Raider.io is almost perfect

[Kaver]

If you know how it's working, you can easily boost your rio.
Week 1: do all dungeons 6-7 in time. Its extremely easy and do not req rio at all.
Week 2: do all dungeons 10 in time. Since you will have some rio from prev week, you will easily find groups.
Week 3: boom! You have ~1300 rio, now you can run 12-13's to be closer to 15 reqs.
Week 4: you have enough rio to run timed 15.

But that requires you to take responsibility for your own shit and not expect to get carried for free. How dare you suggest something so sensibly in here!

[Segus1992]

Again, i have nothing against r.io, but it certainly didn't make the game better. It's gearscore all over again, and we all know how that ended.

The entire problem with gearscore was how inaccurate it was, and how it was ultimately terrible at gauging how good a player actually is. Raider.io is far better.

Yes, some people use it to get people to boost them, and some people use it specifically to deny noobs/returning players - but those people probably would've kicked you after one boss back in the day when it became clear that your DPS is below par, which is far worse than simply being denied.

[Coldkil]

The entire problem with gearscore was how inaccurate it was, and how it was ultimately terrible at gauging how good a player actually is. Raider.io is far better.

Yes, some people use it to get people to boost them, and some people use it specifically to deny noobs/returning players - but those people probably would've kicked you after one boss back in the day when it became clear that your DPS is below par, which is far worse than simply being denied.

You get the point though. r.io is fine by itself, but give it in the hands of players and the results are abysmal. Informations provided are still in some way limited (but i think there's no actual realistic way to achieve that) and players read from those only what they like.

On the opposite side, i have pugged raids quite a lot and while it's the same thing, i have had way less issues pugging raids than M+, even on release day. Maybe since raids have way more people involved, the personal skill gets diluted in the bunch and there's way more leeway. Players know that they can carry a couple of bad people so they don't care much.

Generally, i don't think the M+ format helps the game. But it's extremely popular so if people keep playing, it's going nowhere. Better to buckle up and get myself into it, willing or not. (EDIT: would be awesome if all endgame was shrunk down into M+ style. Again, it's a matter of M+ and raids overlapping too much).

[melzas]

Raider.io is probably the only reason I'm subbed right now. Pugging without it was so bad that I wasn't doing+ in legion at all.

[Hellobolis]

But that requires you to take responsibility for your own shit and not expect to get carried for free. How dare you suggest something so sensibly in here!

more like: how to get people to make an account on raider.io when they want to play an alt 101.

[Trumpcat]

There's three things to watch in order of importance:
1. Number of timed dungeons above ##
2. Overall io score
3. Highest completed level of the dungeon one applies for

1 - is very important, because I've seen people who have done everything over 15 once or twice and barely anything else. Obviously paid for boost or got carried. Either way 99% chance the person has very little experience and skill.

2 - for obvious reasons

3 - I would never decline someone who is 1 level below the key they apply for if the above two points are legit. But I would decline if it's 2 or more levels lower. You should progress naturally in steps, not expect to get carried in a 20 if you've ever only done 15.


And then if I am looking for a fast farm (ie echoes) I will be looking for overgeared and "overskilled" people to breeze through 15s, that's not for anyone to progress, but to pull 5 groups, delete them and finish the dungeon asap so new one would start.

[Adam Jensen]

it has to go away because now its doubling down on absurd requirements for a lower content.

Yeah.

I see morons post keys demanding raider IO checks for like an M5.

It's a fucking 5. You can bring 4 drooling retards into a 5 and make the timer.

[Saltysquidoon]

You get the point though. r.io is fine by itself, but give it in the hands of players and the results are abysmal. Informations provided are still in some way limited (but i think there's no actual realistic way to achieve that) and players read from those only what they like.

It's like everything. People have been making limited use of meters for over a decade that doesn't make the tool itself bad.

[Kokolums]

Yeah because that would never be abused in any way.

A comments section is required for raider.io.

A person can comment on how someone rage quit and then post a link to the video showing it.

[Segus1992]

You get the point though. r.io is fine by itself, but give it in the hands of players and the results are abysmal. Informations provided are still in some way limited (but i think there's no actual realistic way to achieve that) and players read from those only what they like.

On the opposite side, i have pugged raids quite a lot and while it's the same thing, i have had way less issues pugging raids than M+, even on release day. Maybe since raids have way more people involved, the personal skill gets diluted in the bunch and there's way more leeway. Players know that they can carry a couple of bad people so they don't care much.

Generally, i don't think the M+ format helps the game. But it's extremely popular so if people keep playing, it's going nowhere. Better to buckle up and get myself into it, willing or not. (EDIT: would be awesome if all endgame was shrunk down into M+ style. Again, it's a matter of M+ and raids overlapping too much).

