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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SirReal View Post
    nah man. you're picking nits just to be contrarian. being able to replay quests already completed is literally the essence of party sync and something that was previously not possible.

    grasping at semantics and creating strawmen is a weird way to spend your time.
    Thank you SirReal...i only needed one person to go against this people who make sure to flame me in every thread (for some reason)
    I needed some strenght to simply ignore them and you gave me that strenght Ill simply ignore them now

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    WoW literally ripped the idea off from Guild Wars 2.
    If the exact system already exists in GW2 then my bad It wouldnt be the first time WoW copies something from GW2

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Thank you SirReal...i only needed one person to go against this people who make sure to flame me in every thread (for some reason)
    I needed some strenght to simply ignore them and you gave me that strenght Ill simply ignore them now

    - - - Updated - - -



    If the exact system already exists in GW2 then my bad It wouldnt be the first time WoW copies something from GW2
    It was one of the main draws OF Guild Wars 2. If you were higher level and already finished a zone, you could go back there to help your friend but you would get de-leveled in the same way WoW is doing it. You could then do the content again but only got a fraction of the exp since you were still technically much higher level. Then a year or two later, WoW ripped off the idea and tried to sell it as innovative.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SirReal View Post
    nah man. you're picking nits just to be contrarian. being able to replay quests already completed is literally the essence of party sync and something that was previously not possible.

    grasping at semantics and creating strawmen is a weird way to spend your time.

    Finding the distinction between what is revolutionary and what is new is not being contrarian. Stating that the concept of party sync in MMORPG's isn't new is just that: it isn't new in MMORPG's. I'll say it to you as I said it to him: notice how nobody in this thread is shitting on the concept of party sync.


    If he feels some form of being personally attacked by somebody saying that party sync isn't revolutionary, that's his burden to bear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Thank you SirReal...i only needed one person to go against this people who make sure to flame me in every thread (for some reason)
    I needed some strenght to simply ignore them and you gave me that strenght Ill simply ignore them now

    Like you usually do. You spew a bunch of feelings and parade them as fact, people disagree with you, and then you argue back playing victim and write them off as either hating or flaming you. Literally every thread you make and it became much more apparent when you decided to play this game in Coronavirus Pandemic thread.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2020-05-27 at 07:40 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    It was one of the main draws OF Guild Wars 2. If you were higher level and already finished a zone, you could go back there to help your friend but you would get de-leveled in the same way WoW is doing it. You could then do the content again but only got a fraction of the exp since you were still technically much higher level. Then a year or two later, WoW ripped off the idea and tried to sell it as innovative.
    Oh i know i know, i remember, i was a major WoW hater on the forums back then the "scaling" was ripped from GW2. Boss scaling, all kinds of scaling, GW2 made it popular.

    Can you repeat the same quests you already completed though?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Oh i know i know, i remember, i was a major WoW hater on the forums back then the "scaling" was ripped from GW2. Boss scaling, all kinds of scaling, GW2 made it popular.

    Can you repeat the same quests you already completed though?
    Last I played it before I got a computer that couldn't handle GW2, I'm pretty sure you could. Not 100% sure since it's been a while.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Tell me another MMORPG where you can repeat ALL the quests you already completed with an underleveld person and be scaled to its level.

    Lets test your brain...are you an expert when it comes to MMORPGs?
    GW2 is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, their party sync works better because it is automatic, every zone has a max level and scales you to the maximum of that area so things are always a challenge and all content new and old gives you relevant rewards for you level which WoW could do way better.

