WTF happened after 8.1.5?

[Lei]

As someone who just leveled up a fresh toon I can tell you this a fresh toon doesnt really start at level 5 due to the Nazjatar part of the neck chain where you unlock essences. That will bring u up to level 50 into the neck automaticly. After that by the time you get done with the cloak u will be around level 66ish in the neck. If you do emissaries to get more of a catch up in gear I got to level 77 neck between Monday when I hit 120 and today. And most of that is just from quest chains

Fresh char means it has just dinged 2 minutes ago. They have a level 4-5 neck and 90k hp (no main to funnel benthic gear). I wasn't sure about Nazj, because I only opened it up on 2-3 characters, so seems like nazj drags the neck up. Good. Still it's not not a farm for the neck. Doing outdated reps and emissaries is farming.

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you get neck 50 for free from doing the nazjatar intro iirc. and then it's like 1k per level till pretty darn close to 80. so that's like 1-2 weeks without really trying.

you have to do something fairly unusual to get an azerite piece you can't unlock (after you do the free 50 quest).

Can you read what my comment was an answer to? someone suggested that neck AP farm is not a thing anymore. If you have a fresh 120 with a neck level 4-5, then it's simply not true.

[Hellobolis]

Like I said in my OP, a grind has always been necessary, buts its a grind you could always do just by running dungeons or pvping. You never had to progress through 5 different quest lines of boring ass max level story to unlock systems that increase your characters power directly. That is what is dumb.

post max level progression is the name of the game now. has been for a while and will stay for a while.

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Can you read what my comment was an answer to? someone suggested that neck AP farm is not a thing anymore. If you have a fresh 120 with a neck level 4-5, then it's simply not true.

if you mean a fresh account instead of a fresh character than maybe, but even then it's not bad as nazjatar comes straight after unlocking WQs.

[Eldrathian]

Did you read his damn post? He says PvP. What you can not expect is questing for 15 hours just to PvP. This azerite system is trash. Worse yet, we will have the same shit in shadowlands in a different form...

Yes he did, and he gave a great reply.

What YOU are not thinking about is the fact that there are NO PvP vendors, so OF COURSE he is going to have to do PvE content to get gear.
He (and you) should be thankful that as of the most recent patch, it is now EASIER THAN EVER to catch up with gear.

Honestly, he picked the perfect time to come back.

[Lei]

f you mean a fresh account instead of a fresh character than maybe, but even then it's not bad as nazjatar comes straight after unlocking WQs.

Well, players coming back is the topic which can mean different things of course. Chars that were left in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 etc, these characters' alts, or fresh acc.

[Kuntantee]

Yes he did, and he gave a great reply.

What YOU are not thinking about is the fact that there are NO PvP vendors, so OF COURSE he is going to have to do PvE content to get gear.
He (and you) should be thankful that as of the most recent patch, it is now EASIER THAN EVER to catch up with gear.

Honestly, he picked the perfect time to come back.

Right, we should be thankful for not getting more grind and poorer game design. This sheep mentality is really shocking to me.

His reply was quite poor, fyi.

[Rotted]

I honestly wonder what wow's playerbase looks like these days. I can't imagine the attrition rate looks good unless style of playing really did take off in legion.

No idea personally, I stopped my sub before the 2nd raid tier came in because I found the story trash. I was just stating to obvious

[Alcsaar]

Yes he did, and he gave a great reply.

What YOU are not thinking about is the fact that there are NO PvP vendors, so OF COURSE he is going to have to do PvE content to get gear.
He (and you) should be thankful that as of the most recent patch, it is now EASIER THAN EVER to catch up with gear.

Honestly, he picked the perfect time to come back.

I disagree, nothing about the current content grind has me at all excited to come back. It "Might" be easier to catch up now than it was in 8.2 or 8.1, but its still way more ridiculous that it was to catch up in WoD or previous expansions that didn't have multiple different levels of character power tied behind multiple quest lines.

[Shaetha]

Fresh char means it has just dinged 2 minutes ago. They have a level 4-5 neck and 90k hp (no main to funnel benthic gear). I wasn't sure about Nazj, because I only opened it up on 2-3 characters, so seems like nazj drags the neck up. Good. Still it's not not a farm for the neck. Doing outdated reps and emissaries is farming.

Here's where you went wrong: content is not outdated until you can't get anything new to progress your character's power from it.

[Toybox]

I'd a similar experience returning to the game myself. Hell, if it wasn't for my former guildies being so cool, I'd have been absolutely lost trying to decipher essences, corruptions, invasions & visions. It's a hell of a lot of system bloat to be faced with all at once!

