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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Loving fire, but yeah... the reliance on combustion makes the time out of combustion feel lack luster. Narrowing the difference could make it feel better, dunno tbh.
    They tried this in legion (because they were listening to trade chat feedback lulz) and fire went from good (with bracers) to total crap in nighthold (except meme aoe fights like skorpy or tichondrius
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    On the 3 bosses infinite stars isn't trash tier on (and all 3 are early/easy bosses).
    After reading that, I went to warcraftlogs again and did some checks. I just randomly selected people from EU/US. I actually assumed I was way more off with my 38% statement but it turns out, that I am actually not THAT far off in most cases.


    Wrathion:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 36%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 35%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 35%

    Maut:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 30%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 31%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 32.5%

    Skitra
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 39%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 32%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 37%

    Xanesh:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 32%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 30%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 35%

    Hivemind:
    Obv Stars is very bad here

    Shad'har:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 53% (lol) + 35%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 37%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 37%

    Drest'agath:
    Also bad here

    Vexiona:
    Not a good fight either since there are those very short intervals with Adds, but if you would go purely for boss damage, the result would be comparable to Skitra

    Ra-Den:
    Depending on Tactik, Twilight Dev is def. stronger overal, pure Boss damage is around ~20-25% Infinite stars (e.g.)
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    Il'gynoth:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 29%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 26%
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done - 29%

    Capace / Nzoth:
    Not infinite Stars fights




    So yeah, that are 6 bosses where it is very strong, 2 where it is "ok" if you do not go for logs but for progress and 4 where it is bad. And its not even just the trash bosses.

    In the other fights feel free to replace "infinite stars" with "Twilight Devestation"
    That does not really make it better, does it?

  3. #103
    The Lightbringer
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    Last tier is always like this, classes aren't balanced around/scaled well with, the absurd amounts of stats suddenly available right now.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I know math, you don't. And this has been proven good amount of time.
    Higher the burst the shorter fight will be.

    Infamous iron reaver going down in 18s.
    clap clap clap.
    The famous raid progress with one dps class! Ho wait! It was overgeared arcane mages 8 months after the raid release...
    Who the fuck cares?

    Overgeared full dps hight burst class will kill in 18s what an overgeared full dps normal burst class could do in a minute.

    Guess what genius. If you take two fire mages to pl your raid, nothing will change. You won't down the boss faster. You will only grap a few seconds if the fight end up on one of their burst window.
    If you make a full group of fire mages not overgearing bosses, you will simply wipe.
    And if you do a full dps group of any other overgeared class with good burst you might also kill the boss it will just be a bit longer.

    But then again who cares?

  5. #105
    Immortal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    That's not the problem at all. Heroic NY is still current content and these mages are not clearing it "relatively fast", they are completely destroying it. If you compare this to someone clearing old content then you're completely crazy. Heroic NY is not obsolete old content.
    For world first mythic raiders, HC Nya'lotha is rather obsolete.

    Yeah, it's not a direct comparison with soloing old raids, but the principle is the same in that you're talking about characters who have progressed significantly beyond the scope of what that particular content was meant to do. And that is just fine.

    If this sort of thing was being done in Mythic, or by average players, or 4 months ago, there would be a significantly stronger case to be made that there is a real problem. But really, this is stuff being done by players who finished the actual content, on the hardest difficulty, months ago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    <snip>
    But then again who cares?
    Well clearly there are people who do care. The real question is why do they care?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    After reading that, I went to warcraftlogs again and did some checks. I just randomly selected people from EU/US. I actually assumed I was way more off with my 38% statement but it turns out, that I am actually not THAT far off in most cases.

    <snip>

    So yeah, that are 6 bosses where it is very strong, 2 where it is "ok" if you do not go for logs but for progress and 4 where it is bad. And its not even just the trash bosses.

    In the other fights feel free to replace "infinite stars" with "Twilight Devestation"
    That does not really make it better, does it?
    Part of the point of the corruption mechanism is that it is supposed to grow stronger over time in order to effectively nerf the content in the way that, in the past, they would have done by flat out raid nerfs.

    For example, at this point in ICC progression, everyone had a +30% straight up buff.

    The time for being concerned about balance or gear becoming too overpowered is past. The content is done by the vast majority of guilds who actually put the effort into doing any form of organised raiding. Now it's just time to mess around and have a bit of fun at the end of a longish expansion, while we wait for the Shadowlands.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Only if you already have enough dps to put the boss under the burst class offensive cd's, this will never happen during progress.

    Stuff is heavily outgeared now favoring burst, you will always see stuff like this at the end of an xpac.

    - - - Updated - - -



    At a point it didn't matter in any way.
    You sound like the fun police.
    Not only if you have enough dps. Look at what world first race looked like. Limit: 4 fire mages, 2 destro locks. Method: 5 fire mages, 2 destro locks.
    So yes it did happen during progress.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by reanimatez View Post
    Not sure why this is even a thing, think it's terrible design. One of the many reasons why I'm not currently raiding, let alone playing lol.
    It's because the devs like to put themselves into the impossible corner with these detached power thingies. You don't even have to be a dev to see through on it and just /facedesk.
    I never minded powerful, fun trinkets tho, Deathbringers will in icc? It wasn't just for one class/spec. Everyone was powerful with that, it looked cool etc. The other one in DS? The volley one. It was fine.
    Mops feral(?) one from ToT? Now that's something else.

  8. #108
    The Patient LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Not only if you have enough dps. Look at what world first race looked like. Limit: 4 fire mages, 2 destro locks. Method: 5 fire mages, 2 destro locks.
    So yes it did happen during progress.
    Yeah as i said it is a balancing problem during progress if these classes do not have considerable downsides for having these huge burst windows (which is the case this raid tier), however the design of burst windows itself isn't necessarily the problem and for the sake of variety it should stay.

    And the reason why it looks so out of proportion now as it did in hfc with arcane mages (but also sub rogues and enh shamans) was end of the expansion madness and blizz not giving any F's anymore (the wod ring was completely out of bounds when maxed if you think about it, it just never got maxed during the first few months, same as now with corruptions and the cloak).

    Just wait until you see maxed out cloaks and what funny things will happen with that, it's not really a problem though, let players have their stupid fun at the end.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Just wait until you see maxed out cloaks and what funny things will happen with that, it's not really a problem though, let players have their stupid fun at the end.
    Regarding stupid fun: I'm still sad that Blizz didn't let us equip all our legendaries at the end of Legion. Just for two weeks or so. Could have been so much fun.
    Then again, the transition to BfA would have been even worse than it already was, and maybe they knew that...

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