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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    To be fair, with the stat corruptions, our secondaries are going to be absolutely nuts by the end of this expansion. The reset was worse after legion than any other reset, and I suspect this one will hit even harder. The more you have of a secondary stat, the more the 12% corruption will grant you, which gives you even more secondary stat, which will grant you even more for your next 12% boost. I currently only have 36% haste with one Exp III. At the OP's current 62% haste, the next Exp III will grant them 69%. And then 77%, and then 87%. Not sure if we'll see more than that, but that amount of Exp III seems reachable.
    Stats effects such as Expedient, Versatile, (...) don't multiply, they add. So the effect is linear rather being exponential. That's why after 4 or 5 stat corruptions, you'll start seeking for something else instead, in most cases.

    By the way, agree with OP regarding shadowlands, time will be hard for secondary stats junkies. Was quite similar during Legion, gear was free, epics were falling from the sky. And then BFA started, with lots of "BFA is slow", "BFA worst gameplay ever" (...) forum posts... And unsubs.

    Blizzard should find some way to fix this issue. If progression was just about numbers it would be fine...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    Just play a spec that doesn't use haste, easy solution.
    Well all specs in the game feel terrible with no haste. The 1.5 second base global is atrocious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naville View Post
    Stats effects such as Expedient, Versatile, (...) don't multiply, they add. So the effect is linear rather being exponential. That's why after 4 or 5 stat corruptions, you'll start seeking for something else instead, in most cases.
    Could've sworn I read it was multiplicative, but I'm no min maxer, lol

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    After going from a 100% ArPen Blood DK DPS in ICC to Cata.. You have nothing to even talk about feeling bad come the start of a new Expansion.
    Which is kinda funny because they were dabbling around giving us ArP in Cata

  4. #44
    The global doesn't affect much as a caster. As Holy priest, I'm sitting at 8% haste, sure casts are a bit slow, but it's not too bad honestly.

  5. #45
    crit/mastery/vers/int/agi/str don't change gameplay for most classes at all.

    Haste. Well new expansion launches and all of a sudden you only press half as many buttons than before. It sucks and it's stupid - for years. This is probably the biggest part why classes feel so damn awful every time an expansion launches compared to the end of the last expansion.

    And it's mostly only haste. I wish blizzard could fix this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    The global doesn't affect much as a caster. As Holy priest, I'm sitting at 8% haste, sure casts are a bit slow, but it's not too bad honestly.
    It's not about haste in general - if you never went for haste in the first place you obviously didn't lose much with the new expansion. But for someone who stacked a ton of haste it feels horrible.

  6. #46
    And then there is feral, who just want high crit with predator talent :d I removed my 12% haste roll on a 475 ring to get 4% crit dmg now even...
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  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    Which is kinda funny because they were dabbling around giving us ArP in Cata
    It was more the fact I went from a full arPen DPS to a Tank.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    >Account created 10 years ago
    >Cannot imagine expansion reset

    Might have created forum account long ago but not actively played the game much so not used to power resets. Don't shoot so quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post

    It's not about haste in general - if you never went for haste in the first place you obviously didn't lose much with the new expansion. But for someone who stacked a ton of haste it feels horrible.

    And don't forget about run speed. When my 150%+ runspeed paladin went form Legion to BfA it felt like playing without legs.
    DK is even worse. Yeah I'm a sucker for runspeed even when it's not a true combat stat.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    This.
    Until I get some raid gear Shadowlands will be jarring. It was really really bad when going from Legion to BfA my character suddenly became slow as a snail.
    There has to be progression, but it does not have to be extreme when going from exp to exp.
    LOL Easo, your signature! Roflmao. That was a priceless moment

  10. #50
    So the consensus of this is that HASTE is a problematic stat, as it fundamentally affects how the game is played. And makes me not even bothering to play WoW at .0 - .2 patches because how awful it feels to play with 1,5s GCD. I played only 7.3 in Legion and only 8.3 in BFA. Guess what, it was fun. 8.0 was unplayable, I quit after playing for 10 hours in total at level 120.

