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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Right, so we're in agreement then.

    The Arcane, as a source of magic, common to how the Mages of Azeroth gather their sources, is not big in the major night elf society.
    Nor should it be, since it's obvious that Silvermoon should always maintain a superiority over Eldre'Thalas - so the latter would just be a poor man's Silvermoon.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It can return to showcase and continue the story from Cata Feralas. (Shen'dralar reclaiming Eldre'Thalas for the Alliance, but it also houses High Elves and Void Elves.)
    But Eldre'Thalas serves as a Night Elf hub. Not the night elf capital.
    I think it would be cool if Eldre'thalas, shared between Highborne, high elves and void elves, explored connections between nature, arcane and void. Suramar should be focusing primarily on Arcane, with Nightborne being the finest Arcane spellcasters around, and Silvermoon discovering Arcane and Light.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    How the hell did you took like 6 paragraphs to say that Night Elves have an innate affinity to the arcane? JFC, can you TRY to make your thoughts concise? You are not making your explanations any clearer by repeating yourself. You have to get to the point.

    On to it:

    The problem is that you have started using the "core aspect" to mean something entirely different than what is used; "Core" themes/aspects are cultural and ideological. You are conflating arcane as an element, with arcane as a cultural element. Those are not the same things. Night Elves are highly arcane attuned which probably helps with their connection to Elune, but "arcane" as a field of study and the related culture is almost nonexistent in their society, because they got rid of it on purpose.

    Basically, on the simplest terms "Not because it's something you're good at it, it's something you have to do." Night Elves removed arcane as a cornerstone of their society, and whether it will ever return it's entirely speculative.



    Indeed it is a problem, because your point gets lost in repetitiveramblings that serve no purpose, obfuscating your own point, that even NOW I don't fully understand what is. Do you have a point, as in argument about Night Elves and the Arcane as a part of their cultural identity going forward?
    6 paragraphs happen when you get too into something.

    I like how you summarise though, you said it well about the cosmic force differences, but it's sad because I was trying to point out a similar thing. Maybe my language is too influenced by my brother who constantly talks about Night elves. at home. Trust me he is a bigger fan.

    But we kinda discuss a lot of things, and with a nelf community, that doesn't post on here, so usually have already argued out controversies before sharing, and usually have a lot to share.

    I will attempt to be more brief, but often , as mentioned before, i do try to response thoroughly, family of lawyers and scientists, so big on detail.
    Last edited by Mace; 2021-10-03 at 09:10 AM.

  3. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    6 paragraphs happen when you get too into something.

    I like how you summarise though, you said it well about the cosmic force differences, but it's sad because I was trying to point out a similar thing. Maybe my language is too influenced by my brother who constantly talks about Night elves. at home. Trust me he is a bigger fan.

    But we kinda discuss a lot of things, and with a nelf community, that doesn't post on here, so usually have already argued out controversies before sharing, and usually have a lot to share.

    I will attempt to be more brief, but often , as mentioned before, i do try to response thoroughly, family of lawyers and scientists, so big on detail.
    No bro, don't apologise. many just oo lazy to read, and too into their pet race to try to understand ..especially the "enemy counterpart race - the rivalry conditions them to hate".

    They come to a forum expecting only short replies - twitter's that way, so is reddit. We explain more than enough and just fine. If someone can't understand after 6 paragraphs, they def didn't read or don't want to listen/understand. It's taking the piss, can't come in here, and argue against someon'es views without actually reading it properly.


    And frankly, I don't care how talented or clever they or their responses are, if they can't be bothered to try to understand you when you extend them the same courtesy, then they're just only interested in hearing themselves, not actually having a discourse with people who may view things differently from them or bring different insights.


    Some of these guys, are only interested when you talk up their pet race, and will auto hate you if you ever suggest or write something they don't like for their idols.. They'll choose a fantasy race that's make belief over a real human being, and will hate an actually person because that person cricitises their idols.


    I have no respect for those types, trying to placate them is a waste. don't bother. They won't change, talking from experience, even if you agree with them, they'll ignore you and and attack you as soon as you say something they don't like. Not interested in true debate. They don't even read what you write. But want to respond to it, and often mis the whole point..cos they ain't read it.

    You'll just have to wait till they grow up or come to the end of themselves.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    6 paragraphs happen when you get too into something.

