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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Shango View Post
    Salute o7

    So to start things off im still fairly convinced that I am in fact not the bad guy, but considering 12 people just told me i am a dick and only 1 guy was on my side I feel like sharing my story, or ranting, you name it.

    After missing my guilds hc raid this week and sitting at ~4600 titan residium i decided to join a hc nyalotha raid to try grab any azerite piece for its scrap value. (my char is currently sitting at ilvl 475 so i dont need anything else in there) Vexiona dropped her headpiece and immideatly afterwards i got whispered by a hunter if i was so kind to trade it to him, considering i allready have Carapace Loot and would most likely not need it.

    I declined and got called out in raid chat for being a selfish dick. At that point i was like i was like "eh, is that guy serious?" but people were kinda quick to side with him. Arguments were being made for me to just wait for next reset because i was sure to receive enough residium to just be guaranteed to buy a piece of gear that only had a chance to be an upgrade while our groups hunter was guaranteed an upgrade (if i traded him).

    I pretty much did not react in chat, only thing i typed was that the sole reason i joined the raid in the first place was for a few shots at 200 residium so i could try get an upgrade at the azerite vendor. (i failed at that btw, not that it would matter)

    Either way, raid leader (being premade with the hunter) told me to either give the headpiece to his hunter friend or be kicked. Told him that i still dont see a reason to to do so and got shafted. After being kicked one pala heal whispered me saying he would not even have a problem if i decided to keep the item for transmog purposes.

    What are your thoughts? The group i joined were mostly randoms (4 guys from one guild) and still seemed to agree that i was being selfish.

    Edit: a few things that people keep asking

    1st: I did not know any of these people nor did i get informed about any loot rules or special purpose of the raid (like trying to catch up people that a behind on gear)

    2nd: the exact echange between the hunter and me was the following:

    https://imgur.com/IAZAcqQ

    3rd: I did not initially pick this one up because frankly i did not matter to me, the hunter did fine for his gear, though he was the weakest DPS, and yes, he would have profited from the upgrade. DPS numbers (there was another hunter above me at 113k dps, i am #2 the hunter this post is about is #10) were:

    https://imgur.com/d0VCUU4
    You're under no obligation to help anyone else out in a PUG. Fuck em if they can't take a joke. No, you're not the bad guy here. They're the selfish pricks who think they should get to tell you what you should do with your randomly awarded pixels.

  2. #342
    Never loot, always let the mailman bring it to you. This is *exactly* why.

    You were 100% in the right.
    Avatar given by Sausage Zeldas.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Shango View Post
    The exact exchange was the following (can still deliver a screenshot if needed)

    Hunter: need head mate ?
    Me: i do, sry
    Hunter: you have 475
    Hunter: how the fuck you need a 460 head ?
    Me: i need it to buy an azerite piece which is exactly the reason i joined this raid i nthe first place
    Hunter: so you needed 200 fucking residuum
    Hunter: lol
    Hunter: ok

    Edit: Apparently i cant add a screenshot/link or at least i dont know how to
    your mistake was replying, just blank them.

    EOD its your loot so it up to you what you do with it. ive sharded things in front of people who get pissy about it just to make a point.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    Your loot, your choice, fuck everyone who thinks otherwise
    I second this response. HEAVILY.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Another thing people are ignoring is that he DIDN'T consider it. He just flat out said no then he got kicked for it. There was absolutely no consideration on his behalf. And people like him don't announce that they plan on mulching gear because that pisses people off.
    So you think its ok for someone to make a raid, invite their scrub geared friend then hound players into giving you loot for your badly geared friend that doesnt want to put any effort into gearing himself from WoWs dozen of sources for free loot. He should be able to harass players who are maybe there for other reasons than gearing the scrub lord and giving them loot and if they dont they get kicked from raid out of spite.

    AWESOME LOGIC BROOOOOOO
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  6. #346
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    So you think its ok for someone to make a raid, invite their scrub geared friend then hound players into giving you loot for your badly geared friend that doesnt want to put any effort into gearing himself from WoWs dozen of sources for free loot. He should be able to harass players into giving them loot instead and if they dont they get kicked from raid out of spite.

    AWESOME LOGIC BROOOOOOO
    Well, that's isn't what they are saying. People are not arguing what should be done. In fact, I think everyone agrees OP was 100% in the right for his actions. We are arguing on whether or not the action was selfish.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You are really good at projecting. It fits the definition of selfish, thus is selfish. YOU are justifying the action on why it wasn't wrong and conflating that with whether or not it was selfish. It is YOU trying to fit a narrative, not I.