    GW2 also has persistent events (quests) that keep happening in every zone that you are part of as long as you are in the event radius, no need to group up.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Shadowlands Release Date will be October 20th or 27th, 2020

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sometus View Post
    So the big question is: Why not just join a guild? Now, here is where the problem goes a bit deeper. I tried joining guilds at many points in the past two expansions since the one I was raiding with before quit mid WoD. However, to join a guild now, you need to provide them with some sort of immediate use, mainly in terms of having high ilvl to begin with to justify them taking you in. And after that, unless you make a significant effort, you won't be in a clique in said guild that you can run dungeons with to gear up. So for the first time you will be alone and if you should get the short end of the stick and not be able to keep up with the gear the rest of your guild has you might be in trouble. Worst case you will fail your trial. I'd still try speaking with a officer in the guild or some other well connected person about it but sadly in a lot of guilds this attitude seems normal now.
    Nope, what you described happens when you try to join a guild that doesn't meet your playstyle. Like a casual player who wants to do some early m+ and heroic suddenly decides to join a guild that is strictly on hardcore schedule raids/dungeon wise, and has pretty big requirements.
    If you are a beginner - you join a casual-type guild, and gradually gain experience/gear.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Tell me another MMORPG where you can repeat ALL the quests you already completed with an underleveld person and be scaled to its level.

    Lets test your brain...are you an expert when it comes to MMORPGs?
    FFXI added level sync like 12 years ago lol, and you could always redo quest/mission fights to help other players complete them.

  9. #29
    I found the game more social now than it has been since Cataclysm. Communities are a great way to find players with similar interests, and there are many Discord servers for guilds and communities to allow you to monitor people looking for others when not even logged in. Even just randomly encountering people in the open world, I find they're pretty decent; I've been playing pretty much only in war mode, and I'll still help the other faction kill a rare or get help from them with killing a hard mob. Most people ignore me. Only when three or more come around in a group do I really get jumped, and this is in a mode that allows players to engage in their worst behavior. I really wouldn't label the game anti-social.

    Admittedly, I don't do much in terms of M+ or rated PvP, so maybe it's harder to find people there, but I've had no issue getting achievement runs, finding groups for PvP events, or doing raids. I even took a bunch of people who hated Horrific Visions, made a group with them, and ran them through Visions to help them get to rank 15; we're still running after that just because they really enjoy the social aspect of Visions after hating the solo content.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by thrill View Post
    FFXI added level sync like 12 years ago lol, and you could always redo quest/mission fights to help other players complete them.
    Needs to also be rewarding.

    I dont know who did it first...but party sync as it is now is so good...it needs to be the new MMORPG standard.
    It just needs to be, otherwise the game is crap, quite literally.

    And IMO it only needs grouping to be more rewarding and fun to make it perfect...

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Oh i know i know, i remember, i was a major WoW hater on the forums back then the "scaling" was ripped from GW2. Boss scaling, all kinds of scaling, GW2 made it popular.

    Can you repeat the same quests you already completed though?
    From what I recall with games like GW2 and SWTOR, if a player was doing a story quest in a specific phased area, you could join them for it, even if you've already done the quest on your character, but you weren't rewarded for it the way you are in WoW. GW2 doesn't handle quests the way WoW does; they tend to be very personal to the character and are generally all surrounding your character's story, so overall it doesn't hinder too much with respect to limiting playing with someone else.

  12. #32
    I found that doing "end game" content is often times very unfriendly, can feel difficult to break into and once in a while downright toxic.

    The nicest people are the ones you meet camping things like Soundless in my experience.
    Once in a while you get some jerk trying blow it up or a Hunter trying to tame it out from under a group, but usually you get people forming groups and waiting 5-10 minutes for people to arrive, slowing DPS for stragglers and just being really considerate overall with no real benefit to themselves.

    I think most of the kind and patient people have moved away from end game and progression because the rotten apples spoiled the bunch for them.

  13. #33
    Almost all social interactions are in causal content or in down time. That's the way its always been.

  14. #34
    i think wow has more social than other mmorpg games

  15. #35
    WoW is what you make of it. There are people playing from all walks of life, you just have to find your place.

    Also I just noticed that that guy is in the thread so don't mind if I abandon, toodle oo!
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    It isn't even one of the most anti-social MMOs I play ... you can literally play and gear up a character in SW:TOR with never grouping with another character.

