what is the stupidest thing to have ever happened in wow's lore

[Sevyvia]

The Horde's leadership has been a shitshow after Garrosh.

Lol. Garrosh was the fucking instigator of the shitshow, not some shining example. It has just continued since him, because Blizzard are incapable of writing coherent larger-scale lore.

As for what's stupidest, I can't really decide. Orc worship, Sylvanas worship, or just the continued, utter failure to tap into any of the potential of the night elves over time. 9 times out of 10, when they do anything at all with a night elf, story wise, I just want to crawl into a fucking hole. The 8.1 cinematic, with Malfurion taking on that Horde supply train, was like a single candle in a storm. I can barely even summon the vitriol I used to have, anymore. Repeated disappointment eventually leads to apathy.

[Varodoc]

There was a question about this on Ask CDev

Yes, but that is a very old interview. If I am not mistaken it was referring to the undead raised in Andorhal, who were nothing more than shambling zombies.

Furthermore, if you listen to how Sira and Delaryn speak, they just don't give off the impression that they are under a frenzy or anything like that.

[Paula Deen]

All of TBC. Literally the whole fucking thing. What the shit were they thinking?

But worst of all? Like actually the funniest most dumb moment that will forever be entrained in the 'Fuck you' banks of those who played it live.

DRAENOR IS FREE

Like don't get me wrong. Some people have a bone to pick with the time travel but they had a lit concept and so horribly fucked it up because of money (They can lie all they want but the expac was a movie tie in then the movie got delayed and they got lost)

[Ghostile]

Yes, but that is a very old interview. If I am not mistaken it was referring to the undead raised in Andorhal, who were nothing more than shambling zombies.

Furthermore, if you listen to how Sira and Delaryn speak, they just don't give off the impression that they are under a frenzy or anything like that.

To me they sound kinda wrong, in a good way, in a deranged guided-by-rage kinda way.

[Oswen]

Forsaken in the Horde and Night Elves in the Alliance, could have actually worked better if their inclusion was switched (pretty but still savage race for the Horde, monstrous Lordaeron citizen race for the Alliance).

Blood Elves switching side to please the asian playerbase, a bad decision which further ruined the Horde image which is still felt to this day with all the high elves movement stuff.


TBC raids, almost noone of them made sense.
The whole Sunwell debacle with Anveena et all.

Thrallaclysm.

The Horde being the villain every odd expansion apologizing for their mistakes after the Alliance slaps their wrists.

"There must always be a Lich King" .
"or maybe not" - Sylvanas 2020.

The entire WoD.

Everything recent about Sylvanas.

[Super Dickmann]

Now that you mentioned the Maw, I wonder if Sylvanas whoring herself to the Jailer had anything to do with what dying people see as they are entering the Maw.
While not written anywhere, I wouldn't count out the possibility of the Jailer being part of the brainwashing of the "more powerful" characters.

An easy motivation would be to have Sylvanas convinced that the Maw was always the default and that hence breaking the system is preferable to everyone (and especially herself) going to hell. Ditto, using that as a recruitment tool into the Forsaken - yes, undeath isn't great, but it beats eternal torment. While that's no longer viable, I do think that it'd have been a nice touch to have the undead night elves be reacting to them not reaching their promised afterlife but instead the Maw and thus being spooked accordingly. Being saved from that would also go a long way to explain why the newly raised Forsaken are as pro-Forsaken as they are - they'd know the alternative is much worse.

Alternatively, and requiring far fewer changes, would have been to have Sylvanas join the Jailor to save her sorry ass from hell once the plan with Eyir fell through.

[Ghostile]

"There must always be a Lich King" .
"or maybe not" - Sylvanas 2020.

We don't exactly know the consequences of it yet.
The scourge was in disarray after Arthas died and we have no idea what the current situation is like after Bolvar took on the job.

Bolvar being more than a human might have been able to defuse the army that Arthas had built and delayed the swarm of undeath that would have happened had he not taken the job.

[Soon-TM]

The new book will give her screentime and she might tell her motivation. But I have this very slight suspicion that her motivation will be stupid. Don't spoil it though.

Not only it has a high chance of being stupid, but also of abruptly changing 3+ times during the course of the expansion

[Ardenaso]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Sylvanas brainwashed other people too? Like she was planning to brainwash that Proudmoore fella.

yes, the Forsaken raised from Ambermill were feral if I'm not mistaken

[Feanoro]

No amount of pills will be enough now that you've opened my eyes to this being a recycled Star Trek plot.

Good to know Metzen appreciated the classics enough to rip them off!

[Combatbutler]

An easy motivation would be to have Sylvanas convinced that the Maw was always the default and that hence breaking the system is preferable to everyone (and especially herself) going to hell.

There is but one little problem, Sylvanas already died before and was sent to paradise, so she must know there are different things out there.

[Super Dickmann]

There is but one little problem, Sylvanas already died before and was sent to paradise, so she must know there are different things out there.

Yeah, it'd require moving some parts, which is why I'm more partial to her using this and the afterlife presently being fucked as a way to get followers on her side. She's at the very least told her Dark Rangers, since they reference it in the Alliance war campaign, but past that it's just not there, which seems especially weird now that this is the direction they've taken her in.

[Combatbutler]

Yeah, it'd require moving some parts, which is why I'm more partial to her using this and the afterlife presently being fucked as a way to get followers on her side. She's at the very least told her Dark Rangers, since they reference it in the Alliance war campaign, but past that it's just not there, which seems especially weird now that this is the direction they've taken her in.

