Rio, Curve etc. = Elitist?

[Sinfelle]

Hi everyone. I hope you're all having a nice spring day.

I play WoW. I'm a 11/12 mythic raider and I have a 3k rio score.

I prefer to play with people who got approximately the same experience with current content as myself.

Therefore I use systems like Raider.io, Wowprogress, Warcraftlog etc. to see how much experience people have with current content to compare it to my own.

Do you think that makes me an elitist or do you think it's a fair preference?

Edit: Also, is being an elitist a bad thing?

As long as the requirements you set for a group match the level of content your doing, then I think that's fair. I'm not bringing a 8/12H to M N'zoth, nor would I bring a 800 RIO to a +20. But if you were doing something like a +15, I wouldn't be dead set on having a 3k IO, i think 1.5k is still appropriate.

And people that use "elitist" in a negative light are just upset that they play sub-optimally and are shit at an easy loot pinata game.

[AntenoraDK]

Depends on what content you are trying to do.

e.g. if you insist on 3k io instead of something around 2k for a +15 run, then yeah i'd say you are a bit of an elitist. but if you are doing +20 keys that's entirely fair.

Depends on affixes imo.


On a free week (easy affixes) I'd say 1.5 - 1.6 is sufficient for a 15.

[Kaver]

But if you were doing something like a +15, I wouldn't be dead set on having a 3k IO, i think 1.5k is still appropriate.

I agree. I can easily bring 1.5k rio players and finish the dungeon in time. No problem. The issue for me is that the run is most likely going to be boring as hell (for me). Pulling one group at a time. Safe and slow.

[Sinfelle]

I agree. I can easily bring 1.5k rio players and finish the dungeon in time. No problem. The issue for me is that the run is most likely going to be boring as hell (for me). Pulling one group at a time. Safe and slow.

Yup. But you'd probably be able to fill and finish the key before having someone with a 3k que for a pug +15. Especially if it's for a tank or healer.

[PaladinBash]

Elitists aren't elite. They usually aren't even successful, never mind good. It's an attitude and a toxic one at that. I'm not talking about them being exclusionary to scrubs or anything, that's sensible rather than elitist. What is disgusting about elitism is that it makes mediocre players who get some fraction of success even in a madeup rating like bullyio think they're good without ever really doing anything or having actual skill. This is a problem because now some kid who has just run a few dungeons in turbo mode thinks he is amazing and so his word is law and everything he thinks or says is right. That's just annoying because they come along with this kind of attitude to raids and moan and groan about nonsense. Bullyio is a brilliant example of this as people with 1500 rating will preen and preach about their precious +15 key which I only do for a yolo box every week (or did while I still needed anything from them) and act like they are MDI champions.

Ironically, the most typical elitist will only ever bring people far higher rated than him in hopes of getting carried. Elitists are almost always carried monkeys themselves and use this projection as a screen against criticism. "Dude you're doing X mechanic badly" "LOLOLOL YOU WOULD THINK THAT LOWLY 1900 IO RET PALADIN LOLOL WATCH AN MDI VIDEO SOMETIME SCRUB " is typical when you tell a tank not to pull excessive shit when, amazingly, a strat that works fine with 2 Unholy DKs doesn't work well without them. But, of course, a random +15 yolo key has to be done with perfect meta strats and builds and people in 480ilvl with 2500+ io or it's just going to be 100+ deaths before the first boss. AND AGAIN, all of this is fine because you can and should only ever take whoever the fuck you want to your key but this attitude is SUPER COMMON amongst shitty scrubs that will fuck things up, never kick/dispel/cc and just be insufferable the entire time.

So yeah nah, having standards and sense isn't elitism. Elitism isn't a mark of a good player and is most common amongst shitties.

[Lorgran]

I play around 15-17 keys, got 2k rating. We often do not bring people below 1500 and rarely anyone above 2500.
At 1500, in most cases you do not have the experience compared to us.
At 2500, we don't have the experience compared to you.

We've done this since we did the 5-10 band, and in the end it's just easier for everyone.
There are of course exceptions, and if you've been smart enough to register on raider.io and set up a main, we'll gladly bring a 500 score alt.

[Aucald]

Nobody owes you anything! You do not have the right to join other people's group!

There is no such thing as gatekeeping. Nobody can forbid you to do content, but you might have to do the content yourself = make you own GODDAM group!!!!

I mean why do shit players who are unable to kill N'zoth on normal have this almost sexual urge to play with people who are much more skilled than they are?
People should make their own group with people of the same skill level and enjoy the game on a level that befits them.

I never said they did - in fact, I implied the exact opposite in my original reply.

There is, however, such a thing as gatekeeping - making your own group is always an option, but not always viable; especially not when the pool of available players are using tools to scan the group's creator or members and make the decision not to help "carry the 'plebs," preferring to join groups who require the extraordinary standard said players can meet so as to enjoy easy and/or profitable runs. Once the talent rarefies itself to the upper echelons of a given hierarchy, the bottom and middle rungs often cannot ascend the ladder anymore because the next rung is inhumanly high and beyond their reach (unless another player already in said upper echelons deigns to assist them, thus the concept of "gatekeeping").

Ideally, skilled players should feel a drive to assist other players who want to ascend as well. Your very implication here belies the ultimate truth of the problem - you refer to the lower echelons of players as "shit," but those ranks are full of examples like myself. I'm not superbly geared (iLvl 460), my R.IO score would be abysmal as I don't typically do Mythic+ runs, but I've played WoW since the original Beta back in '04 and raided competitively until WoD, when I went casual due to the demands of a then-new job. I am very skilled as a player even now, a net boon to whatever group I tend to join.