    I like how you summarise though, you said it well about the cosmic force differences, but it's sad because I was trying to point out a similar thing. Maybe my language is too influenced by my brother who constantly talks about Night elves. at home. Trust me he is a bigger fan.

    But we kinda discuss a lot of things, and with a nelf community, that doesn't post on here, so usually have already argued out controversies before sharing, and usually have a lot to share.

    I will attempt to be more brief, but often , as mentioned before, i do try to response thoroughly, family of lawyers and scientists, so big on detail.
    Clarity > Detail. The later only serves to further elucidate the earlier, and only as needed.

    A point is not made clearer if you go into tangents and repeat it multiple times either. And often times, it feels like you're drowning the conversation on purpose, which I really hope is not your goal here. But that's how it comes across sometimes, which is unfortunate.

    We might never agree on some things, but the fun of these conversations is the debate, and it sucks when you have to get through walls of text that feel more self serving than meant to make a point come across.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    No bro, don't apologise. many just oo lazy to read, and too into their pet race to try to understand ..especially the "enemy counterpart race - the rivalry conditions them to hate".

    They come to a forum expecting only short replies - twitter's that way, so is reddit. We explain more than enough and just fine. If someone can't understand after 6 paragraphs, they def didn't read or don't want to listen/understand. It's taking the piss, can't come in here, and argue against someon'es views without actually reading it properly.


    And frankly, I don't care how talented or clever they or their responses are, if they can't be bothered to try to understand you when you extend them the same courtesy, then they're just only interested in hearing themselves, not actually having a discourse with people who may view things differently from them or bring different insights.


    Some of these guys, are only interested when you talk up their pet race, and will auto hate you if you ever suggest or write something they don't like for their idols.. They'll choose a fantasy race that's make belief over a real human being, and will hate an actually person because that person cricitises their idols.


    I have no respect for those types, trying to placate them is a waste. don't bother. They won't change, talking from experience, even if you agree with them, they'll ignore you and and attack you as soon as you say something they don't like. Not interested in true debate. They don't even read what you write. But want to respond to it, and often mis the whole point..cos they ain't read it.

    You'll just have to wait till they grow up or come to the end of themselves.
    Honestly it's pretty irresponsible to negate the possibility of introspection, specially when the issue at hand is the perceived failure to convey the arguments themselves.

    "Oh if they don't understand you it's not your fault, it's theirs" Communication is a two way street; and if we discount actual malice from the second person, you HAVE to make room to wonder why your point isn't coming across.

    And I'm not asking you to agree with that, nor for Mace to do so; but if he is willing to consider my words even for a moment, let him, whatever conclusion he may reach.
    Last edited by MyWholeLifeIsThunder; 2021-10-03 at 10:03 AM.

  5. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Clarity > Detail. The later only serves to further elucidate the earlier, and only as needed.

    A point is not made clearer if you go into tangents and repeat it multiple times either. And often times, it feels like you're drowning the conversation on purpose, which I really hope is not your goal here. But that's how it comes across sometimes, which is unfortunate.

    We might never agree on some things, but the fun of these conversations is the debate, and it sucks when you have to get through walls of text that feel more self serving than meant to make a point come across.
    Definitely not the goal at all. I think we just need to learn how to either agree to disagree or a listen a little closer and consider a little bit more before responding to achieve that clarity.

    But yes you are right, detail does not always equal clarity, in fact clarity often comes with simplicity and very little detail.

    And while detail can bring, it can often confuse instead. Detail is good once clarity is there, otherwise it isn't relevant.

    Perhaps I have been trying to give detail while not determining or establishing the basic argument clearly, so people can't often follow the detail I give.

    I will reflect on this , especially when I post here henceforth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Honestly it's pretty irresponsible to negate the possibility of introspection, specially when the issue at hand is the perceived failure to convey the arguments themselves.

    "Oh if they don't understand you it's not your fault, it's theirs" Communication is a two way street; and if we discount actual malice from the second person, you HAVE to make room to wonder why your point isn't coming across.

    And I'm not asking you to agree with that, nor for Mace to do so; but if he is willing to consider my words even for a moment, let him, whatever conclusion he may reach.
    @ravenmoon, he does make a fair point - though I understand where you are coming from too. We have been accused of "preaching" in places where we need to discuss. Perhaps withold our longer discourses until others give a clearer signal they've recived the initial one and are willing to hear more.

  6. #786
    Can I remind everyone - this is the Blood Elf discussion thread.