They really don't plan their story in advance and it shows, why did Sylvanas went to the maw back in Wotlk? She committed quite a few atrocities, yet Kael'thas was sent to Revendreth, despite wanting to set the whole universe on fire.

I really hate nlizz lets make it up as we go approach, it causes so many holes in their narrative -.-

[Super Dickmann]

They really don't plan their story in advance and it shows, why did Sylvanas went to the maw back in Wotlk? She committed quite a few atrocities, yet Kael'thas was sent to Revendreth, despite wanting to set the whole universe on fire.

I really hate nlizz lets make it up as we go approach, it causes so many holes in their narrative -.-

While I won't discount this being Blizz's out of whack morality kicking in, I'm 90% sure they'll have the Jailor have intentionally punted her into the Maw to get an agent in the mortal world.

[Combatbutler]

While I won't discount this being Blizz's out of whack morality kicking in, I'm 90% sure they'll have the Jailor have intentionally punted her into the Maw to get an agent in the mortal world.

Why use her then? Her character arc was done in Wotlk to be honest. They could have easily set up another forsaken in her place and define forsaken identity, without twisting and turning an existing character in so many different directions.

[Super Dickmann]

Why use her then? Her character arc was done in Wotlk to be honest. They could have easily set up another forsaken in her place and define forsaken identity, without twisting and turning an existing character in so many different directions.

I have not much issue with Cataclysm's portrayal of Sylvanas or the Forsaken as my multiple screeds praising it show, but in general it just doesn't jive. You could rewrite BTS to lead into Sylvanas siding with the Jailor within that book, but there's no way to gel her Cataclysm to Legion actions with the BFA/Shadowlands angle.

[Combatbutler]

I have not much issue with Cataclysm's portrayal of Sylvanas or the Forsaken as my multiple screeds praising it show, but in general it just doesn't jive.

Keeping Sylvanas around felt artificial to be honest, it is one of the reasons I want her to go, the new forsaken direction could have easily explained through the power-vacuum left behind by her departure and the most ruthless taking over as a result.

You could rewrite BTS to lead into Sylvanas siding with the Jailor within that book, but there's no way to gel her Cataclysm to Legion actions with the BFA/Shadowlands angle.

Which brings us back to planning stories in advance, if they had replaced her with a new forsaken with this story direction in mind, it could have worked out quite well.

[Powerogue]

The whole Sunwell debacle with Anveena et all.

I wonder how much we could just cobble together of the general stupid thing of:

"Plot points that appear without warning or foreshadowing in-game that you would've needed to read secondary material to understand."

Looking at you, Varian! You grew on me, but some huge barbarian with dual swords, scars, and anime hair with click dialogue where he calls himself two different names just appearing in Stormwind one day left me dumbstruck. "Who the hell is this?" I asked. "Read the comics." said trade chat.

(edit: and WOD again. Not reading War Crimes, there was no transition. I didn't even know if the Khadgar that showed up was ours or the AU Khadgar. Expansion hadn't even started and I had no idea what was going on.)

Even Calia has been adequate. Players who never played a priest can still grasp that she's a soft-spoken woman of the Menethil line trying to earn the trust of the forsaken. She's being weaned in slowly, and I'm sure some sparknotes version of the Gathering Massacre in quest text or a cutscene portraying the gist of it will come along once she's in the spotlight.

I always look to this as the perfect example of the opposite:
"Who is the giant flamey guy?"

"the hunter is nothing without the hunt" = personally hated by Illidan, some sort of ultimate demon?
BROTHER = related to the titans. You might notice the empty chair.
YOUR CRUSADE IS OVER = The Burning Crusade?
his general appearance = Yep, that looks like the leader of the Burning Legion of demons to me. Firey, big horns, deep voice.
stabbing the planet = wants to destroy Azeroth.
Velen's sigh = Velen also has a history with this monster, and is relieved for it to finally be over.

[Super Dickmann]

Keeping Sylvanas around felt artificial to be honest, it is one of the reasons I want her to go, the new forsaken direction could have easily explained through the power-vacuum left behind by her departure and the most ruthless taking over as a result.

I heavily disagree. It'd be an easy out to have her die in said encounter, but going "What now?" and what that now actually is was a good direction to take the Forsaken in, as was the Cataclysm-era spin on Lordaeron identity and the recontextualizing of undeath. A lot more could have been done with it - such as focus on the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow or Sylvanas actually using what she saw upon her death as a recruitment tool, but what we got was fine.

As BFA showed, removing Sylvanas from the Forsaken is something that would need to be done carefully and with forethought on what you would be creating in the aftermath. And while their actual story has only gotten worse since Cataclysm when it comes to the Forsaken, the storytelling has improved. I've said a lot about Calia, but at least she actually appeared in game before her impending takeover, which I can't say about the new Horde Warchief, the death of Cairne and the expulsion of the Grimtotem all happening in a tie in book.

TBC was worst about this by far.

@Powerogue

You had at least an idea who Sargeras was through Legion - a very bad man who talked to KJ through the trailers. You didn't know he was planet sized and on fire, but you could infer it. But suppose like the vast majority of people you didn't buy the manga in TBC but then you have to watch some blue-haired twat talk to a floating farmgirl over the Sunwell and are attempting to decipher what the fuck is going on.

[Pacem Aeternam]

WOD's paralel universe just doesn't fit a fantasy setting. I get traveling to other dimensions or planes of existence but this is a whole new level of silly.