If you *always* run with groups of the same skill level then you can't evolve - the game's very design is posited on character growth through gear and challenge. If the disparity between the middle and upper rungs is too great, you break that progressive model and pool talent in the upper and lower rungs. That's not really difficult to understand - but it's also not the fault of any one person. It's a community problem.

[Capultro]

it is elitist of course,people that dont use raiderio cant go in your group mithic + only because you have better gear and experience?no,absolutely.
Ultimately, everyone in the group wants to have good gear and experience, that is not fair, nor is it okay, because not everyone has a good team or experience, and ... raid involves giving this group of people disgusting elitism. before wow it was more fun, the dungeons before were fun not like now that they ask you for a university degree before inviting you. This is not fair. one thing, is that some friends form an elite group, very respectable, and another thing is the situation Currently with raiderio. There are many people who do not do mithic + because of this, nor hc raid either, because of the curve. This is not fair, it is disgusting elitism.

[Xalvia]

you elitist! how dare you play the game how you want and not carry me!

[Swnem]

The few good guilds per server sell raid run achievements for gold.

Im surprised you havent heard of this.

I'm surprised you don't understand that is not what i'm talking about.

I didnt say its flawless, i said i understand why people use it but there is no evading bad players. Anyone can be carried. It doesnt even need to be a gold carry.

[Jonnusthegreat]

ok sure,i guess im also a homophobe cause i dont like men ,thanks,i learned how much of a disgusting and hateful person I am thanks to you ^_^

Nothing of what you just said relates to my post. If you had read the words for a purpose other than to find out a reason why you can save face and double down in this argument, you would realize that.

This isn't related to this thread at all, I'm going to stop responding about race and sexual orientation in a thread about elitism in a video game.

[Coolthulhu]

12/12m people I personally know and played with or GTFO. Why? Because boosting is so prevalent you can stumble upon people with higher numbers on paper that don't even know the mechanics for an encounter and pull numbers worthy of fresh 120s despite the gear they acquired through boosts.

[Kaver]

12/12m people I personally know and played with or GTFO. Why? Because boosting is so prevalent you can stumble upon people with higher numbers on paper that don't even know the mechanics for an encounter and pull numbers worthy of fresh 120s despite the gear they acquired through boosts.

This is why I often look at experience which includes number of runs etc. People who get boosted will typically not have a high amount of runs.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

yes it is elitist if you insist on requirements obviously higher then required for a smooth run. you are saying a 2k io person isn't good enough for you, even though objectively they obviously are capable of a smooth +15.

it's one of the most textbook examples of elitism you can realistically run into.

Not really. If you run a lot of keys you simply have other ambitions than others. 2k means shit these days. I do SO many keys and people don't know mechanics, snaps, skips etc etc. Even with r.io scores above 2k. When I go m+ I want to do the biggest pulls possible and people knowing which mobs to cc/kick/kite/etc.
So who are you to tell me what the requirement for my group should look like, when I want to go for a save +3 and not waste my time?
This has nothing to do with elitism, but with the experience after thousands of m+ runs since legion and with realisitc expectacions. This is about me and what I expect from the game to have fun.
The same goes for raids. When I do a run I will check curve and logs, because I don't want to waste my lifetime. This is just how I handle things on my main, everyone else is free not to do so. Have fun.

There isn't a problem with elitism, but with people who think they are entitled. People who are too lazy to build their own groups, make friends, build connections, people who rather just complain all the time and just expect others to play by their rules. But things don't work that way.

[Coolthulhu]

This is why I often look at experience which includes number of runs etc. People who get boosted will typically not have a high amount of runs.

There's still a throng of people who get boosted weekly for the cache.

[Kaver]

There's still a throng of people who get boosted weekly for the cache.

Fortunately I think they are easy to spot.

[Coolthulhu]

Fortunately I think they are easy to spot.

Perhaps, but I'm lucky enough not to have to pug aside from the occasional spot out of 4/5 guild group when very late at night, and we can carry those if they underperform. Runing background checks on every applicant would be a pain in the ass when you're just looking to do one last run before hitting the bed.

[Mardux]

As long as the requirements you set for a group match the level of content your doing, then I think that's fair. I'm not bringing a 8/12H to M N'zoth, nor would I bring a 800 RIO to a +20. But if you were doing something like a +15, I wouldn't be dead set on having a 3k IO, i think 1.5k is still appropriate.

And people that use "elitist" in a negative light are just upset that they play sub-optimally and are shit at an easy loot pinata game.

Or they are people who can recognize they are better than someone else but they don't choose to be a dick about it.

[deenman]

Nothing of what you just said relates to my post. If you had read the words for a purpose other than to find out a reason why you can save face and double down in this argument, you would realize that.

This isn't related to this thread at all, I'm going to stop responding about race and sexual orientation in a thread about elitism in a video game.

so you chose the route of hypocricy and selectiveness,and run away,gotcha,i mean i dont blame you...i would run away from a sexist and a homophobe like myself for not wanting to have sex with other men

[Jonnusthegreat]

so you chose the route of hypocricy and selectiveness,and run away,gotcha,i mean i dont blame you...i would run away from a sexist and a homophobe like myself for not wanting to have sex with other men

There is zero hypocrisy in my post. The definitions of the words will not change, thus my describing the words won't change. I am not running away; I am choosing to not derail the thread by educating someone on an unrelated topic.