Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ...
4
12
13
14
15
LastLast
  1. #261
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    City of Judgement
    Posts
    5,267
    If the queues are already an issue, I can't imagine how much worse it will be if wow went F2P. There would probably be 10x the amount of players as there is now, so they would need to open a load of new servers, which is something they try to avoid if possible.

    My gold making blog
    Your journey towards the gold cap!


  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    If the queues are already an issue, I can't imagine how much worse it will be if wow went F2P. There would probably be 10x the amount of players as there is now, so they would need to open a load of new servers, which is something they try to avoid if possible.
    Queues are high has nothing to do with size of playerbase.

    For PvE there is simply no reason at all to go LFR and this is pretty ok, especially this far in patch. Once LFR was first released queues were relatively short.
    Same goes for HC dungeons, no reason at all, and again, not bad because it doesn't force players that far outgear the content to run easiest content.

    For PvP it's simply faction imbalance. Make a mode FFA where you are jus being clumped with other people regardless of faction and queue times literally disappear.

  3. #263
    Nah, i would not like WoW turned to F2P model. Especially when it's led by a greedy company like Activision-Blizzard.

    You wouldn't pay for subscription, sure. But you would need a premium account to play this game without losing your mind.
    Example premium account features, routinely encountered in other MMO-s:

    -Queue priority. Non-premium users suffer long waiting times. Given that we can already experience long waits on large servers, on F2P it would be nearly impossible to play without a PACC
    -Limited bag space. Imagine that you only have your backpack and one bag slot in bank and inventory. Premium account users get full access equivalent to today capacity. They could even go beyond that and implement POE model, in which you can buy additonal bag slots on top of regular Premium membership, eg extending your inventory to 10 bag slots for a price (priced like $5 per bag slot)
    -Significantly increased leveling times, heirlooms locked behind premium membership. Paid XP boost to max remains, also paid XP potions could pop up. Eg $5 for +100%XP for 24h potion.
    -Paid reputation boosts, return of time-consuming dungeon attunements, but unlike TBC, with paid items available to completely skip them
    -Queueing systems locked behind premium membership. You still could enter LFR or LFG with premade groups and walk there... yeah, right.
    -Addon support locked behind premium membership. Non premium account just wouldn't load them, you press enter world and you see generic UI with all addons turned off.

    Technically you could still see all the content in the game without paying anything. But that would be made significantly harder and more inconvinient. Sure, it's not a big deal if you are completely new to the game and just want to try it out without having to overcome a large financial entry barrier, but once you cap and start playing endgame it would be unbearably annoying to not pay for PACC and paid features. You'd end up paying more money for this game than you currently do. That's how they are designed in the first place - draw you in, hook you up and then milk you hard.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Athulua View Post
    Nah, i would not like WoW turned to F2P model. Especially when it's led by a greedy company like Activision-Blizzard.
    Tbf, what Blizzard does with wow atm is the opposite of greedy.
    They could adjust the sub price to how currency has changed over the years (sub would be $21 ish) but instead they made an optional shop for those who want to pay more.

  5. #265
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Back in MOP they were saying the team was 300 and wanted to keep growing to deliver yearly expansions.....
    Then at some point they said the number had scaled down to under 200....(after wod i think)
    It would help if you could cite where you're pulling your numbers from.

    Anyhow, according to Gamepedia, in 2014, Blizzard divided it's development staff into teams of 100-300 people. Which means WoW had a development team consisting of between 100-300 people (likely being on the bigger end of that scale being one of their bigger IPs.

    This picture here was taken in 2017 and is of the entire development team. Which by my estimation puts the team somewhere in the region of 200-250 people.

    You'll notice that I italicised the word development. The development team isn't everyone who works on WoW. Nor does it include the company executive. If I were to guess, I'd say that sales, marketing, finance, legal, customer support are probably at least double, probably even more, the number of developers (hence why Blizzard has 5K employees).

