Page 29 of 31 FirstFirst ...
19
27
28
29
30
31
LastLast
  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Blood Elves make zero sense as Shaman/Druids anyway. They're the descendants of the Highborne that were the complete opposite of snorting leaves and walking barefoot.
    Come on, if you are going to have An Opinion, at least read the rest of the conversation

    "the complete opposite" is functionally not a thing when Nightborne owe their future, and have large aspects, based on the marriage of arcane and druidism

    War2 High Elves are describes as druidic, so there's a historical through-line that could be reframed

    They are elves, so they are fully capable of druidism

    They have a huge gash of dead terrain they have been trying to heal for years.

    They have worked alongside druidic races for years.

    You have to learn to separate from what you'd like, than what is possible. And if Tauren learned to be Paladins -regardless how you feel, those are facts- it's as likely that BE's could take up drudism; there are valid reasons for that.

    When you say "makes zero sense" it either means you have not actually given it any thought, or that you are to biased to see the actual reasons. Do some self exploration.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Yeah, I think it could make for a wonderful arc and, as you say, could help them shimmy out of the corner they've been written into a bit recently (being the token Light-wielders on the Horde side)!

    I can see the arguments against blood elven druids, but I've wanted to run around as a lynx and fly as a dragonhawk for ages! Not sure what I'd do about bear form though... Their stag could be a unicorn for a Quel'dorei throwback
    Yeah, it's the shapeshifting that would make it a harder sell for me; sure they could just learn it, but TBH I would really prefer something that makes more sense culturally than animal shapeshifting -and as I said before, aspects a la Hunter, or Farstrider, could be neat-

    More-over, thinking specifically through nightborne, what if their default shapeshifting looked like the mask illusions in Suramar? "Projection" instead of "Shapeshifting" could fit the NB/BE culture and aesthetics much better, while mantaining the exact same functionality -and of course, customizable like any other arce through the barber shop-

    I just love the idea of "Druidism" being used as a wider scope archetype, to allow more fantasy. If we get class skins someday, just imagine mech based "forms" for gnomes! I mean, Tinker as a class skin could work great; Astral powers are laser based, healing is either healing rays or alchemy, shape shifting are different mechs.

  2. #562
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,283
    I believe it's a mix of Druidic magic and Arcane magic that allowed the thalassians to thrive within their runestones

    not sure how a runestone made it to Caer Darrow though
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Come on, if you are going to have An Opinion, at least read the rest of the conversation

    "the complete opposite" is functionally not a thing when Nightborne owe their future, and have large aspects, based on the marriage of arcane and druidism

    War2 High Elves are describes as druidic, so there's a historical through-line that could be reframed

    They are elves, so they are fully capable of druidism

    They have a huge gash of dead terrain they have been trying to heal for years.

    They have worked alongside druidic races for years.

    You have to learn to separate from what you'd like, than what is possible. And if Tauren learned to be Paladins -regardless how you feel, those are facts- it's as likely that BE's could take up drudism; there are valid reasons for that.

    When you say "makes zero sense" it either means you have not actually given it any thought, or that you are to biased to see the actual reasons. Do some self exploration.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, it's the shapeshifting that would make it a harder sell for me; sure they could just learn it, but TBH I would really prefer something that makes more sense culturally than animal shapeshifting -and as I said before, aspects a la Hunter, or Farstrider, could be neat-

    More-over, thinking specifically through nightborne, what if their default shapeshifting looked like the mask illusions in Suramar? "Projection" instead of "Shapeshifting" could fit the NB/BE culture and aesthetics much better, while mantaining the exact same functionality -and of course, customizable like any other arce through the barber shop-

    I just love the idea of "Druidism" being used as a wider scope archetype, to allow more fantasy. If we get class skins someday, just imagine mech based "forms" for gnomes! I mean, Tinker as a class skin could work great; Astral powers are laser based, healing is either healing rays or alchemy, shape shifting are different mechs.
    Nightborne owe their future, and have large aspects, based on the marriage of arcane and druidism
    Do they? Or is a guy manipulating plant life using Arcane ?

    War2 High Elves are describes as druidic, so there's a historical through-line that could be reframed
    Retconned like 15 years ago

    They are elves, so they are fully capable of druidism
    Long ears have nothing to do with Druidism. They have strong ties to the Arcane and now the Light, not Nature.

    They have a huge gash of dead terrain they have been trying to heal for years.

    They have worked alongside druidic races for years.
    And?