    I love SW:tOR, but I can't remember the last time I played the game and felt I had to interact with another player (note: I know there are things that require grouping, but most of the game can be done solo).
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Sometus View Post
    So what I am talking about is the current gearing system as well as the mindset of the people going into mythic+ and the experience of new players reaching the endgame. Without talking too long about it, pugging, from levelling to endgame, is currently an incredibly hostile, tense and unwelcoming place that can make wow so much worse of an experience than it has to be. It's no place for learning or to experience the content. Instead it is dominated by the GOGOGOGO attitude and hypercompetitive mindset that is encouraged by the community, no matter if it is normal, heroic, mythic 0, mythic+ (through which this mindset came to be).

    So the big question is: Why not just join a guild? Now, here is where the problem goes a bit deeper. I tried joining guilds at many points in the past two expansions since the one I was raiding with before quit mid WoD. However, to join a guild now, you need to provide them with some sort of immediate use, mainly in terms of having high ilvl to begin with to justify them taking you in. And after that, unless you make a significant effort, you won't be in a clique in said guild that you can run dungeons with to gear up. So for the first time you will be alone and if you should get the short end of the stick and not be able to keep up with the gear the rest of your guild has you might be in trouble. Worst case you will fail your trial. I'd still try speaking with a officer in the guild or some other well connected person about it but sadly in a lot of guilds this attitude seems normal now.

    In a way WoW really has become a place of survival and people being left behind if they don't commit themselves to the treadmill early enough in a patch, especially with essences and corruptions now. People who didn't grind in 8.2 now have major drawbacks since they are missing some essences or chances to get higher ranks.

    To get higher gear you need to either pug or join a guild, but both of those possibilities require you to have high ilvl to begin with. For guilds its the reason that they want some immediate use out of you and not gear up a stranger if they don't know if you will stick with them. And for m+ since there is such a mass of people you need to overgear it to be accepted. And then the problem becomes that even if people have high ilvl, it doesn't mean they will play their class well. It's just a safety measure of "if he has higher ilvl it means he can put out more damage before he dies, so that we maybe get it done" (especially in +10s and higher where you have a harder time overgearing things because mechanics become punishing).

    This is just my two cents but I really think there needs to be something done to incentivize to socialize or just have basic human empathy with others and encourage them to learn rather than the "just get ilvl somehow I don't care if you can play your class well" mentality. It is especially hostile to new players, which two friends who tried to get into wow endgame can attest to. Since the introduction of m+ in legion and the new quick way to access competitive pugable content this has really broken through and bfa has exaggerated it. Combine that with the overabundance of treadmills and the lack of emphasis of skill and you have a horrible experience for people who have not been in a strong tightly knit guild since before legion.

    Thanks for reading!
    I am one of the toxic ones, why?

    When people come into 20+ keys and dont interupt, they dont belong there. they are hurting the party and wasting everyones time being in that place. not to mention someones key.

    Same goes for defensives, doing low damage. when you underperform in m+ you are not only wasting your own time, your wasting everyone elses too. im talking higher level, lower level sure i have a ton more tolerence because thats where ppl should be when learning, not in 20s padding meters like MONKEYS, wow your td did 30million damage you should be in method!

    Or is it just that everyone thinks they are actually good? but really they have no clue just how bad they are and just how carried they have been up to 4k rio?

    You legit can be carried up to 4k rio, i was doing 22s the last easy week no sweat whatsoever, so so easy, thats 3900 rio! pugging!

    When you fully understand how the game works and what needs to be done in depth its incredibly irritating to see people not playing there class to its capabilities, they are literally just clicking dps dps dps dps oh crap im dieing il use darkness, no thought other than ooo aaa ooo aaa dps ooo aa ooo aa dps, no pre plan. no using healpots so the heal can stay in catform longer. its ok il take 79 corruption the healer can heal the thing when it procs....then you die...." this heal sucks"

  18. #38
    I think it allows for overly excessive progression as a solo player for an mmo but outside of a few notable examples like FF11 its as social as any other mmo.