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Even if everyone gets paid 4k/month (which i highly doubt), 4000 x 200 = 800000 -> almost half leftover
    Firstly, the cost of employing someone is a lot more than just their salary. There is rent, furniture, utilities, computer equipment, software licences etc etc etc.

    Secondly, your estimate of what they earn is massive off.

    https://www.payscale.com/research/US...ainment/Salary
    https://www.zippia.com/activision-bl...rs-155/salary/

    On average they are earning around 90K. Even their lowliest employees are earning close to 60K. And you were guessing 48K as the upper end?


    Even if you're being extremely conservative, there is no way that WoW costs less than around $50M a year in salaries alone. Once you add other expenses it's likely well of $100M.

    So to get it to survive on less than $20M of income would require them to chop between 60 and 80% of their staff. It would also mean a similar reduction in their ability to deliver content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    And this is all IF the game only had 100k players left. And we're not counting the base game price, and store transactions.
    If you start to consider what the real numbers are (instead of making up fantastical numbers that fit your narrative), it makes a lot of sense that Blizzard need to use the shop to boost their revenue. If they didn't, they'd either need to cut costs (which means less development) or tell their shareholders to accept less profits (which means no more WoW).

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Check out the shop on the AoC website. They are selling the game with alpha/beta access in different packages including one that is $375 that includes 9 months of game time with a $135 value. That is a $15 a month of game time. It also has $125 in cash shop currency. Even if it was free to play it is clear they are having a subscription as part of the core model
    This is sad. A "indie" with sub is a fail.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by kugarm View Post
    This is sad. A "indie" with sub is a fail.
    Yeah, how dare they ask for money for their work! It's outrageous!

  8. #268
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    One path
    Posts
    4,041
    They want to double-dip, I wish they'd stick with one or the other and cut it out entirely with the gametime-tokens making people play to be able to continue playing. The amount of boosters and AH-goblins is insane and to me provides awful gameplay experiences. Then again the monthly sub is probably the only reason everyone's not been completely screwed by Activision yet.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  9. #269
    The Lightbringer Wries's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    3,984
    No model is perfect. I think this one is the one I prefer, though. Mostly nothing in-game is hounding me to open my wallet just once more to perhaps gain a significant advantage, like when I played Vindictus some years ago.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    The sub is fine. What is it? Far less than a round on a night out (remember those?). The game without it would be an absolute shambles.
    It already is lmfao

  11. #271
    I would be happy with lower expansion price

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    Thanks to the WoW Token everything can be earned in Game, and trust me the cash shop is nowhere near as bad as ESO or Guild Wars 2, starting with Bag slots (ESO and GW2), to one sub only crafting bag (Sub only!) the huge account of money for DLC and chapters... there is nothing free about having fun in those two games!
    Rationalize it away and convince yourself otherwise all you need to. You see someone riding around on a cash shop mount, everyone else just rolls their eyes at them. That's just as true in WoW as it is in not-free-to-play games.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    And that is just dumb. Everything is earned with real money because of the subscription. And most things in-game can be bought with boosts and tokens so there is no "prestige" difference.
    See above.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by kugarm View Post
    This is sad. A "indie" with sub is a fail.
    As opposed to an indie game with just a cash shop? Why is it that one stream of revenue is failure but one is the greatest thing ever? Oh right. One allows you to play some of the game for free while the other doesn't allow you to be a freeloader.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    Rationalize it away and convince yourself otherwise all you need to. You see someone riding around on a cash shop mount, everyone else just rolls their eyes at them. That's just as true in WoW as it is in not-free-to-play games.
    Which is still dumb. It is dumb to roll your eyes at someone just because they decided to like something enough to buy it. There is no way to tell if the person has the Mythic Jania mount when content was current. With out a boost to buy it. Or anything else that would "lower the prestige". Stop being so judgemental and so arrogant against stuff.