    Can we start to go back and talk about the Sin'dorei? Not sure how talk about Night Elves and Elune started, nor why it should continue when their is a thread for them.

  7. #787
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    -snip-
    An interesting perspective, thank you. I'll have to take your word for it on the titbits garnered from the out-of-game lore. I've never read any of the books.

    I think there's definitely room for a contingent of Kaldorei arcane users. But, I agree with MyWholeLifeIsThunder in that, at the civilisational level, the night elves seem to have moved away from use of the arcane outside the power of the Well of Eternity and the Moonwells. There's definitely room for Highborne mages though, just in the same way that I feel the blood elves can have a Magister and Blood Knight focus in their representation in-game, but it's important for Blizzard to try represent the Farstriders too.

  8. #788
    Dreadlord Phaelia's Avatar
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    I came back to this thread to see it completely derailed. Can we get back to talking about Blood Elves?
    ”I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me."-Sylvanas Windrunner

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    I came back to this thread to see it completely derailed. Can we get back to talking about Blood Elves?
    My Blood Elf Mage has gone through to a new Transmog set.

    Just wish I could upload it here, without having to go through a URL link.

  10. #790
    Dreadlord Phaelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    My Blood Elf Mage has gone through to a new Transmog set.

    Just wish I could upload it here, without having to go through a URL link.
    I mog my characters so much lol I’m sure I’ve spent a fortune in gold just on outfit changes alone
    ”I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me."-Sylvanas Windrunner

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    I mog my characters so much lol I’m sure I’ve spent a fortune in gold just on outfit changes alone
    It would help if Blood Elves had access to runes and tattoos.

    It's such a "Magister"-like thing. Red tattoos and runes around the eyes...it just screams Sin'dorei Magister.

    I'd also like to see more pheonix-based features for the Blood Elves.

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Can I remind everyone - this is the Blood Elf discussion thread.

    Can we start to go back and talk about the Sin'dorei? Not sure how talk about Night Elves and Elune started, nor why it should continue when their is a thread for them.
    I haven't been in the thread for a long time. are they talking about elune and the night elves in the blood elf thread? without a doubt I do not understand why they talk about it in this thread when here is to talk about the blood elves there are other threads that they can use for that.
    blood elf with beard comic

  13. #793
    I don't see a beard in that

  14. #794
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    How do we feel about the Reliquary using nightborne assets as seen in Zuldazar? Imo they look nice and all, but their color-theme is quite one-note considering it was initially designed for a large city consisting of that very theme. It stuck out in Zuldazar's different environment. Not too badly, but still. Such color theme for a race is limiting in general I think. You could say the blood elves suffer from the same with their over-reliance on red, but when you look at Eversong Woods and Silvermoon their color-scheme is actually quite varied. Red is the main color, but the rest aren't really compliant to it like it is with the nightborne. Stormwind humans like-wise rely a lot on blue and white, but use a lot of other colors as well.

    I'd personally prefer if the Reliquary remained a blood elf organization, with the nightborne merely providing aid. For that the blood elves require new building/asset models. The freshest addition I can recall was the jewelcrafting hut in Horde's Garrison, which was really an orcish structure with sin'dorei decoration. Lor'themar and Silvermoon's guards were updated fairly recently too. Have there been anything besides that? I don't recall seeing any actual blood elf buildings outside Quel'thalas and Outland (where the bases were largely built by Kael's elves, both the Sunfury and those who eventually became Scryers); any Silvermoon outpost we see in the world are just a bunch of tents. While it kind of makes sense (you don't need a permanent settlement for a forward-moving campaign besides the initial foothold) other races (mostly orcs and humans) still slap real buildings everywhere they go.

    Sometimes Blizz allocates artists' time for unnecessary additions, like the Warsong Hold; it could've just as well have been a regular orcish base much like its human equivalent, Valiance Keep. But they wanted to, for whatever reason, make it uniquely striking, which it certainly was. Then they also allow artists to work on personal projects like Uther's Tomb. It would be nice to have such work be of something more widely applicable, though I understand passion projects like that are up to the artists themselves. Just hope there's a blood elf fan among the artists, who'll be happy to work on new sin'dorei stuff.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    SNIP
    Meh, I'm alright with it.

    The Reliquary never had much to start with anyway, except a few Blood Elf tents and carpets, so the Nightborne joining them only shows the union between Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei.