[arkanon]

I'd a similar experience returning to the game myself. Hell, if it wasn't for my former guildies being so cool, I'd have been absolutely lost trying to decipher essences, corruptions, invasions & visions. It's a hell of a lot of system bloat to be faced with all at once!

regardless of the specifics of this particular OP, this is a thread i see popping up every few days - its certainly not a unique or isolated POV, and i share your opinion here - FAR too many systems that interact with systems that you need to complete very specific content to unlock other very specific content to obtain a very specific currency that only is obtainable on certain toons that can unlock certain abilities at certain times......i mean .....its a shambles really.

Some people love this level of customization, but it has almost zero appeal to me, and every time they add another layer, i watch my friends list diminish a little more. I dont like corruption, i dont like essences, i dont like azerite traits, and i dont like pvp talents the way they are now.

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Here's where you went wrong: content is not outdated until you can't get anything new to progress your character's power from it.

Here's where you went wrong: you tried to represent your opinion as fact.

[Shaetha]

Here's where you went wrong: you tried to represent your opinion as fact.

I didn't know the definition of the word "outdated" was an opinion. If it can still give your character something you wouldn't otherwise have, it's not outdated.

Nothing is truly outdated until you have every single permanent thing from it, and a route for gearing isn't outdated until there are no more upgrades to be had, so unless you have perfect corruption on all your gear, nothing that gives echoes is outdated.

This is another argument born from trying everything possible to avoid playing the game. If you want to play the game, you do it. If you don't want to play the game, you really shouldn't play the game. No one is forcing you to play. It's incredibly selfish to ask the game to be changed to suit your needs. You do not have the right to ask that. This is not a cheeseburger. It's a piece of entertainment that millions of people play. You do not get to custom order entertainment as a regular customer.

It's really not that complicated to figure out if you don't ignore what the game is telling you. The game gives it to you piece by piece specifically to keep from being overwhelming, but I could see how it would be overwhelming if you did everything to avoid learning it as you go and tried to learn everything at once.

[cparle87]

Good example of why the game is dying.

Blame the WoD haters. "Where's the content?! There's nothing to do! Raid or die! The entire world is pointless!" Blizz was buried under so much of this pointless whining that they overcompensated by making sure you can never be done even on one toon. So the throngs who levelled tons of alts to raidlog in WoD were left flat footed and slapped in the face with the problem they caused. But of course such introspection is beyond most so they just pick a new thing to complain about. We've seen it before. "Wah world of dailycraft sucks!" We get almost no dailies in WoD. "Wah raid or die" We end up with a million alternate progression systems that WoW became as popular as it did because it didn't have, unlike UO or Everquest.

[GreenJesus]

Yeh I left during BoD so my gear is only liv 418, I dont have flying, dont have any essences or corruptions/cloak. Might as well just not even bother. Having fun with new ESO expansion that came out yesterday.

[Raisei]

I disagree, nothing about the current content grind has me at all excited to come back. It "Might" be easier to catch up now than it was in 8.2 or 8.1, but its still way more ridiculous that it was to catch up in WoD or previous expansions that didn't have multiple different levels of character power tied behind multiple quest lines.

So, you are indeed saying that it would be better for the game if we had a massive content draught like at the end of WoD where nothing was happening, where you did not even have M+ to do.
And all that just because you feel you are entitled to quit whenever you want and have everything other people worked for in the mean time handed to you on a silver platter if and when you deign to return. Geezus F. Christ. How self-centered can you be? "Cut down content for everyone so I dun have to do it when I take year-long breaks!"
Just go. Go and play Fortnite with the other kiddies, learn that the world does not revolve around you.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Did you read his damn post? He says PvP. What you can not expect is questing for 15 hours just to PvP. This azerite system is trash. Worse yet, we will have the same shit in shadowlands in a different form...

Part of me wants to hope you’re wrong but logical side of me says you’re going to be correct.

[Syegfryed]

Almost every expansions has required it in recent years.

MoP had the Cloak, WoD had the ring, Legion had the artifact (if you didn't do it you wouldn't unlock important artifact abilities or items like the Nether Crucible), and now BfA has the new cloak. Like I said, if that bothers you too much, play something else, doesn't look like it's changing, since SL will require who knows how much max level questing to unlock things in your covenant.

i didn't play wod until the end of it, and was able to play pvp fine there, just had to get the honor/conquest set, never did the ring quest

[WowIsDead64]

By that logic any and all sports are not for recreation, since in most of them you try to get better and you do put effort in before you reach the point where it is really fun, you train and invest time and sweat to improve. You do not just join a team for say football and immediatedly expect to win against a team of pros just because you paid the entrance fee. You do not come into team and when the coach tells you to do sit-ups throw a tantrum because you only came to have fun.

