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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I recently came back to wow after a break since the beginning of bfa. I leveled a bit, worked on my gear and eventually joined a heroic raising guild who I've been with for just over a month.

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.

    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.

    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.

    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    This is how it feels to be back to a game where everyone else has done the content and you are new to it.

    This is how it feels even now(not just you, even me, I'm a 12/12M raid leader) if you don't get in for the first few pulls on a boss and you get brought in for a rekill. You are nowhere near the experience level of those that have "learnt"(and made mistakes) the fight and killed it the first time. Their mistakes arent explored because everyone else was making those mistakes too but now you just feel like the odd one out.

    There are many advantages to learning a fight - You can make mistakes, you learn from other's mistakes, you know the cooldown timings, etc. You don't have the luxury of those.

    Don't get discouraged, go into shadow lands strong, you will have an even play ground and you won't feel bad.

    PS: If anyone takes a break from WoW, i never judge them based on current tier, because they rarely have the same experience we do as a guild/team. There is a lot to coming back mid tier, (id say this tier is done and dusted now though), you need proper essences, you need proper azerite, you don't know the CD timings/kill times, even if you've watched 100 videos you lack firsthand experience of mechanics and sometimes even rotations/play style for a class changes due to essence/tier bonuses etc.

  2. #22
    Being bad at WoW is keyboard turning and clicking your actions.

    This is WoW just becoming unnecessarily fiddly.

    Everyone played encounters with boss mods on, so they made encounters more complex to match. To the point where something like Ra-den Mythic has so much shit going on every guild just goes fuck it, and makes everyone use the Weak Aura. Even then it just says something like "VOID" and you have to know what that means.

    As for M+, it's a case of rote memorisation. The mechanics will kill you on high levels, no way to figure them out as you go along because you'll be dead. Run them on lower levels. Boost a noob group through a +1 - +5. If you can explain the mechanics, you're ready to do them on higher levels. They don't change, it just gets so that you can't make any mistakes. The only thing that really changes is that on +10 and above you can skip enormous stretches of irritating trash.

    Everyone who has been playing since the start forgets that not everyone has.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    For one thing, your profile says you're a Keyboard Turner. You REALLY need to learn to use a mouse for movement.
    Keyboard turner is an automatically generated title based on post count. I'm not going to assume you have herald of the titans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    is this a thing in WoW? Trials.. in raids?? Specially in heroic ones, not mythic? wtf you play WoW to take your mind off your job and the real world, and now you gotta work your ass off in a video game too? wtf
    I guess you haven't been around in the game for more than a couple of weeks. Yes, this has and will always be a thing. You don't work your ass off, you are just being judged on your performance to see if you are good enough to keep around.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    is this a thing in WoW? Trials.. in raids?? Specially in heroic ones, not mythic? wtf you play WoW to take your mind off your job and the real world, and now you gotta work your ass off in a video game too? wtf
    Hi there, yes raiding-guilds are a thing and have been for quite some time, and they have rules & trials as opposed to the anti-social pugging world.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexSignal View Post
    Just to add - over the years I've seen so many ex-raiders applying with "I used to be hardcore in Wrath" - and they've been completely useless keyboard turners.
    Be aware of thinking like that - Wrath was a long time ago.

    It's cool that you used to be hardcore raider, but that is in the past. You need to put in the work now, to learn the current game.
    Lol, someone else said it for me.

    Pretty much every single "Used to be amazing hardcore ultra raidur at Vanilla-->Cata" player that comes back is beyond shit, can barely keep up, and more than likely a keyboard turner and they get a good shock when they cant keep up at anything.

    Unless you were in an actual top 50-100 guild sometime in your life and not just "Yeah i killed HC LK 12 months after it came out" and/or never quit the game and adapted over the years, you are probably very very very bad at the BFA/Legion versions of it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    WotLk was a different time. Bosses had like 3 mechanics back then. Bosses and m+ nowadays are a constant storm of 20 different abilities overlapping and trying to murder you and if you're not used to that you'll just get fucked - which looks especially bad when you compare yourself to people who had months and years of time to get used to all that stuff.

    You became when you stopped playing for 10 years and everyone else didn't while the game was constantly evolving and getting more and more complex.
    This. Raids in wow now a days is insane. I stopped raiding in cata, now its so much more complex, that even Heroic Ragnaros, is normal.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    This. Raids in wow now a days is insane. I stopped raiding in cata, now its so much more complex, that even Heroic Ragnaros, is normal.
    Ragnaros and Lich King 25 HC would still be considered very difficult bosses if they were released today. Sure, they would pale to the vast majority of end bosses, but still be vastly more difficult than the rest of the raids, and equal to the hardest penultimate bosses of today.


    I would rate those two about the same as Fallen Avatar Mythic. The penultimate boss of the hardest raid in the history of WoW.


    And even then, the only endbosses that are on a completely different level would be Archimonde (before high lvl rings allowed you to brute force him), Kil'Jaeden and Uu'nat. Go one expansion later, and Lei Shen 25HC is easily just as hard as every BFA Mythic endboss except for Uu'Nat.


    I don't quite understand the sentiment that todays raids are supposedly much more busy than those of Cata and MoP. Classic and TBC, oh hell yes. WotLK? Most of the bosses sure, but Ulduar still had some extremely hectic bosses even by todays standards, and Anub 25HC and LK 25HC would have been roadblocks for many guilds if they were released as "wing bosses" of a modern raid. As for Cata, if T11 in its entirety was rereleased today with Cata class design, I bet a lot of guilds would have found it just as challenging as the likes of BoD and EP.