  19. #39
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    I feel more social in Fallout 76 than I do in retail and it's simply because of Phasing/Sharding. That's literally all it is, it isn't the game or people's changing or whatever nonsense I've seen over the years. Another problem with WoW that 76 doesn't share (using 76 as an example because they both kinda tick the same MMO feedback boxes) is that WoW has finite leveling and finite questing. Once you've leveled past 40, there's no reason ever again under any circumstances to return to where ever you were at 40. Once you've reached max level, that's it, you're done, it's time for "end game" that never touches on anything from your leveling past.

    I've found that Fallout 76's endless leveling is good because it basically solves WoW's problem of artificial grind with invisible currency you build up in the form of Azerite/Artifact power that you don't care about whatsoever that's separate from your actual character. In 76 if you reach level 150, you reach 150, that is never being taken from you.
    Another thing about WoW is that the quest rewards are very bad and they also don't scale to level. There is never ever ever a benefit in going back and completing a quest at max level (other than achieves, woopdie doo). In 76, quest items scale, which means as a level 15 player you can also be doing events with level 36, 64, 99, 132, doesn't matter because the rewards scale. That simple thing makes the game feel so much more alive and relevant, it's kinda crazy.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Sometus View Post
    So what I am talking about is the current gearing system as well as the mindset of the people going into mythic+ and the experience of new players reaching the endgame. Without talking too long about it, pugging, from levelling to endgame, is currently an incredibly hostile, tense and unwelcoming place that can make wow so much worse of an experience than it has to be. It's no place for learning or to experience the content. Instead it is dominated by the GOGOGOGO attitude and hypercompetitive mindset that is encouraged by the community, no matter if it is normal, heroic, mythic 0, mythic+ (through which this mindset came to be).

    So the big question is: Why not just join a guild? Now, here is where the problem goes a bit deeper. I tried joining guilds at many points in the past two expansions since the one I was raiding with before quit mid WoD. However, to join a guild now, you need to provide them with some sort of immediate use, mainly in terms of having high ilvl to begin with to justify them taking you in. And after that, unless you make a significant effort, you won't be in a clique in said guild that you can run dungeons with to gear up. So for the first time you will be alone and if you should get the short end of the stick and not be able to keep up with the gear the rest of your guild has you might be in trouble. Worst case you will fail your trial. I'd still try speaking with a officer in the guild or some other well connected person about it but sadly in a lot of guilds this attitude seems normal now.

    In a way WoW really has become a place of survival and people being left behind if they don't commit themselves to the treadmill early enough in a patch, especially with essences and corruptions now. People who didn't grind in 8.2 now have major drawbacks since they are missing some essences or chances to get higher ranks.

    To get higher gear you need to either pug or join a guild, but both of those possibilities require you to have high ilvl to begin with. For guilds its the reason that they want some immediate use out of you and not gear up a stranger if they don't know if you will stick with them. And for m+ since there is such a mass of people you need to overgear it to be accepted. And then the problem becomes that even if people have high ilvl, it doesn't mean they will play their class well. It's just a safety measure of "if he has higher ilvl it means he can put out more damage before he dies, so that we maybe get it done" (especially in +10s and higher where you have a harder time overgearing things because mechanics become punishing).

    This is just my two cents but I really think there needs to be something done to incentivize to socialize or just have basic human empathy with others and encourage them to learn rather than the "just get ilvl somehow I don't care if you can play your class well" mentality. It is especially hostile to new players, which two friends who tried to get into wow endgame can attest to. Since the introduction of m+ in legion and the new quick way to access competitive pugable content this has really broken through and bfa has exaggerated it. Combine that with the overabundance of treadmills and the lack of emphasis of skill and you have a horrible experience for people who have not been in a strong tightly knit guild since before legion.

    Thanks for reading!
    I'm with you! And I think that stuff that checks how many dungeons you've run at what levels, etc. should be banned.

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