Both sports and games exist to have fun (and both have the option to go professional) but that does not mean that you get to do them without effort.

If you just want pure entertainment without lifting a finger there are movies to watch and crisps to eat. Which is fine enough, but does it hold the same engagement as a game that gives me the option to apply myself as much as I want to improve my characters as much as I want? Nope, definately not.

It's fine to skip the daily grind to do other things, I do it most days as well by now. What I just find ridiculously is the demand of people to be able to skip everything they do not like and receive the same rewards as the part of the game population that does everything. More effort should absolutely be rewarded more, lazyness should never be rewarded.
What the OP is asking here is basically that everyone that played the last 1,5 years gets shafted because he feels he deserves to be rewarded for the supreme effort of logging in.


And if playing the game is such a bother for you that you feel it is like a second job, then it is probably time to move on. I am working full time and I still managed to gear my main character to Mythic level with BiS Essences and BiS Corruption and I had fun doing it, it was certainly not the same as being at work.

Sport is bad example. Just because games don't have to be sport. Some games are just games. Because games =/= trying to improve. Sport games actually exist, because forcing yourself to do physical exercises is something...dunno how to say it better...against your nature? Because pain is something, your brain tells you to avoid. Game just tries to make it fun - not just boring and tedious "grinding". And to mask it's downsides. When you think about winning a game, you forget about pain and fatigue. Conclusion? Sport isn't for everyone, because not everyone wants and needs to improve. And games themselves are just for fun.

In wild nature games exist to test and train your skills. Just train. Not to improve, beat anybody and become pro at the end.

[Trumpcat]

..
I sympathize, but really, you can't expect return after a year and have nothing change. It's not SWTOR.

I've played SWTOR for four years since day one and find it very funny that this is exactly what we're were talking about with my friend yesterday.

Blizzard produces content like no other MMO gets, systems and features are constantly getting developed and iterated. Yes, they don't always work that well, but WoW is nevertheless a very active game.

If one is gone for over an year they can well expect that the rest of the players and the game didn't just AFK waiting for them.

[crusadernero]

Sport is bad example. Just because games don't have to be sport. Some games are just games. Because games =/= trying to improve. Sport games actually exist, because forcing yourself to do physical exercises is something...dunno how to say it better...against your nature? Because pain is something, your brain tells you to avoid. Game just tries to make it fun - not just boring and tedious "grinding". And to mask it's downsides. When you think about winning a game, you forget about pain and fatigue. Conclusion? Sport isn't for everyone, because not everyone wants and needs to improve. And games themselves are just for fun.

In wild nature games exist to test and train your skills. Just train. Not to improve, beat anybody and become pro at the end.

Are you saying people that enjoy playing football(soccer) forces themself to experience pain? Is it against human nature to be active? Ok.


The problem with wow retail right now, especially for those who come in late, is that theres to much to do. Gotta grind everywhere in the new zones for rep, essences, WQs and whatnot. Problem is, most zones are useless and more or less outdated now. We have 3 huge raids with a few zones attached to them, and non of them matters beyond grinding for something.

Then you also should do the 8.3 daily zones and visions.

I would 100% recommend everyone to just see the content thats there(dungeons, raids, the zones) a few times and the second it starts getting boring or you start getting that ich of "whats the point?" - Just unsub until atleast pre patch. If you do want to grind it all out, stick with ONE character. Dont do it on several characters, you'll end up not reaching your goals on any of em.

Personally im leveling a dark iron mage for heritage armor and after that my sub runs out. Wont sub again until sometime between prepatch and SL. The game right now is so convoluted with systems upon systems upon RNG with some RNG in it, its a mess.

Besides, its summer. Best time to take a decent break. If enough ppl would unsub maybe it will tell Blizzard that they gotta do something about the game in later phases of a xpac(though they prob wont care).

[Yriel]

Blame the WoD haters. "Where's the content?! There's nothing to do! Raid or die! The entire world is pointless!" Blizz was buried under so much of this pointless whining that they overcompensated by making sure you can never be done even on one toon. So the throngs who levelled tons of alts to raidlog in WoD were left flat footed and slapped in the face with the problem they caused. But of course such introspection is beyond most so they just pick a new thing to complain about. We've seen it before. "Wah world of dailycraft sucks!" We get almost no dailies in WoD. "Wah raid or die" We end up with a million alternate progression systems that WoW became as popular as it did because it didn't have, unlike UO or Everquest.

Oh no, Blizzard added additional content with good rewards. How could they. These Bastards!