View Poll Results: What do you think?

53. You may not vote on this poll
  • Group 1 should feel obliged to help Group 2.

    11 20.75%
  • 10-30 players from Group 2 should just team up together and progress.

    42 79.25%
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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I was super busy with work when Nyalotha came out and missed my guild doing heroic progression. The A-team is now working their way through mythic. When I came back they were like 1-2/12 or something. I asked if the group was doing heroic farm nights and if I could come along. I got told no, they're focusing on mythic progression. I then asked if the guild was going to schedule alt nights where the mythic team's alts could lead guildies through to get their own AotC. I was told no, the mythic team isn't interested in doing any more raid nights than progression. I asked the GM, and he said if we wanted to raid it was up to us, not the raid team or guild, to organize the runs. Which I interpreted as "guild's chosen got what they wanted the rest of you can diaf."
    Before forced master loot a guild would take less progressed/worse players along on a masterloot run as the "worse" players would pay for the "boost" with their loot.
    That isn't possible anymore, so now you should accept your "scrubness", leave the guild or organize a run yourself.

    I was in the exact same situation as you with my guild. I joined a group of "leftovers" from our server and we are 4/12 mythic now. Nothing impressive at all. But with forced personal loot there are no incentives anymore to bring "baddies" along anymore...

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    you forgot about most important 3rd group - the largest :

    who who didnt progress but set idiotic requirements to get carried in instance

    thats where and ridiculous itlv req and AoTC came from
    Yes, this Guy is 100% right. Their is a strange thing happening that people Care so much about purple pixels that they actually dont play the game, cuz they dont have the skill to get the purples, all they buy boosts. its fcking baffling to me, but oke. Do what you want ofc..but if you can't have the skill to do something, get better (practise..It helps) or accept that you can't get it. And if you dat; "i dont have the time but ma Friends boehhoehh", its a non argument and it makes no sense, if your Friends dont wanna play with you because your ilvl is shiit, they not real Friends...
    Imho the boost runs ruin the pugpart of the game, i see people doing 20K dmg while 75% is Infinite Stars. Have multiple mythic kills, boosted..have AOTC and keystone master but they can't play for shiit. Rogues not using abilties, shadow priests not using void form (i dont like how it looks) etc..i dont pug anymore because of this simple reason, i user to have fun helping people get some kills, of go for a certain item i didn't seem to get (fu trinkets). Never again in this expansion.

    I might sound dramatic but i had a awefull pug last night, and still no trinket from Skittra..

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    You see a granny coming out of the grocery store, and her old, weak arms drop the grocery bags. Why should you, an able-bodied male help her?

    You see an excited 12yr old kid, setting foot in his first ever Heroic raid. Why should you, a decked-out Mythic raider help him?

    If your answer is "I don't have to, so I won't", then I question the way your parents raised you, if they even raised you at all.
    Your making it out as if Heroic is somehow impossible without being carried. It's not. Nor is it a nessecity for seeing the content in the game. There are two lower difficulties if someone finds the task insourmountable or if someone doesn't yet know the mechanics even thou there are hundreds of guides out there. Climbing a ladder is done one step at the time. And the perosn wont learn to climb ladders if i pick him up and throw him up to the highest step.

    The 12 year old are not some old granny who cannot survive on her own without aid, he is a 12 year old kid with every possibility to jump into a group of people who all are on the same experience and progress throu the raid just like everyone else has.

    My parents didnt carry me throu heroics, i climbed that tree all on my own. As, i suspect, did all these mythic raid grps that sprint hc for echoes.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Not at all. I want to hear the different arguments from both sides. I might know the possible answers to the question but I don't necessarily know why they feel that way. That's the interesting part
    You already heard the different arguments, which is why you knew there was an argument.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  5. #85
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Who knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    When it comes to raid progession (no matter what difficulty it is) we have two groups in a simplified version:

    Group 1) People who have progressed.

    Group 2) People who have not progressed yet.

    Naturally Group 2 often would like some help from Group 1.

    Now the questions are:

    Should Group 1 feel obliged to help Group 2 even though it means they would have to spend time reprogressing the content? Or is it fair to want a quick reclear of content which they have already beaten?

    Should people from Group 2 stop expecting help from Group 1 and instead make raid-teams with other people from Group 2 so they can progress together?

    Edit: I realize now that this sounds like a guild scenario, but it’s not meant to be. Group 1 and Group 2 are representations of the player base in general. My bad.
    People shouldn't expect anything from random people, despite being a multiplayer game we aren't here to help others. People are also allowed to play with whoever they want, be that people at their level or not. Are there people in group 1 willing to help group 2? Absolutely, I've done it myself, but I'm not going to help every random person I come across or I'd never get anything done, and most night I don't want to spend 4+ hours in a raid I've cleared 40 times when I could just crubstomp it in 2 by getting people at my level.

    People in group 2 need to just learn to use youtube and guides, it's insane how easy it is to get geared in this game and start pugging.

  6. #86
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015


    In general, this requires certain restrictions, in our case - closed server "community"(besides without any automation), and so people with progress will be interested in more "accessible and educated" participants for any social perturbation (in case of replacements and movements). And since rest of people will be motivated to get content and progress (and these elements should have the same organization basis) together and have no different way than to listen to those, who are smarter and more experienced, they will be inclined to heed what will be explained to them... how many such topics could be produce?.. After all, it's still simple:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Still just very long period of wrong world/servers/content+progress and mechanisms of social regulation/organization... and nothing more. People just adapt to survive in conditions "imposed" by devs <= this is key/main reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    5. About dungeons&requirements also M+/modes (+RNG+g.tokens+t/wf) +(+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+)+(+)+(+/+/+)
    6. Bad
    world (and not only) scaling +(+)+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+
    Little about loot policy +(+/+/+)
    Servers type/org (WM&MMO+changes'soc.psycho.res+auto/subscr) +(+/+/+/+/+)+(+)+(+/+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+/+)
    Quests/leveling (&levels) +(+/+)+(+)
    Threat philosophy & badge system & W.Boss mechanics (it's not mine, but I won't do this better) +/+/+
    Age-long, I’m afraid that it’s so long that it has already turned into chronic disease, which "local doctors" prefer not to notice.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-06-03 at 07:11 AM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

  7. #87
    I've done my progress, I don't want to do it again every week whilst after a few bosses on an alt. If you start late you should form your own progression group.

  8. #88
    This thread is an agenda thread.

    If you are casual and you want to join the world of progression, there are plenty of progression guild looking for raiders. Group 1 is not a closed group, people come and people go. There are plenty of average guild struggling at 8 pm at 18 people waiting and waiting. They will be GLAD to have you, assuming you also show up to raid on their schedule.

    But that is not what you want, isn't it.

    You don't want to be those pathetic 18 people waiting and waiting and waiting. You want the 18 people to finished their raid and carry you, to "help out group 2".

    how about you help them out, "but I don't have time to do progression, I have a life".
    Last edited by gobio; 2020-06-01 at 04:06 AM.

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