    You have to learn to separate from what you'd like, than what is possible. And if Tauren learned to be Paladins -regardless how you feel, those are facts- it's as likely that BE's could take up drudism; there are valid reasons for that.
    Tauren always made sense as Paladins.

    Their society follows the same values. Blood Elves don't care about Nature. Hell their entire homeland is a twisted manipulation of nature. They used magic to lock their forests in eternal spring.

    or that you are to biased
    You're the one bringing up lore from 20 years ago that was never mentioned again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Haha, I really don't think blood elves would suit the shaman aesthetic no matter how hippy some rangers might be, but I think there's scope for Sin'dorei druids who are more like terraforming magisters/particularly sylvan Farstriders than Malfurion/Cenarius-loving Kaldorei druids. The Gilneans came to "druidism" through their harvest witchcraft and I think other races could fit the druid gameplay mechanically through other magics/philosophies.
    The Gilneans practised Nature Magic and have roots in it due to the Vrykul. Blood Elves make no sense. Like a Druid banned their magic, forced them into exile across the world. Why would they even try? It's completely anathema to their way of life.

    Their homeland is a twisted aberration of nature, a forest forced to always be in full bloom and never experience autumn or winter.

  4. #564
    high botanist freywinn


    earthcaller franzahl

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Do they? Or is a guy manipulating plant life using Arcane ?
    I'm referring specifically to the Arcandor, which is shown as an harmonic unification of druidism and arcane

    Retconned like 15 years ago
    hence I'm referring it as a historical through-line and not "canon", I'm talking about the re-framing of old lore.

    Long ears have nothing to do with Druidism. They have strong ties to the Arcane and now the Light, not Nature.
    The point is that while you can make the case that humans might not be able to perform druidism without outside help, elves can. You know, such as night elves, who also have strong ties to the arcane and light.

    And?
    I don't know Brent, they might want to heal that gash that crosses their whole kingdom??

    Tauren always made sense as Paladins.

    Their society follows the same values. Blood Elves don't care about Nature. Hell their entire homeland is a twisted manipulation of nature. They used magic to lock their forests in eternal spring.
    "Blood Elves don't care about Nature" and "Tauren always made sense as paladins" Great, now we know your subjective view is very skewed. Only what you deem sensible makes sense, and simply discard any instances of Blood Elves regard and for nature, did you miss the Farstrider Quests in Eversong Woods? Did you do the quests in the scorched groove?

    And again, the fact that troll druidism is far less based on nature respect and more in animal aspects, further points to a rather subjective approach to your "doesn't make sense"

    Cause again, I personally don't care if BE get to be druids, but I'm not going to be an hypocrite and say it doesn't make sense because it doesn't matter to me.

    You're the one bringing up lore from 20 years ago that was never mentioned again.
    How is that bias? do you know what bias is?

    My point is that they could repurpose an old lore fact to current times, I think that would be neat, to indeed say that Farstriders used a prototypical form of druidism, which is in line with what we have seen of them in Eversong Woods and their relationship with the treants.

    Again, I literally don't care from a personal level, so tell me, where is my bias on this?

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I'm referring specifically to the Arcandor, which is shown as an harmonic unification of druidism and arcane



    hence I'm referring it as a historical through-line and not "canon", I'm talking about the re-framing of old lore.



    The point is that while you can make the case that humans might not be able to perform druidism without outside help, elves can. You know, such as night elves, who also have strong ties to the arcane and light.



    I don't know Brent, they might want to heal that gash that crosses their whole kingdom??



    "Blood Elves don't care about Nature" and "Tauren always made sense as paladins" Great, now we know your subjective view is very skewed. Only what you deem sensible makes sense, and simply discard any instances of Blood Elves regard and for nature, did you miss the Farstrider Quests in Eversong Woods? Did you do the quests in the scorched groove?

    And again, the fact that troll druidism is far less based on nature respect and more in animal aspects, further points to a rather subjective approach to your "doesn't make sense"

    Cause again, I personally don't care if BE get to be druids, but I'm not going to be an hypocrite and say it doesn't make sense because it doesn't matter to me.



    How is that bias? do you know what bias is?

    My point is that they could repurpose an old lore fact to current times, I think that would be neat, to indeed say that Farstriders used a prototypical form of druidism, which is in line with what we have seen of them in Eversong Woods and their relationship with the treants.

    Again, I literally don't care from a personal level, so tell me, where is my bias on this?
    blood elves have botanist

  7. #567
    I think Blood Elf society has enough fleshed aspects through the Magisters, Blood Knights and Farstriders.

    Too many means lacking story for all areas.

    I would prefer Nightborne Druids myself, because we can see Nightborne Grove Tenders using the Arcane to heal the plants around the Nighthold, but also...I never liked Nightborne Warlocks and I think Nightborne Druids should have been a thing from the word "go."
    Atleast the playable Thalassian Elves would have been the Warlock Elves and the playable Darnassian Elves would have been the Druid Elves.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I think Blood Elf society has enough fleshed aspects through the Magisters, Blood Knights and Farstriders.

    Too many means lacking story for all areas.

    I would prefer Nightborne Druids myself, because we can see Nightborne Grove Tenders using the Arcane to heal the plants around the Nighthold, but also...I never liked Nightborne Warlocks and I think Nightborne Druids should have been a thing from the word "go."
    Atleast the playable Thalassian Elves would have been the Warlock Elves and the playable Darnassian Elves would have been the Druid Elves.
    botanist exist

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    botanist exist
    They do...they also exist among-st the Draenei
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Botanist_Taerix

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    They do...they also exist among-st the Draenei
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Botanist_Taerix
    Botanist Tyniarrel


    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Botanist_Tyniarrel

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    And of course the Nightborne High Botanist which has likely led onto the Nighthold Grove Tenders (Nightborne who are using Arcane Magic to heal the plant-life.)

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    blood elves have botanist
    *pats head* yes, Blood Elves have botanist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And of course the Nightborne High Botanist which has likely led onto the Nighthold Grove Tenders (Nightborne who are using Arcane Magic to heal the plant-life.)
    Although most "botanists" haven't been shown on the most positive light, with all the manipulation of plant life for frivolous reasons, it is more than just a throwaway thing when we see it in highborne through Nightborne and Blood Elves. Moreso, the fact the Arcan'dor is what gave the NB their freedom, I think it's entirely plausible NB botanical studies become more respectful and comonplace, given how the marriage of arcane and nature magic was pivotal to their survival.

    Overall I just think there are very interesting throughlines to follow with both NB and BE's

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    *pats head* yes, Blood Elves have botanist.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Although most "botanists" haven't been shown on the most positive light, with all the manipulation of plant life for frivolous reasons, it is more than just a throwaway thing when we see it in highborne through Nightborne and Blood Elves. Moreso, the fact the Arcan'dor is what gave the NB their freedom, I think it's entirely plausible NB botanical studies become more respectful and comonplace, given how the marriage of arcane and nature magic was pivotal to their survival.

    Overall I just think there are very interesting throughlines to follow with both NB and BE's
    there is blood elves friendly botanists

  14. #574
    I think there is a pretty big difference though between a botanist and someone who can transform into a literal bear.

    Blood Elves have militant herbalists but it's a huge stretch to consider them Druids.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    I think there is a pretty big difference though between a botanist and someone who can transform into a literal bear.

    Blood Elves have militant herbalists but it's a huge stretch to consider them Druids.
    If only there was already a race with rudimentary, IDK, Harvest Witches, that also learned animal shapeshifting recently, MMMMM.

    Like my dude, the point is that Blood Elves already seem to have real analogues of both Restoration and Balance aspects of druidism, and that they could perfectly learn the animal shapeshifting aspect from any of the other Horde Races they cohabitate and work with.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    I think there is a pretty big difference though between a botanist and someone who can transform into a literal bear.

    Blood Elves have militant herbalists but it's a huge stretch to consider them Druids.
    Yeah Druidism is a deeper connection to nature than "likes plants and animals" it's being connected to or taught by a Wild God/Loa, Night Elves & Tauren have Cenarius, Trolls have Gonk, Kul Tirans have Athair/Athainne, Worgen have Goldrinn

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    If only there was already a race with rudimentary, IDK, Harvest Witches, that also learned animal shapeshifting recently, MMMMM.

    Like my dude, the point is that Blood Elves already seem to have real analogues of both Restoration and Balance aspects of druidism, and that they could perfectly learn the animal shapeshifting aspect from any of the other Horde Races they cohabitate and work with.
    The Harvest Witches were rudimentary nature spellcasters they were proto-druids similar to the keepers who valewalker farodin belonged to, it wasn't until they contracted the Worgen Curse (which is druidic in origin) and were inducted into the Cenarion Circle that they became actual Druids, the Blood Elves and Nightborne don't have any Wild Gods connected to them to learn from, maybe they'd be willing to learn from Trolls or Tauren but the same could be applied to any race learning a class.