    Purple can still be a colour for the Sin'dorei, if we think of the Sunfury Astromancers and Magisters on Outland. If Blizzard ever wanted to bring the Sunfury back into the story, then tying it to the Blood Elf Mages and Warlocks would be the best route to go.
    If a focus went onto races, with a bit about race/class combos, then I'd love to see something with regards to the Sunfury for the Blood Elf Mage and Blood Elf Warlock story.

    It would be great to have some emphasis on Fire, Blood and Arcane magical practices that are key to the Sin'dorei society.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    It would be great to have some emphasis on Fire, Blood and Arcane magical practices that are key to the Sin'dorei society.
    I wonder, how do you imagine possible sin'dorei use of blood magic? In fact, they never really used it, maybe even less then Fel. I recall only Magisters harvested Anima golems from Throne of Thunder and years later blood elves drained energies from dead turtle loa in Nazmir.

    Blood magic is generaly considered a dangerous thing, why do you think blood elves would go for such measures? They are now safe with the Sunwell, they don't have much need to look for new sources of power.

    The only elves who did use it on larger scale are san'layn. I'm not against the idea. In fact, it can bring new interesting stories for sin'dorei, but I'm afraid Sunwell is blocking most of the development we can have.
    Last edited by Vaedan; 2021-10-07 at 02:20 PM.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    I wonder, how do you imagine possible sin'dorei use of blood magic? In fact, they never really used it, maybe even less then Fel. I recall only Magisters harvested Anima golems from Throne of Thunder and years later blood elves drained energies from dead turtle loa in Nazmir.

    Blood magic is generaly considered a dangerous thing, why do you think blood elves would go for such measures? They are now safe with the Sunwell, they don't have much need to look for new sources of power.

    The only elves who did use it on larger scale are san'layn. I'm not against the idea. In fact, it can bring new interesting stories for sin'dorei, but I'm afraid Sunwell is blocking most of the development we can have.
    Because we've seen Blood Elves use Blood Magic with Blood Crystals, post TBC.

    Examples are the Isle of Thunder and outside the gates of Suramar.
    Most of their golems are now infused with Blood Magic.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Because we've seen Blood Elves use Blood Magic with Blood Crystals, post TBC.

    Examples are the Isle of Thunder and outside the gates of Suramar.
    Most of their golems are now infused with Blood Magic.
    Well, were blood crystals a thing post TBC? I thought they lost their purpose with restoration of Sunwell and were abandoned (which is not reflected in game ofc). They were also seen mostly in Outland and Bloodmyst Isle, so I thought they were used mostly by Sunfury.

    So, blood golems (what a shame they use mogu appearance and not updated thalassian construct model infused with blood magic) are the only use of blood elves have these days, and it also seem to not play huge role in their army anyway. I'd hardly say it's key magical practise for them (unlike fire and arcane), unless we have some new lore introduced.

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Well, were blood crystals a thing post TBC? I thought they lost their purpose with restoration of Sunwell and were abandoned (which is not reflected in game ofc). They were also seen mostly in Outland and Bloodmyst Isle, so I thought they were used mostly by Sunfury.

    So, blood golems (what a shame they use mogu appearance and not updated thalassian construct model infused with blood magic) are the only use of blood elves have these days, and it also seem to not play huge role in their army anyway. I'd hardly say it's key magical practise for them (unlike fire and arcane), unless we have some new lore introduced.
    And outside the gates of Suramar.
    Plus, using Blood Crystals on the Isle of Thunder

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Man...se_Crystal.jpg

    It seems most Sunreaver Sin'dorei use a combination of Blood and Fire Magics.
    Plus, as Lor'themar gets ready for 5.2, he tells Rommath and I quote:
    "Rommath, assemble the Blood Magi and add the Sunreavers' strength to your own."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I haven't been in the thread for a long time. are they talking about elune and the night elves in the blood elf thread? without a doubt I do not understand why they talk about it in this thread when here is to talk about the blood elves there are other threads that they can use for that.
    blood elf with beard comic
    I support more facial hair for male blood elves. Indeed, I think male blood elves should also have access to upper earrings, like Lor'themar.

  20. #800
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I support more facial hair for male blood elves. Indeed, I think male blood elves should also have access to upper earrings, like Lor'themar.
    I feel like we need some big sagely beards for blood elves (and humans too, tbf) to allow male casters to have that wizened magister feel that I imagine Anasterian to have had!

    Like this:


    (But with moustaches too)

    Earrings for guys would be much appreciated too!

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