    That is a toxic attitude. It doesn't matter the source. Not to mention it is hypocritical because I highly doubt you look down upon those who bought a CE of the game. It is just some arbitrary rule against "cash shop" items when plenty of things are bought with money and ultimately doesn't matter at all to the game. No one uses items for prestige. They use them because they like them. I don't use my Dreadwake mount for the prestige of having a 6-month sub. I use it because I like it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #274
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    Rationalize it away and convince yourself otherwise all you need to.
    Rationalize what away exactly? It seems to me you're just making an issue of nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    You see someone riding around on a cash shop mount, everyone else just rolls their eyes at them.
    No, not everyone else. A few grumpy individuals maybe. Personally I smile when I see someone riding a shop mount because clearly it's something that the person is enjoying.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Izzyfurious View Post
    Anyone who thinks WoW current present day community is **** tier. Have obviously never seen LoL's One in comparison.
    WoW's community is a lot more toxic than it was a few years back.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    No, not everyone else. A few grumpy individuals maybe. Personally I smile when I see someone riding a shop mount because clearly it's something that the person is enjoying.
    That. That is the rationalizing I was talking about.

  17. #277
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    That. That is the rationalizing I was talking about.
    To rationalize (in this context) is to attempt to justify some irrational behaviour or attitude with reasoning that is fundamentally flawed.

    If you're going to accuse someone of rationalizing something, maybe it would help if you could outline exactly what it is they're trying to rationalize and why their reasoning is flawed.

    Ironically, if we look at what you're doing, it fits the bill of "rationalizing" perfectly. You've expressed an irrational hostile attitude towards the shop and anyone who uses it. And your reasoning seems to be simply that "everyone else" shares your disdain - reasoning that is flawed on two fronts: firstly making an unfounded assumption about what the attitude of everyone else is, and then you're making an appeal to authority fallacy.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2020-06-10 at 08:34 AM.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    Yeah it's ok when FF does it but that's ok beacuse catgirls.

    >:3
    Nice try mate but in FF14 the costs are *significantly* cheaper, a level boost alone costs you 1/3rd of the cost compared to wow, where as wow legit costs you what amounts to a game in value.

    Square's cash shop is still scummy, but at least its affordably scummy, instead of making things absoleutley unreasonable.

    And, Square does *not* have a Token currency you can buy to earn instant gil, like wow, which encourages even more spending for free virtual money.


    Honestly when your paying £50 for a character boost in wow, vs a £17.50 boost in 14, we can clearly tell which one is significantly more lenient.

    But prices and that affair aside, it is true the age of subscription mmo's are dying out and frankly wow has almost no reason to be a sub mmo in 2020, infact tbh it hurts it "more" to attach a mandatory sub when so many people have already left, they should, have made the game buy to play, especially if they want to compete with other subscription based mmo's currently doing significantly better (like 14).
    Last edited by CaptainV; 2020-06-10 at 08:36 PM.

  19. #279
    Plenty of spineless and toxic kids spinning out of control in games like Legue of Legends.

    My friends used to get death threats (not that it means anything) but it shows what free games can possibly bring to the community.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    Nice try mate but in FF14 the costs are *significantly* cheaper, a level boost alone costs you 1/3rd of the cost compared to wow, where as wow legit costs you what amounts to a game in value.

    Square's cash shop is still scummy, but at least its affordably scummy, instead of making things absoleutley unreasonable.

    And, Square does *not* have a Token currency you can buy to earn instant gil, like wow, which encourages even more spending for free virtual money.


    Honestly when your paying £50 for a character boost in wow, vs a £17.50 boost in 14, we can clearly tell which one is significantly more lenient.

    But prices and that affair aside, it is true the age of subscription mmo's are dying out and frankly wow has almost no reason to be a sub mmo in 2020, infact tbh it hurts it "more" to attach a mandatory sub when so many people have already left, they should, have made the game buy to play, especially if they want to compete with other subscription based mmo's currently doing significantly better (like 14).
    We can agree on many of these things, but FF14 are most certaintly not doing better than WoW. Every estimate I can find put FF14 at less than 1 mill subs. That's WoW classic alone.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •