you want to level it, it's not like legion, when a handful of AP wq basically maxed it out for you.
    Last edited by Lei; 2020-05-27 at 05:18 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I literally had to do weeks of PvP for my BiS essences. I like the systems you have a problem with because it gives me something to do. I don't want a game where i am done in 2 weeks.
    But that is taste i guess. The alt thing is annoying though.
    Your BEST IN SLOT, but they aren't required for being competitive, you're just looking to min max. I HAVE to do hours and hours of questing just to stand any chance at all in pvp. even with out considering BIS gear.

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    Yes, because it is a VIDEO GAME FOR ENTERTAINMENT, not a second job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    its kinda how wow has always worked.. if you dont play for a year, you cant just jump back in at be on a even playingfield immediately.. theres tons of catch up, so youll get the stuff A LOT faster than those you played the whole year you didnt.
    Like I said in my OP, a grind has always been necessary, buts its a grind you could always do just by running dungeons or pvping. You never had to progress through 5 different quest lines of boring ass max level story to unlock systems that increase your characters power directly. That is what is dumb.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    How is AP farm not a thing on a fresh char? Your fresh level 120 starts with neck level 4-5. I'm not sure how much AP the "must to do" questlines give (opening up of nazjatar, getting the cloak), that you have to do anyways for essences and the cloak, but you can't just ignore your level 5 necklace and not do anyrthing about it. And if you want to level it, it's not like legion, when a handful of AP wq basically maxed it out for you.
    you get neck 50 for free from doing the nazjatar intro iirc. and then it's like 1k per level till pretty darn close to 80. so that's like 1-2 weeks without really trying.

    you have to do something fairly unusual to get an azerite piece you can't unlock (after you do the free 50 quest).

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post





    How is AP farm not a thing on a fresh char? Your fresh level 120 starts with neck level 4-5. I'm not sure how much AP the "must to do" questlines give (opening up of nazjatar, getting the cloak), that you have to do anyways for essences and the cloak, but you can't just ignore your level 5 necklace and not do anyrthing about it. And if you want to level it, it's not like legion, when a handful of AP wq basically maxed it out for you.
    As someone who just leveled up a fresh toon I can tell you this a fresh toon doesnt really start at level 5 due to the Nazjatar part of the neck chain where you unlock essences. That will bring u up to level 50 into the neck automaticly. After that by the time you get done with the cloak u will be around level 66ish in the neck. If you do emissaries to get more of a catch up in gear I got to level 77 neck between Monday when I hit 120 and today. And most of that is just from quest chains

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    As someone who just leveled up a fresh toon I can tell you this a fresh toon doesnt really start at level 5 due to the Nazjatar part of the neck chain where you unlock essences. That will bring u up to level 50 into the neck automaticly. After that by the time you get done with the cloak u will be around level 66ish in the neck. If you do emissaries to get more of a catch up in gear I got to level 77 neck between Monday when I hit 120 and today. And most of that is just from quest chains
    Fresh char means it has just dinged 2 minutes ago. They have a level 4-5 neck and 90k hp (no main to funnel benthic gear). I wasn't sure about Nazj, because I only opened it up on 2-3 characters, so seems like nazj drags the neck up. Good. Still it's not not a farm for the neck. Doing outdated reps and emissaries is farming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    you get neck 50 for free from doing the nazjatar intro iirc. and then it's like 1k per level till pretty darn close to 80. so that's like 1-2 weeks without really trying.

    you have to do something fairly unusual to get an azerite piece you can't unlock (after you do the free 50 quest).
    Can you read what my comment was an answer to? someone suggested that neck AP farm is not a thing anymore. If you have a fresh 120 with a neck level 4-5, then it's simply not true.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    Like I said in my OP, a grind has always been necessary, buts its a grind you could always do just by running dungeons or pvping. You never had to progress through 5 different quest lines of boring ass max level story to unlock systems that increase your characters power directly. That is what is dumb.
    post max level progression is the name of the game now. has been for a while and will stay for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Can you read what my comment was an answer to? someone suggested that neck AP farm is not a thing anymore. If you have a fresh 120 with a neck level 4-5, then it's simply not true.
    if you mean a fresh account instead of a fresh character than maybe, but even then it's not bad as nazjatar comes straight after unlocking WQs.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Did you read his damn post? He says PvP. What you can not expect is questing for 15 hours just to PvP. This azerite system is trash. Worse yet, we will have the same shit in shadowlands in a different form...

    Yes he did, and he gave a great reply.

    What YOU are not thinking about is the fact that there are NO PvP vendors, so OF COURSE he is going to have to do PvE content to get gear.
    He (and you) should be thankful that as of the most recent patch, it is now EASIER THAN EVER to catch up with gear.

    Honestly, he picked the perfect time to come back.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    f you mean a fresh account instead of a fresh character than maybe, but even then it's not bad as nazjatar comes straight after unlocking WQs.
    Well, players coming back is the topic which can mean different things of course. Chars that were left in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 etc, these characters' alts, or fresh acc.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrathian View Post
    Yes he did, and he gave a great reply.

