Going from casual to seriously playing still sucks ass

[ymirsson]

I don't think I agree with this...not feels more like blizzard chasing bad again. Much like when they went after the cellphone "gamer" market for wow in wrath.

The old model was successful people progressed at different rates. I am unsure how successful this new model honestly is. It could very well be that after a decade of change they alienated so much of their old audience that they now have a new far more smaller and fickle core of players then they used to.

Nah, the playerbase is as smallminded and fickle as always, just more visibly, thanks to social media.

[tmamass]

how have they reverted their mistakes?*They are still forcing players to go through BFA to level.

no you are not you can level 10-50 in outland, wotlk, cata, mop, wod, legion OR bfa.
you can freely chose in which xpac you level to 50....

[Gorsameth]

You miss my point.
Most content is tuned to be done by skilled players WITHOUT any corruptions. But historically Blizz has nerfed content bit for bit at the end of expansions, or gave players buffs. Corruption is this buff. You don't NEED it to do the content, but the content gets easier if you have it. Or in the case of m+ Corruption gives you the means to progress even when there is no better gear to get.

You quote IS at 30% of your damage. This is about equal to the 30% Buff in ICC, DS and SoO. System is working as intended.

Of course it's more frustrating for players who need those buffs to progress. But they can easily catch up, since you get far more echoes and gear than you will ever be able to use, since the cloak has a very slow progression of 6 corruption per week. Do your 5 and 4 Mask run every week, run a +15 and do your desired content normally and you'll have all the corruptions you'll ever need and the echoes to target specific ones too.

Yes, Corruptions is inconsistant. But this only concers damagewhores. Btw IS gets weaker the better your raid gets, so at some point it might be better to go for passive Corruptions, meaning that you can avoid rng inconsistencies alltogether.

Yes, in terms of gradually nerfing content Corruption is working as intended but the perception on players is vastly different.

Person A played throughout the patch, Person B returned 2 weeks ago.
In the past person B would be doing say, 90% of person A's dps. And the boss having 30% less health doesn't change that.

By scaling player power up, instead of boss hp down. You have person B doing 60% of Person A's dps. And while the boss dies just as fast as in the past. The difference in perception is massive. Playing B feels like he is woefully behind and sees no real chance to catch up to person A. He feels useless because his damage is so low.

In a multipleplayer game, and any game really, the way players perceive your mechanics is as important, or more so, as the way the mechanic works behind the scenes.

Yes, previously you had people feeling bad because they beat the nerfed version of a boss and they complained about that. And the new system has that less because you don't see that big debuff of -30% hp stare you in the face and its hidden by your own power increases but on the flip side your punishing returning players instead and increasing the need to grind which leads to more burnout.

I obviously don't have the numbers but I wonder how big the burnout has been among mid-tier players as a result of the AP system, both in Legion and now in BfA. That constant need to keep playing, to keep grinding drains people. And based on a power progression cap being added in SL's I think Blizzard has noticed it aswell.

[Rinaul]

Can't be worse than BfA which just failed on every level.

Classes looks so much better in Shadowlands than BfA already and that is before the legendaries comes into play that will alter rotations and playstyles like in Legion. So if you have geared up one, then you can gear up your alts. The incentive to play alts in Shadowlands is like Legion, and not in BfA where you just don't do it because it's so boring across the board. Getting those awesome sets and doing the campaigns is going to be great. So the gearing part bit might actually fit the expansion as a whole.

Replayability is the key. And Shadowlands got that, while BfA do not. It's already winning by a mile.

Let loot be loot.

Unless they implement the system where you can buy your legendary item specifically like they did in the final patch this will be feast or famine all over again. Some specs were total garbage until they got the right leggo via rng which meant days to months of being absolutely useless compared to those who had the ones they needed. Might as well be doing Nzoth without the cloak

[Gorsameth]

no you are not you can level 10-50 in outland, wotlk, cata, mop, wod, legion OR bfa.
you can freely chose in which xpac you level to 50....

alts can chose. a new player doesn't have the choice and will only be able to do BfA.