Right, raider.io and similar tools in the hands of players they're not meant for is a ticket to toxicity. That's a problem with the players though, not the tools - the alternative is making sure tools are weak (such as FFXIV disallowing addons overall, especially damage meters), but I think that makes for a much less interesting endgame scene.

- - - Updated - - -

A comments section is required for raider.io.

A person can comment on how someone rage quit and then post a link to the video showing it.

If there was a single way to raider.io as toxic as it possibly can be for people who abuse it, this is it.

[Nnyco]

They should just add a comment section under everyone's profile.

Despite your 10year member banner, you dont seem to be on the internet for much.

[keelr]

This idea assumes that people are obligated to complete a dungeon no matter what.

Rage quit =/= leaving because the group sucks or someone goes afk.

rage quit exactly equal to leaving because the group sucks

[agentsi]

it has to go away because now its doubling down on absurd requirements for a lower content.

In my personal experience, the ONLY folks who want it to go away, are the folks who it prevents from being lazy and getting carried.

I will gladly take a 430-445 DPS over a 460 dps, if the lower ilvl DPS has a main with a high IO. I've seen so many piss poor 460-470 DPS's that cant even pull 40k on a boss.

Raider.io is probably the best thing to happen to WoW as far as addon's go. I cannot imagine trying to do M+ without it. Anytime I think about it, I can just assume it would be by far the most toxic thing in WoW if it didn't exist.

[Sansnom]

Too bad.

Learn the dungeons on 2. Raise your io with 7s and 8s. Timing all 7s puts you at nearly 1k io, It's not hard to do and understand. There's too many bads in this game and RIO is a b l e s s i n g

So, on one hand people complain about how the game is becoming less social. And then there are posts like this to illustrate one reason why.

People creating tools to segregate players so they do not have to mix. And people wonder why some are asking for more solo challenging contents.

[Coldkil]

It's like everything. People have been making limited use of meters for over a decade that doesn't make the tool itself bad.

Agree. However it's undeniable the general atmosphere is bad due to that. Reason why i don't like it (while i'd really like to see improvements to make it even better).

[Garymorilix]

Such a metric (if it were to be possible) would also have to ignore runs where excessive wipes happen, obviously. It would also have to note what level the quits happen at to actually be informative (leaving after wiping at +2 vs leaving after wiping once at +20 is a pretty huge difference). How long you stayed before leaving and at what point of the dungeon you were at at the time would be necessary as well. Two wipes before the first boss vs two wipes total is a huge difference too.

The metric WOULD be interesting, but it'd have to be made cleverly to work at all.

If you get high enough numbers to be a concern, the problem is you most likely. Not that all your groups involved someone going afk... it's all about how many you leave within a timespan and if it's done after someone died once or twice.

This is not the same argument anymore.

Ofc, if you made a system that COULD account for every little detail and decide whether something is appropriate or not it would be a perfect system.
But such a system is impossible to make.

At this point you went from "simply leaving is not an accurate metric" to "let's have all the thousands of runs run thru an AI that calculates in real time 24/7 every time you even enter a dungeon".

Not even Blizzard keeps such data around, all they record is your time at the end of a run. That's it.

What you suggest is even more delusional than OP's initial suggestion.
OP's suggestion could not be implemented either but it would need much less data to be collected.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I will gladly take a 430-445 DPS over a 460 dps, if the lower ilvl DPS has a main with a high IO. I've seen so many piss poor 460-470 DPS's that cant even pull 40k on a boss.

To be fair, that's partially a function of so much DPS being divorced from ilvl, particularly in 8.3 with corruption doing obscene amounts of damage.

[Saltysquidoon]

So, on one hand people complain about how the game is becoming less social. And then there are posts like this to illustrate one reason why.

People creating tools to segregate players so they do not have to mix. And people wonder why some are asking for more solo challenging contents.

Do you mean like guilds? A feature that has existed since second one of day one of wow?

[Laqweeta]

So, on one hand people complain about how the game is becoming less social. And then there are posts like this to illustrate one reason why.

People creating tools to segregate players so they do not have to mix. And people wonder why some are asking for more solo challenging contents.

I mean unfortunately there are too many bad players in this game that ruin runs.

Learn the dungeons, then play with the big boys.

[Gaidax]

Raider.IO is just a tool. The issue is the community and it's difficult to do something about it because both sides of the coin have some legitimate grievances over the whole thing. Unreasonable demands are an issue, but on the other hand people who are clearly out of their league having unrealistic expectations is an issue as well.