I now have 62% unbuffed haste.

[spalernTJ]

The global doesn't affect much as a caster. As Holy priest, I'm sitting at 8% haste, sure casts are a bit slow, but it's not too bad honestly.

[Clozer]

crit/mastery/vers/int/agi/str don't change gameplay for most classes at all.

Haste. Well new expansion launches and all of a sudden you only press half as many buttons than before. It sucks and it's stupid - for years. This is probably the biggest part why classes feel so damn awful every time an expansion launches compared to the end of the last expansion.

And it's mostly only haste. I wish blizzard could fix this.

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The global doesn't affect much as a caster. As Holy priest, I'm sitting at 8% haste, sure casts are a bit slow, but it's not too bad honestly.

It's not about haste in general - if you never went for haste in the first place you obviously didn't lose much with the new expansion. But for someone who stacked a ton of haste it feels horrible.

[Djuntas]

And then there is feral, who just want high crit with predator talent :d I removed my 12% haste roll on a 475 ring to get 4% crit dmg now even...

[Super Kami Dende]

Which is kinda funny because they were dabbling around giving us ArP in Cata

It was more the fact I went from a full arPen DPS to a Tank.

[Big Thanks]

This.
Until I get some raid gear Shadowlands will be jarring. It was really really bad when going from Legion to BfA my character suddenly became slow as a snail.
There has to be progression, but it does not have to be extreme when going from exp to exp.

LOL Easo, your signature! Roflmao. That was a priceless moment

[Athulua]

So the consensus of this is that HASTE is a problematic stat, as it fundamentally affects how the game is played. And makes me not even bothering to play WoW at .0 - .2 patches because how awful it feels to play with 1,5s GCD. I played only 7.3 in Legion and only 8.3 in BFA. Guess what, it was fun. 8.0 was unplayable, I quit after playing for 10 hours in total at level 120.

Critical strike - sometimes your abilities do more damage
Mastery - your few specific abilities do more damage
Multistrike - your abilities proc additional damage and it looks kinda cool.
Versatility - your abilities do more damage. The most "boring" stat but frankly, it works similar to all the others

None of those stats affect how I play my character, how many buttons I'm pressing and how engaging the combat gameplay loop is. There is no noticeable difference between my spell critting 10% of the time and 50% of the time. Unless this is something like WOD Kill Shot in PvP, then it might be noticed as this ability could crit really hard.

HASTE is a whole different kind of beast. Having no HASTE is just not fun. It imposes a long GCD, hampers resource gain, creates downtime in rotation. And it affects ALL parts of the game, even soloing old raids.

Blizzard should just remove this stat from gear and replace it with Multistrike or ArPen. Something that does not affect fundamental gameplay and behaves more in line with the other stats that just increase damage (more or less). And the GCD itself be made to 1 second with heroism being the only "general use" method of increasing your haste. Outside of very specific cooldowns like adrenaline rush or something.

[Hellobolis]

it has been getting worse last few expansions....

stats is probably the part people care less about when compared to the borrowed abilities or no new abilities issue.

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So the consensus of this is that HASTE is a problematic stat, as it fundamentally affects how the game is played.

i'd say rotations that work around crit procs or mastery procs can be in the same boat.

i sure remember procs being a rarity on my hunter early in the expansion and now they happen so often you tend to waste them.

[kaid]

Most of the feedback I'm seeing is that the slow down from expansion to expansion isn't that bad on Shadowlands

at least the covenant stuff comes online pretty quickly so you are not stuck waiting 10 levels before anything starts feeling good again.

[Arainie]

BFA: Heroic dungeons drop 330 (at launch), max non legendary ilvl 480. Nearly twice as much of a gain in item level. Three secondary power systems (azerite, essences, corruption) that combined at least double and maybe triple character power.

It's actually more ridiculous than that. In Uldir we did about 20k ST DPS in Mythic gear, now we're doing more than 100k ST DPS. An increase of five times the power we had when fully raid geared.

EDIT: Uldir is not called EN.

[Ragnarohk]

It's actually more ridiculous than that. In EN we did about 20k ST DPS in Mythic gear, now we're doing more than 100k ST DPS. An increase of five times the power we had when fully raid geared.

EN as in Emerald Nightmare? You lost me

[Arainie]

EN as in Emerald Nightmare? You lost me

Sorry, I meant to say Uldir but just slipped back all the way to EN!

[Djuntas]

It's actually more ridiculous than that. In Uldir we did about 20k ST DPS in Mythic gear, now we're doing more than 100k ST DPS. An increase of five times the power we had when fully raid geared.

EDIT: Uldir is not called EN.

This, this is what needs to be observed. Also most ppl did 10k DPS struggling, but now even a bad player in wow can do 50k single. And AOE sustained close to 75-100k prolly. I dont think we have had such a power increase before, can anyone renember how much say sunwell, ICC or something scaled us? I dont think naxx40 was as bad etc.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah I relaly don't like how slow I feel at the start of an expansion(BFA) and I'm totally feeling awesome(In terms of how my rotation is) by the end of it. I don't like it. Not a fan of removing haste either, has to be a better way.

[docterfreeze]

haste is too powerful. certain specs that need a certain amount of haste to feel "right" should have a flat gcd reduction to reach that point baseline.

[JoakimB]

Haste is the stat that I believe they should just have everyone start at significantly higher and balance accordingly. There's not a single person who enjoys when their character plays slow as shit for 75% of an expansion.

Agree so much on this one. I dont even play some alts/classes/speccs because its casting time is just a pain and stupidly boring, and it takes too long time to enjoy it.

[Vakir]

>Account created 10 years ago
>Cannot imagine expansion reset

Secondary values this high weren't as possible without Corruption.

[exochaft]

The subject itself is completely subjective, as difference specs favor different stats (some don't even want haste, like BrM). If there is a complaint to be had, it would be that many specs don't feel satisfying without power creep in the game. Whether the max haste (or crit, mastery,etc) ends up being 10% or 50% at the end of an expansion doesn't matter, as the ideal scenario is that the spec would feel good to play regardless of the haste values. It's akin to the common complaint about spec's only feeling good/complete with the borrowed powers they gain in an expansion, when the base spec should feel satisfying, as well.

[Count Zero]

Yeah, haste is terrible to lose. It's the one stat you feel.

I was thinking about that recently - how DH dps is the only melee spec I like, because it's the only one that I get a sense of tactile feedback from. Actually even more so than most casters in my experience, but I'm more comfortable playing ranged.

But I wonder how they can address this. I know a lot of people have the same concerns, about their abilities/spells just having no "oomph". I think this might be helped in Shadowlands with the new settings that can reduce the effect of others' spells on your screen, so that yours stand out more.

I also kinda wish that instead of Vers they left in Amplification as a stat - increasing the effects of your crits. And that maybe there could be a slight correlation between how much Amp you have and the visual/sound effect of your abilities, so that as you have more of it you just feel like you're hitting harder. I guess they could just do that with Vers too.

But it would be great if they did just something, anything, to help with that visceral feel.

[WintersLegion]

The damage would of course be balanced around having more baseline haste. The result would be the same damage except everything plays much faster for you. Seems like a no-loss situation to me.

No it would still have the same affect because the 50% becomes normal that means when you go back down to 50% it will still feel extremely slow. Just like how going from a char with 310 riding to one with 280 feels like the 280 one is going so slow.

[Count Zero]

The subject itself is completely subjective, as difference specs favor different stats (some don't even want haste, like BrM). If there is a complaint to be had, it would be that many specs don't feel satisfying without power creep in the game. Whether the max haste (or crit, mastery,etc) ends up being 10% or 50% at the end of an expansion doesn't matter, as the ideal scenario is that the spec would feel good to play regardless of the haste values. It's akin to the common complaint about spec's only feeling good/complete with the borrowed powers they gain in an expansion, when the base spec should feel satisfying, as well.

There're competing complaints from the playerbase, tho. People want to feel like they're getting stronger as they level/gear, but they also want to feel "complete" as a baseline.

Maybe this would have been possible if they knew in advance how many expansions they would do over the course of the game, but without being able to plan the overall curve in advance the power resets are simply necessary.