[Doffen]

Unless they implement the system where you can buy your legendary item specifically like they did in the final patch this will be feast or famine all over again. Some specs were total garbage until they got the right leggo via rng which meant days to months of being absolutely useless compared to those who had the ones they needed. Might as well be doing Nzoth without the cloak

You can add whatever thing you want on the Shadowlands seeing they are craftable. The pattern you get are also bind on account.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/legen...ms-shadowlands

They said they have learned, just like they shown they had learned from it when making corruption...:>

And nice comparison there, spot on!

[LordVargK]

Yes, in terms of gradually nerfing content Corruption is working as intended but the perception on players is vastly different.

Person A played throughout the patch, Person B returned 2 weeks ago.
In the past person B would be doing say, 90% of person A's dps. And the boss having 30% less health doesn't change that.

By scaling player power up, instead of boss hp down. You have person B doing 60% of Person A's dps. And while the boss dies just as fast as in the past. The difference in perception is massive. Playing B feels like he is woefully behind and sees no real chance to catch up to person A. He feels useless because his damage is so low.

In a multipleplayer game, and any game really, the way players perceive your mechanics is as important, or more so, as the way the mechanic works behind the scenes.

Yes, previously you had people feeling bad because they beat the nerfed version of a boss and they complained about that. And the new system has that less because you don't see that big debuff of -30% hp stare you in the face and its hidden by your own power increases but on the flip side your punishing returning players instead and increasing the need to grind which leads to more burnout.

I obviously don't have the numbers but I wonder how big the burnout has been among mid-tier players as a result of the AP system, both in Legion and now in BfA. That constant need to keep playing, to keep grinding drains people. And based on a power progression cap being added in SL's I think Blizzard has noticed it aswell.

You make valid points. Especially about AP burnout. I played 7.0 and 7.3. 8.0 and 8.3. Precisely because I hate the need to constantly farm AP.
I resubbed about 2 months ago and really don't have any BiS Corruptions. Just random ones, mastery here, haste there, increased crit damage... I'm not even close at my Cloak cap (although it is rank 15) and I have more resistance than corrpution. Still I am able to compete with my guildmates and do quite well on the logs. Because even those random Corruptions give me a DPS boost, but you don't notice it as easily.
IS, TD and the other procs appear in the logs. Passive Corruption does not. But it still increases your damage. As you said, it's all about player perception.
Yes, TD for Tanks is OP, but imo Tanks are so important in 8.3 that they deserve it.
The only things a returning player needs to do is to get their cloak to 15 (takes about 5-6 weeks of casual play) and farm some essences.
Yes, that's more effort than just getting carried through a raid once or twice. And I understand that this creates a mental barrier. But it's just that: a mental barrier.

Considering the estimated release date of SL, if those systems now were not in place then there would be already complaints about a content draught. You can't do everything perfectly.

Of course I'd prefer not to have Corruptions, Azerite or Essences and instead have a glyph system with effects like the Legiondaries. And have a (perfectly tested) SL release in August. But that's not happening.

One last thing: Everything I state is from the perspective of DPS classes. For healers the current systems are horrible. Like really, really horrible. Tanks have it difficult at first and easy after a few weeks. But healers... HV is not really balanced around them, most Corruptions are useless for your role and your essences seem kinda lame. While I absolutely enjoyed playing a healer in 8.0, I don't really know how to start one now, since my heal characters don't have the possibilites that my DPS characters have.

[ntlntl]

I understand that Blizzard made this patch too much grind for returning players. Gating rank 3 essences behind reps is just a dirty way to push people into Najarta and Mechagon island. The earning rate and its time-gated nature are very annoying. I can only log in 3 days a week, having to spend like 1 hour doing those reputation "chores". Going at this rate, I expect to get exalted with Najarta zone within 3 months...

However, we should not view those essences, corruptions, and azerites as "forced" nor "bad". They are to further the power of the character. They are supposed to be longed for, as rewards for hard work. After about 2 weeks hating the system, I kind of understand why they put those in place. It creates replayability for geared people to re-do the "content" of the game. They allow some customisation or at least an illusion of such. There is some depth in changing the stat priority, azerites, and essence. My shaman can do more haste and cast many lava burst. I could also do more crit for mana return as restore and for better % To dispell magic effects with Cleansing water PVP talent. I could pick the Pack Spirit and play like a druid, or get the tides azerites to play like a heal bot. It is really working as intended.