    You are ignoring the evidence to make your argument. The definition is on my side, not yours. The events support ... he joined to get a piece to attempt for a upgrade, no matter how hard you twist that his reason for joining and keeping that piece was selfish. Just because you can't understand how definitions work doesn't mean I am wrong.
    Ok, let's assume you're correct. So fucking what? At the end of the day, it's OP's loot, and nobody else's. Claiming a greater need for something that didn't drop for them is more selfish. Fight me.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, that's isn't what they are saying. People are not arguing what should be done. In fact, I think everyone agrees OP was 100% in the right for his actions. We are arguing on whether or not the action was selfish.
    give me some of your stuff, mail it me, i want it.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, that's isn't what they are saying. People are not arguing what should be done. In fact, I think everyone agrees OP was 100% in the right for his actions. We are arguing on whether or not the action was selfish.
    Yeah a loot thread about a stagnant mmo's loot "policy" is a great place to discuss the philosophy of altruism
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  10. #350
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Ok, let's assume you're correct. So fucking what? At the end of the day, it's OP's loot, and nobody else's. Claiming a greater need for something that didn't drop for them is more selfish. Fight me.
    At the end of the day it doesn't matter. What I dislike is that when people twist definitions and even more so when they use that twisted definition to tell me I am wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    give me some of your stuff, mail it me, i want it.
    Well, I am selfish about my stuff, so no.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-06-01 at 12:35 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    So you think its ok for someone to make a raid, invite their scrub geared friend then hound players into giving you loot for your badly geared friend that doesnt want to put any effort into gearing himself from WoWs dozen of sources for free loot. He should be able to harass players who are maybe there for other reasons than gearing the scrub lord and giving them loot and if they dont they get kicked from raid out of spite.

    AWESOME LOGIC BROOOOOOO
    Lol wow way to completely take everything out of context. The guy is allowed to do whatever the hell he wants. I can't control what he does. But actions have consequences. If he's gonna be selfish as fuck and just mulch gear after someone nicely asked for the piece of gear, they can get kicked the fuck out. The majority of people don't want to raid with leeches. People raid to get gear. So when you're taking that gear and mulching it, you're a leech. Because someone else who could have used the gear could have been in your place. so therefore, you can get kicked and replaced by someone who isn't a leech.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Lol wow way to completely take everything out of context. The guy is allowed to do whatever the hell he wants. I can't control what he does. But actions have consequences. If he's gonna be selfish as fuck and just mulch gear after someone nicely asked for the piece of gear, they can get kicked the fuck out. The majority of people don't want to raid with leeches. People raid to get gear. So when you're taking that gear and mulching it, you're a leech. Because someone else who could have used the gear could have been in your place. so therefore, you can get kicked and replaced by someone who isn't a leech.
    "Selfish prick" because he didnt want to keep handing over loot he had hoped to drop to scrap.

    How about people dont be annoying and whisper you as soon as loot drops so people can actually enjoy the raid and not feel guilt tripped into gearing up random strangers.

    If people want to give away their loot they should say so in raid chat and let everyone have a chance to roll for it not just the person whispering everyone while not doing trash or helping the raid and are only thinking about themselves.

    this is why people dont even loot mid run anymore and just wait for it from a mail box. No annoying spam/drama
    Last edited by Volatilis; 2020-06-01 at 12:39 AM.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  13. #353
    Let's ask Blizzard to stop the chat from announcing drops when loot type is set to personal.

    Problem solved.

  14. #354
    Your loot, your choice.

    However:

    Their raid, their choice.

    If it's right for you to keep gear that is an upgrade for someone else for selfish reasons, it is also within their rights to kick you from the group for a selfish reason as it is their group just in the way it is your loot. Nobody was right or wrong because there's no defined terms of what is right or wrong in this case. You exercised your right to keep a piece of personal loot instead of trading it and they exercised their right to remove you from their raid for any reason they deem fit.

    In other words, either you both did perfectly reasonable things or you were both dicks. In the end, who cares?

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    I disagree, its an item he purposely went in for, because he has a specific purpose for it. On top of that, 15ilvl is neither here or there it may have well been an upgrade for him as far as the hunter was concerned.

    obv we don't know the facts but I think its a safe assumption the hunter kicking up the fuss and the RL were probably 2 of those 4 in the same guild
    What do you disagree with, I'm with the OP, the pally also agreed that he could keep the loot.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by javierdsv View Post
    Let's ask Blizzard to stop the chat from announcing drops when loot type is set to personal.

    Problem solved.
    That is a terrible idea.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    Your loot, your choice.

    However:

    Their raid, their choice.

    If it's right for you to keep gear that is an upgrade for someone else for selfish reasons, it is also within their rights to kick you from the group for a selfish reason as it is their group just in the way it is your loot. Nobody was right or wrong because there's no defined terms of what is right or wrong in this case. You exercised your right to keep a piece of personal loot instead of trading it and they exercised their right to remove you from their raid for any reason they deem fit.

    In other words, either you both did perfectly reasonable things or you were both dicks. In the end, who cares?
    Perfectly said good sir.

    We had similar issue in yesterday's guild HC run.
    Our lock had 465 ring from before and decided to keep the 465 ring that he got in the run since its +15 haste increase.
    On the other side, it was +15ilvl upgrade to our Hunter in that slot.
    Lock didnt even replied on polite question "Hey, do you need that?"
    Two bosses later, simply to poke him, our Hunter called Lock "Prick"
    It was not super ill intended as we communicate like that.
    First next wipe, caused by the Lock - Lock left. Followed by his wife, healer.
    Logged out. exited discord without a word.
    This is all happening in a guild run.

    Now thats dick behavior. Not what you did.

    You joined PUG raid with set goal. As said above, you had your reason, they had their own.
    Looking at it from your side - nothing wrong done, really not.
    However, looking from the side of Raid Leader, which is there to gear his guildie, you choose to keep loot that you TECHNICALLY dont need.
    So, if something else drops for you, theres a high chance that you wont pass it, therefore you are "dead investment" - you top the chart but you keep what you get.
    They simply decided to boot you and replace you with more "cooperative" player.


    Quote Originally Posted by javierdsv View Post
    Let's ask Blizzard to stop the chat from announcing drops when loot type is set to personal.

    Problem solved.
    This is easily bypassed by addons that already exist.
    rclootcouncil

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And do you know what consideration means? Careful thought. Now if you actually think carefully is your basically enchanting shard worth more to you than that helmet upgrade is to the other person? No of course not especially when you have the skill/items to be above that level and they can't even get a full guild group.

    This is what you guys seem to be unable to understand. If the situation was that the hunter was asking for the helmet to shard it and the op was getting a full item upgrade it wouldn't be selfish to keep it as when you consider everything your need is greater than the hunters.
    I understand perfectly.

    You're conflating that the value of the item to the hunter outweighs the value of the item to the OP. Which, again in a purely technical sense, you're correct. But when applied to the practical situation, it doesn't matter WHAT the value is to the hunter. It could be a brutosaurus drop that no one in the raid has(yes I know that doesn't happen). Does that mean that the person who wins the roll should just give it up because it also holds some value to another player?

    The hunter in question has ZERO claim on the drop. None. Everyone in the raid entered it with no prior agreements or arrangements, leaving everything up to the RNG of the personal loot system. As I said before: There's nothing wrong with the hunter asking if he can have the drop. But the conversation ends when the actual receiver of the drop says "No." That is the ENTIRE POINT of personal loot(something I argued vehemently against back before the removal of master loot, btw).

    Would it have been cool and super altruistic for the OP to give up the item? Sure. But it is also absolutely NOT selfish to keep the item either. In fact, his decision to keep the drop was justified by the entitled, petty, and rude reaction that the hunter and the rest of the raid had after. Whatever value the item may have had to the hunter was nullified by that behavior.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I understand perfectly.
    snip.

    The hunter in question has ZERO claim on the drop. None. Everyone in the raid entered it with no prior agreements or arrangements, leaving everything up to the RNG of the personal loot system. As I said before: There's nothing wrong with the hunter asking if he can have the drop. But the conversation ends when the actual receiver of the drop says "No." That is the ENTIRE POINT of personal loot(something I argued vehemently against back before the removal of master loot, btw).
    .
    Its even simpler than that.
    There were no loot rules changes on which PUG raid agreed on beside games enforced personal loot.
    You have the right to keep what you get. On other hand they have the right to boot you and replace you since you are, as i said above "dead investment."
    You top the cart, however you do not share.
    Its simple as that.
    However, its down to personal moral choice too, which is different in all of us.
    I would choose to keep him, in a long run hes top DPS, therefor to some extend carry.
    He would help easier ride trough the raid and faster Achievement grab.
    U get the Achievement, you will more easily get into new raid to increase your chances for upgrade from bosses which did not drop an upgrade during raid in issue.

    But again. I like to think on long run gain as well as having fun.
    Thats personal opinion.

  20. #360
    (SPOLIDER NEIR AUTOMATA DON'T READ)













    Imagine playing NEIR : AUTOMATA

    And you see this : [Bros] [you finished you game] [delete your save] [I am entitled].

    And would you still delete your save? (regardless of the fact that the dude probably deleted their save for it to show on your screen nor those statement are not actually available)
    Last edited by gobio; 2020-06-01 at 02:09 AM.

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