    Imo, the main difference between the modern era and the Cata/MoP era of raiding, is that stuff is more difficult to avoid today. If there's a void zone that spawns under you, you would have had 4 seconds to move from it back in WotLK, 2-3 in Cata/MoP, while in any raid from WoD or later, you need to cancel whatever you are doing, and move instantly, or risk getting oneshot.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2020-06-02 at 08:15 PM.
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  9. #29
    "I haven't read the Harry Potter books, and everyone is out there talking about all these characters and what they're doing and I got no clue about the plot. When did I become an idiot?"

    You didn't. You're just lacking information.

    The remedy, consequently, is getting that information.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post

    This is WoW just becoming unnecessarily fiddly.
    I left early in the expansion and this is what I felt it building up to. I'm not nostalgic 'for the simpler days' but I do wish I didn't have to draw up spreadsheets for my character to such a ludicrous degree to sit near the top of the game now. Systems on systems. I just want to gear up and study my rotation! Gems and enchants are fine but why do I Have like 4 ancillary factors all with completely random and daunting maths multipliers to add into my characters progression now?! Like...please I want to stat for haste and have haste be good, not acquire an item or skill that changes my entire approach to the thing and suddenly it's mastery I need to be stacking!! That's fine every once in a while for a trinket but it's for nearly everything now, It feels like starting over every goddamn time and I can't have less gear or items in my bag like they claimed to want because what if that changes back!


    WoW was fun for me, challenging to a point, but not... tiring. It's tiring now. Really really tiring. So much effort to get close to the top and now it asks so much of your time to be there. I didn't want to have to do so many things in the game to 'maintain my edge' but I guess that's how it works. That and the story didn't really engage me.

    If you enjoy that. Fine. Cool. Have fun with it, I'm not gonna fight you on it. But I did not remember getting this tired just trying to enjoy the difficult content. It's too much and Mythic + granting gear for raiding progression can eat my entire rear end. Challenge mode was fine, hell even keep the timers and leader boards but leave it the hell out of raiding.
    I have eaten all the popcorn, I left none for anyone else.

  11. #31
    You became a bad player as soon as you quit raiding the hardest mode.

    The guild sound like dicks and the only way you are going to lose the 'bad player' label is too top some meters. That means learning mechanics, not dying, and working out the best way to boost your numbers.

    You like the guys and loot is personal so that is a bonus. Just be cool, help out people's alts if possible, do above and it will all blow over for SL. You will be on equal footing then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    Hi all,

    I really like this guild and I've enjoyed being back in the game, yesterday was meant to be the end of my trial but I was told by the officers that they've extended the trial due to errors I've made during raids. I can't recall all the errors, but I remember yesterday that I messed up standing in the right spot for vita on raden, ran through people with paranoia on nzoth a few times and also died on nzoth.
    If you've made errors, you should focus on how to avoid those errors specifically the next time you raid. Look up some videos about the fights and mechanics you screwed up. If they guild isn't willing to help you through a couple errors then they may not be the group for you. I don't think I would have extended your trial. I would have invited you to the guild proper and said I'd like to see you shore up these weaknesses and ask you if there was anything we could suggest or do to help you fix these issues. If you're lost on a mechanic, you should be able to ask someone you raid with how they handle the mechanic or what they look out for to avoid screwing it up. Honestly, anyone should be willing to answer that question without being dicks about it. If they can't answer it, it's red flag number one imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    I've also enjoyed doing mythic+, but at times I find it a bit overwhelming especially with how tight the timers are. It seems like everyone else knows exactly what to do, but I often make mistakes that hold the group back.
    Likewise, I would recommend watching some guides, but maybe you should do lower keys until you get a hang of affixes and refresh your memory of the dungeons. People in your group have likely been banging away at this content for months and just want it done quickly. The novelty has worn off for them and I think most people are really short on patience with the current content.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    I'm worried now that even if I pass my trial I will always be seen as a bad player. Meaning I don't get invited to groups etc or if I am its seen as doing me a favour or as a carry.
    You shouldn't take it so seriously. You're in a heroic guild that's making you trial for an overly extended period when the content has been out for a loooong time. What's more, I assume they understand you just came back. It sounds like when you make a mistake, they put a tally down in a book and hold it against you, but they don't seem to be helping you correct your mistakes. I wouldn't classify them as a cesspool guild exactly, but they may not be the guild for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollowHills View Post
    The weird thing is back in the day I was a hardcore raider, for instance I mained a blood dk and cleared heroic icc 25 during wrath and raided heroic all throughout cata.

    So my question is what changed? How have I ended up in this spot.

    When did I become bad at wow?
    You just came back and they've been doing this content for almost two years. You need more muscle memory and familiarity with the dungeons and, possibly, a slower paced guild or a guild with more patient people. Did you come back, get some gear and jump right in to heroic? Maybe you should practice the fights in Normal to make sure you can get those key mechanics squared away.

    Practice and preparation makes perfect in WoW, especially if your reflexes have slowed down. I don't believe that people should just jump into heroic and expect to do things perfectly when the game has changed, but likewise, I think your guild is maybe being a bit dramatic about your "mistakes". You just need more practice.

    You aren't actually on equal footing with this group of people, not because of your ability, but because they have more time invested in the game at this point. You're going to need to practice, which means either pugging or finding a group in the guild who is more understanding with the fact that you need a little time.

    Or you can do what I did. Come back, make gold and say fuck being good in BFA because these core systems are a shit sandwich and every day is one more bite.

  13. #33
    i become bad when i try to make gold in auction house

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