    Critical strike - sometimes your abilities do more damage
    Mastery - your few specific abilities do more damage
    Multistrike - your abilities proc additional damage and it looks kinda cool.
    Versatility - your abilities do more damage. The most "boring" stat but frankly, it works similar to all the others

    None of those stats affect how I play my character, how many buttons I'm pressing and how engaging the combat gameplay loop is. There is no noticeable difference between my spell critting 10% of the time and 50% of the time. Unless this is something like WOD Kill Shot in PvP, then it might be noticed as this ability could crit really hard.

    HASTE is a whole different kind of beast. Having no HASTE is just not fun. It imposes a long GCD, hampers resource gain, creates downtime in rotation. And it affects ALL parts of the game, even soloing old raids.

    Blizzard should just remove this stat from gear and replace it with Multistrike or ArPen. Something that does not affect fundamental gameplay and behaves more in line with the other stats that just increase damage (more or less). And the GCD itself be made to 1 second with heroism being the only "general use" method of increasing your haste. Outside of very specific cooldowns like adrenaline rush or something.

  11. #51
    it has been getting worse last few expansions....

    stats is probably the part people care less about when compared to the borrowed abilities or no new abilities issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athulua View Post
    So the consensus of this is that HASTE is a problematic stat, as it fundamentally affects how the game is played.
    i'd say rotations that work around crit procs or mastery procs can be in the same boat.

    i sure remember procs being a rarity on my hunter early in the expansion and now they happen so often you tend to waste them.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Most of the feedback I'm seeing is that the slow down from expansion to expansion isn't that bad on Shadowlands
    at least the covenant stuff comes online pretty quickly so you are not stuck waiting 10 levels before anything starts feeling good again.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    BFA: Heroic dungeons drop 330 (at launch), max non legendary ilvl 480. Nearly twice as much of a gain in item level. Three secondary power systems (azerite, essences, corruption) that combined at least double and maybe triple character power.
    It's actually more ridiculous than that. In Uldir we did about 20k ST DPS in Mythic gear, now we're doing more than 100k ST DPS. An increase of five times the power we had when fully raid geared.

    EDIT: Uldir is not called EN.
    Last edited by Arainie; 2020-06-04 at 07:09 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    It's actually more ridiculous than that. In EN we did about 20k ST DPS in Mythic gear, now we're doing more than 100k ST DPS. An increase of five times the power we had when fully raid geared.
    EN as in Emerald Nightmare? You lost me

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    EN as in Emerald Nightmare? You lost me
    Sorry, I meant to say Uldir but just slipped back all the way to EN!

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    It's actually more ridiculous than that. In Uldir we did about 20k ST DPS in Mythic gear, now we're doing more than 100k ST DPS. An increase of five times the power we had when fully raid geared.

    EDIT: Uldir is not called EN.
    This, this is what needs to be observed. Also most ppl did 10k DPS struggling, but now even a bad player in wow can do 50k single. And AOE sustained close to 75-100k prolly. I dont think we have had such a power increase before, can anyone renember how much say sunwell, ICC or something scaled us? I dont think naxx40 was as bad etc.
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  17. #57
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Yeah I relaly don't like how slow I feel at the start of an expansion(BFA) and I'm totally feeling awesome(In terms of how my rotation is) by the end of it. I don't like it. Not a fan of removing haste either, has to be a better way.
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  18. #58
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    haste is too powerful. certain specs that need a certain amount of haste to feel "right" should have a flat gcd reduction to reach that point baseline.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    This, this is what needs to be observed. Also most ppl did 10k DPS struggling, but now even a bad player in wow can do 50k single. And AOE sustained close to 75-100k prolly. I dont think we have had such a power increase before, can anyone renember how much say sunwell, ICC or something scaled us? I dont think naxx40 was as bad etc.
    Don't forget the HP, I remember hitting 100k a few weeks after capping and it felt really cool - now some geared dps aren't far off 700k - it's insane

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozu View Post
    Haste is the stat that I believe they should just have everyone start at significantly higher and balance accordingly. There's not a single person who enjoys when their character plays slow as shit for 75% of an expansion.
    Agree so much on this one. I dont even play some alts/classes/speccs because its casting time is just a pain and stupidly boring, and it takes too long time to enjoy it.

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