Those rank 3 essences aren't much if we look closely. They are just some bonus minor effects to have. farming from rank 1 to 2 extending the minor proc from 4 to 6 second is not worth the effort imo. We simply have to accept that old players are better, and we accept the current state of gearing. I do have fun playing low keys MP, and random BG. My shaman doesn't have much gear, all rank 1 essence, 1 default corruption from the main questline. And I play fine, top healing done in BG sometimes. The game is fun if we play at our level.

In short, just play the game, essences and corruption will come. It takes time to go serious.

[protpaul]

I understand that Blizzard made this patch too much grind for returning players. Gating rank 3 essences behind reps is just a dirty way to push people into Najarta and Mechagon island. The earning rate and its time-gated nature are very annoying. I can only log in 3 days a week, having to spend like 1 hour doing those reputation "chores". Going at this rate, I expect to get exalted with Najarta zone within 3 months...

However, we should not view those essences, corruptions, and azerites as "forced" nor "bad". They are to further the power of the character. They are supposed to be longed for, as rewards for hard work. After about 2 weeks hating the system, I kind of understand why they put those in place. It creates replayability for geared people to re-do the "content" of the game. They allow some customisation or at least an illusion of such. There is some depth in changing the stat priority, azerites, and essence. My shaman can do more haste and cast many lava burst. I could also do more crit for mana return as restore and for better % To dispell magic effects with Cleansing water PVP talent. I could pick the Pack Spirit and play like a druid, or get the tides azerites to play like a heal bot. It is really working as intended.

Those rank 3 essences aren't much if we look closely. They are just some bonus minor effects to have. farming from rank 1 to 2 extending the minor proc from 4 to 6 second is not worth the effort imo. We simply have to accept that old players are better, and we accept the current state of gearing. I do have fun playing low keys MP, and random BG. My shaman doesn't have much gear, all rank 1 essence, 1 default corruption from the main questline. And I play fine, top healing done in BG sometimes. The game is fun if we play at our level.

In short, just play the game, essences and corruption will come. It takes time to go serious.

No these systems are trash. Power should be tied to accomplishments not busy work. Climbing the difficulty ladder? Every step should offer more power.

Do a daily quest that awards 10g? You should only ever get 10g. Bot some weird magical currency to grind the same mindless quest over and over again.

Legion was really the starting point for these truely terrible systems.

[music49]

For being serious in PvP you gotta have rank 3 in a bunch of essences + the right corruptions. For being serious in PvE it's the same story different corruptions/essences.

I wanna take the game seriously but truth is the game encourages me to not take the game seriously, asks me to farm some mounts and transmogs, and then do my weekly stuff.

Don't bother doing LFR, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Normal mode, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Heroic, you can't link experience to join them. Don't do Mythic, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Don't do PvP, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Forget about doing M+ your RIO rating sucks ass.

Remember to forget about doing your visions if you want to play a healer.

Stick to doing your emmesarries and maybe a weekly +15 chest. Then stop playing. That's what it feels like.

How do you guys break that cycle? You find a Heroic raiding guild that is willing to carry you or what?

On one hand I understand what you mean. Having to do a list of chores every week just to stay current is a pain. On the other hand though you can't be expected to be handed a raid spot in a high end raiding guild or pvp group when your not willing to put in the work and others are. Its a fine balance that I'm sure blizzard struggles with everyday making sure people can do what they are capable of with out it being handed to them.

Best you can do is find a guild that plays the way you want to play and go from there.

[Hashtronaut]

Well if the other guy didn't convince me you sure did, guess I won't be doing any arena until shadowlands or classic TBC. That gearing process also seems bloated. And, from what I understand to be able to have the gear required to clear mythic 15 is a process itself.

[tmamass]

alts can chose. a new player doesn't have the choice and will only be able to do BfA.

no, EVERY new player can chose in which xpac he wants to level.

[Gorsameth]

no, EVERY new player can chose in which xpac he wants to level.

New players are sent through the new 1-10 Exile's Reach zone to learn the ropes of the game and their class. After finishing that content, they are automatically taken to the content for Battle for Azeroth for leveling 10-50. Experienced players are given their choice of where they do their initial leveling and which expansion content to level up in from there.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...s-level-squish