    What YOU are not thinking about is the fact that there are NO PvP vendors, so OF COURSE he is going to have to do PvE content to get gear.
    He (and you) should be thankful that as of the most recent patch, it is now EASIER THAN EVER to catch up with gear.

    Honestly, he picked the perfect time to come back.
    Right, we should be thankful for not getting more grind and poorer game design. This sheep mentality is really shocking to me.

    His reply was quite poor, fyi.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I honestly wonder what wow's playerbase looks like these days. I can't imagine the attrition rate looks good unless style of playing really did take off in legion.
    No idea personally, I stopped my sub before the 2nd raid tier came in because I found the story trash. I was just stating to obvious
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    Haters gonna hate

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrathian View Post
    Yes he did, and he gave a great reply.

    What YOU are not thinking about is the fact that there are NO PvP vendors, so OF COURSE he is going to have to do PvE content to get gear.
    He (and you) should be thankful that as of the most recent patch, it is now EASIER THAN EVER to catch up with gear.

    Honestly, he picked the perfect time to come back.
    I disagree, nothing about the current content grind has me at all excited to come back. It "Might" be easier to catch up now than it was in 8.2 or 8.1, but its still way more ridiculous that it was to catch up in WoD or previous expansions that didn't have multiple different levels of character power tied behind multiple quest lines.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Fresh char means it has just dinged 2 minutes ago. They have a level 4-5 neck and 90k hp (no main to funnel benthic gear). I wasn't sure about Nazj, because I only opened it up on 2-3 characters, so seems like nazj drags the neck up. Good. Still it's not not a farm for the neck. Doing outdated reps and emissaries is farming.
    Here's where you went wrong: content is not outdated until you can't get anything new to progress your character's power from it.

  16. #136
    I'd a similar experience returning to the game myself. Hell, if it wasn't for my former guildies being so cool, I'd have been absolutely lost trying to decipher essences, corruptions, invasions & visions. It's a hell of a lot of system bloat to be faced with all at once!

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    I'd a similar experience returning to the game myself. Hell, if it wasn't for my former guildies being so cool, I'd have been absolutely lost trying to decipher essences, corruptions, invasions & visions. It's a hell of a lot of system bloat to be faced with all at once!
    regardless of the specifics of this particular OP, this is a thread i see popping up every few days - its certainly not a unique or isolated POV, and i share your opinion here - FAR too many systems that interact with systems that you need to complete very specific content to unlock other very specific content to obtain a very specific currency that only is obtainable on certain toons that can unlock certain abilities at certain times......i mean .....its a shambles really.

    Some people love this level of customization, but it has almost zero appeal to me, and every time they add another layer, i watch my friends list diminish a little more. I dont like corruption, i dont like essences, i dont like azerite traits, and i dont like pvp talents the way they are now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Here's where you went wrong: content is not outdated until you can't get anything new to progress your character's power from it.
    Here's where you went wrong: you tried to represent your opinion as fact.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Here's where you went wrong: you tried to represent your opinion as fact.
    I didn't know the definition of the word "outdated" was an opinion. If it can still give your character something you wouldn't otherwise have, it's not outdated.

    Nothing is truly outdated until you have every single permanent thing from it, and a route for gearing isn't outdated until there are no more upgrades to be had, so unless you have perfect corruption on all your gear, nothing that gives echoes is outdated.

    This is another argument born from trying everything possible to avoid playing the game. If you want to play the game, you do it. If you don't want to play the game, you really shouldn't play the game. No one is forcing you to play. It's incredibly selfish to ask the game to be changed to suit your needs. You do not have the right to ask that. This is not a cheeseburger. It's a piece of entertainment that millions of people play. You do not get to custom order entertainment as a regular customer.

    It's really not that complicated to figure out if you don't ignore what the game is telling you. The game gives it to you piece by piece specifically to keep from being overwhelming, but I could see how it would be overwhelming if you did everything to avoid learning it as you go and tried to learn everything at once.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    Good example of why the game is dying.
    Blame the WoD haters. "Where's the content?! There's nothing to do! Raid or die! The entire world is pointless!" Blizz was buried under so much of this pointless whining that they overcompensated by making sure you can never be done even on one toon. So the throngs who levelled tons of alts to raidlog in WoD were left flat footed and slapped in the face with the problem they caused. But of course such introspection is beyond most so they just pick a new thing to complain about. We've seen it before. "Wah world of dailycraft sucks!" We get almost no dailies in WoD. "Wah raid or die" We end up with a million alternate progression systems that WoW became as popular as it did because it didn't have, unlike UO or Everquest.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  20. #140
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Yeh I left during BoD so my gear is only liv 418, I dont have flying, dont have any essences or corruptions/cloak. Might as well just not even bother. Having fun with new ESO expansion that came out yesterday.

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