    "Botanists" presumably use the arcane to manipulate nature they might have pretensions about respecting nature (like Tel'arn) but the things that we know the Blood Elves do to nature like perpetually keeping the Eversong Forest in spring or using the arcane to make plants grow in a place like Suramar are fundamentally opposed to what druidism is about which is balance and preserving natural order.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-02-27 at 09:08 PM.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    Yeah Druidism is a deeper connection to nature than "likes plants and animals" it's being connected to or taught by a Wild God/Loa, Night Elves & Tauren have Cenarius, Trolls have Gonk, Kul Tirans have Athair/Athainne, Worgen have Goldrinn



    The Harvest Witches were rudimentary nature spellcasters they were proto-druids similar to the keepers who valewalker farodin belonged to, it wasn't until they contracted the Worgen Curse (which is druidic in origin) and were inducted into the Cenarion Circle that they became actual Druids, the Blood Elves and Nightborne don't have any Wild Gods connected to them to learn from, maybe they'd be willing to learn from Trolls or Tauren but the same could be applied to any race learning a class.

    "Botanists" presumably use the arcane to manipulate nature they might have pretensions about respecting nature (like Tel'arn) but the things that we know the Blood Elves do to nature like perpetually keeping the Eversong Forest in spring or using the arcane to make plants grow in a place like Suramar are fundamentally opposed to what druidism is about which is balance and preserving natural order.
    for practical purposes a botanist already has the abilities of a druid restoration and balance

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    for practical purposes a botanist already has the abilities of a druid restoration and balance
    For practical purposes, yes they use druid (or similar style) abilities but that doesn't make them druids in-universe especially when otherwise they do things fundamentally opposed to what druids are about such as the botanists twisting plant life into mutated forms, forcing plant life to grow in a city cut off from natural sustainance, or perpetually keeping a forest in bloom, thats manipulating and twisting nature into unnatural forms to suit their purposes, rather than respecting it which is the cornerstone of what druids are about.

    Worgen Druids in gameplay & practical terms in their starting zone are already druids, but in-universe they are rudimentary nature users with limited nature powers who required extra training from the Cenarion Circle to become real druids. "Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training."
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-02-27 at 09:39 PM.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    For practical purposes, yes they use druid (or similar style) abilities but that doesn't make them druids in-universe especially when otherwise they do things fundamentally opposed to what druids are about such as the botanists twisting plant life into mutated forms, forcing plant life to grow in a city cut off from natural sustainance, or perpetually keeping a forest in bloom, thats manipulating and twisting nature into unnatural forms to suit their purposes, rather than respecting it which is the cornerstone of what druids are about.

    Worgen Druids in gameplay & practical terms in their starting zone are already druids, but in-universe they are rudimentary nature users with limited nature powers who required extra training from the Cenarion Circle to become real druids. "Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training."
    for practical purposes a blood knight who draws the light from the sunwell has the same abilities as a human paladin. when I say druid I mean the abilities of the game that a botanist can also use.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    for practical purposes a blood knight who draws the light from the sunwell has the same abilities as a human paladin. when I say druid I mean the abilities of the game that a botanist can also use.
    The Blood Knights by the end of BC (before they were different draining light from a naaru and all that) are practically the same as every other paladin in methodology they use faith and willpower to use the light, just because they attach "of the sunwell" at the end doesn't change that, a Sunwalker calls on "the light of an'she" a Vindicator calls on "the light of the naaru" a Prelate calls on "the light of the loa" it's still the light and they are all calling on it the same way through faith and will.

    A Botanist uses arcane magic to twist nature in unnatural ways such as keeping forests in perpetual bloom, twisting plantlife into mutated forms or forcing plant life to grow in a place cut off from any form of natural sustenance, their methodology fundamentally opposes what Druids are meant to be about which is balance and respecting nature.

    A Sunwalker, Vindicator, Prelate, Blood Knight and Knight of the Silver Hand all at their core are still Holy Warriors belonging to an Order who use the Light through faith and willpower, a Botanist and a Druid are fundamentally different, one uses arcane magic to twist nature, the other uses nature magic to keep the natural balance.

    Maybe Botanists could learn to use nature in more harmonious ways but i question the purpose, Blood Elves already have a fleshed out society with Magisters, Rangers and Blood Knights, I don't see why Blood Elves need Druids as a part of their society in addition to the other classes in the game they can be.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-02-27 at 11:26 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •