The Blood Elves discussion thread

[Mace]

we need this!
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_1uZ0kVUAAPBlh?format=jpg&name=large
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_1uaY8UUAYnRkQ?format=jpg&name=large

You don't need anything. but let's be honest, this looks more like the void/high elves - beards, rough looks, tattoos, that's a wayfarer, and void elf vibe. But you might get lucky... they did give you some void elf beards.

Still, you are far more likely to see this in the void elf update when they finish with allied races.

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I actually agree with @Rhlor on this. It does not really matter that we've seen tattoos mostly on bad boy Outland/Illidari elves. We know that Sunfury elves rejoined Silvermoon after Kael was exposed as traitor, so it makes sense to add that feature through this group.

Rejoined? I thought they were wiped out.

IF he means the scryers, he is stretching it. The ones with tattoos were those with Illidan and the later the legion. But, it still isn't really an obstacle to bel f tattoos.

It depends on whether that is what blizzard wants for them.

Blizzard is expanding character customizations across all races, giving us option to play as wildhammer dwarf, sand troll, Highborne... So why not having Sunfury options for blood elves for people who wants to go back to old bad boy concept blood elves used to have?

Also, tattoos are well in line with pristine depiction of blood elves. You can have delicate tattoo designs which fits well with lavish nature of sin'dorei society.

Well they have some hope for this, however, I won't hold my breadth for another round of customisations any time soon, and blizzard still seem in favour of keeping things a little different from race to race. But , we'll see.

Elves can be an exception because of how popular they are. But I don't think they've changed their mind there. Let's wait for the 10.0 announcement.

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Read where I made mention to you.. got completely ignored altho covering all points you guys are talking about.

OH, I think I missed it, I'll go back and check. which reply are you specifically referring to?

[Caperfin]

we need this!

What language is that on the right?

[Kyriani]

I believe that is French.

[Tanaria]

Rejoined? I thought they were wiped out.

IF he means the scryers, he is stretching it. The ones with tattoos were those with Illidan and the later the legion. But, it still isn't really an obstacle to bel f tattoos.

It depends on whether that is what blizzard wants for them.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sun..._Quel.27Thalas

The Sunfury are part of the Sin'dorei society and by extension, Horde society.
It's also dependent on whether Blizzard want it for High Elves or Void Elves as well.

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You don't need anything. but let's be honest, this looks more like the void/high elves - beards, rough looks, tattoos, that's a wayfarer, and void elf vibe. But you might get lucky... they did give you some void elf beards.

Still, you are far more likely to see this in the void elf update when they finish with allied races.

Night Elves are the ones who don't need anything new.
That race has got so many features.

They've basically got everything now, whilst Blood Elves are still missing a few things that must be given to them.

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Well they have some hope for this, however, I won't hold my breadth for another round of customisations any time soon, and blizzard still seem in favour of keeping things a little different from race to race. But , we'll see.

Elves can be an exception because of how popular they are. But I don't think they've changed their mind there. Let's wait for the 10.0 announcement.

It's kind of like, night elf fans wanting more highborne stuff.

It's unlikely to happen now, but void elves should be getting more "void" based features, not more from the blood elves.

[Alanar]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sun..._Quel.27Thalas

The Sunfury are part of the Sin'dorei society and by extension, Horde society.
It's also dependent on whether Blizzard want it for High Elves or Void Elves as well.

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Night Elves are the ones who don't need anything new.
That race has got so many features.

They've basically got everything now, whilst Blood Elves are still missing a few things that must be given to them.

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It's kind of like, night elf fans wanting more highborne stuff.

It's unlikely to happen now, but void elves should be getting more "void" based features, not more from the blood elves.

This is what bothers me...
Blood elves need new stuff that seperates them more.
next thing: VOID ELVES NEED IT AS WELL! Tattoos jewelry, silvermoon..

Please stop.

[Vaedan]

This is what bothers me...
Blood elves need new stuff that seperates them more.
next thing: VOID ELVES NEED IT AS WELL! Tattoos jewelry, silvermoon..

Please stop.

Well, the problem is that void elves were blood elves until recently, so some features make sense on them too, most notably tattoos, farstrider and magister alike, since both groups were part of Umbric's group.

On the other hand, there should be enough distinction. I can certainly imagine blood elf exclusive features being based on "national" themes like pheonixes, sun, flames. It could make really cool visuals.

Another way is to give blood elves another niche. Two most obvious are:
- "Lightforged", but I'd rather call it Sunsworn to avoid connection with Draenei. It's already there thanks to golden eyes, but it could be expanded. I can think of glowing hair (similar to DID hair/beards), glowing tattoos
- Undead: Dark Rangers/San'layn are both themes worth considering too. It does not have to mean that Undead needs to play large role in thalassian society. Sand trolls are not canonicaly part of the Horde, but we have that option on Darkspears.

[Alanar]

Well, the problem is that void elves were blood elves until recently, so some features make sense on them too, most notably tattoos, farstrider and magister alike, since both groups were part of Umbric's group.

On the other hand, there should be enough distinction. I can certainly imagine blood elf exclusive features being based on "national" themes like pheonixes, sun, flames. It could make really cool visuals.

Another way is to give blood elves another niche. Two most obvious are:
- "Lightforged", but I'd rather call it Sunsworn to avoid connection with Draenei. It's already there thanks to golden eyes, but it could be expanded. I can think of glowing hair (similar to DID hair/beards), glowing tattoos
- Undead: Dark Rangers/San'layn are both themes worth considering too. It does not have to mean that Undead needs to play large role in thalassian society. Sand trolls are not canonicaly part of the Horde, but we have that option on Darkspears.

Yea, we talked about those suggestion, which I find pretty good. I like your ideas, but I already adressed those 2 pages ago, not sure. Forgive me if I didn't. But I commented on the sun elf thing and some things are fer sure plausible on blood elves, just need a tat more phoenix essets to compliment it.

The problem that I am having tho is that : Bolded part is realy no argument, that is imo actually a reason to NOT ask for the same things. We are already having to much copy paste stuff and it only damages it's respective race. I mean we have been over this so many times including on the Nb/Ne discussion thread and ofc lets be fair, void elves won on so many levels already. I think that it should be the answer and not a reason to ask for the same things, it's that simple. Void elves used to be blood or high elf, should not be a reason to ask for the same things, all groups besides high elves have there own theme. I think void elves should have a little patience and dont hyjack every thing, their time will come and they will get more void options as it should be. If blood elves finnaly get that runic face tattoo option, we don't need void elves to have the same but then purple. It's imo as rediculous as Varadoc suggestion of using the blood elf paladin arc, but instead use purple essets and make it avoid elf theme only to introduce void elf paladin. It's literally stealing already excisting lore. I am just wondering.. is it that hard to make up something yourself or is it just on purpose? This is my opinion ofc.

[Rhlor]

Well, the problem is that void elves were blood elves until recently, so some features make sense on them too, most notably tattoos, farstrider and magister alike, since both groups were part of Umbric's group.

On the other hand, there should be enough distinction. I can certainly imagine blood elf exclusive features being based on "national" themes like pheonixes, sun, flames. It could make really cool visuals.

Another way is to give blood elves another niche. Two most obvious are:
- "Lightforged", but I'd rather call it Sunsworn to avoid connection with Draenei. It's already there thanks to golden eyes, but it could be expanded. I can think of glowing hair (similar to DID hair/beards), glowing tattoos
- Undead: Dark Rangers/San'layn are both themes worth considering too. It does not have to mean that Undead needs to play large role in thalassian society. Sand trolls are not canonicaly part of the Horde, but we have that option on Darkspears.

Blood elves are not undead. Elf customization for forsaken

[Alanar]

we need this!

I never found the appeal of beard on elves my kind of thing, but if I had to choose one that would fit blood elves more I think I have to be specific and that is, this one the * wise* type.


@Vaedan Something I just though off, another idea would be to bring back the Alpha blood elf female stance. The use of something so striking could be a perfect example how they could be seperated more with just small changes. This would be for blood elves ofc.

[Vaedan]

The problem that I am having tho is that : Bolded part is realy no argument, that is imo actually a reason to NOT ask for the same things. We are already having to much copy paste stuff and it only damages it's respective race. I mean we have been over this so many times including on the Nb/Ne discussion thread and ofc lets be fair, void elves won on so many levels already. I think that it should be the answer and not a reason to ask for the same things, it's that simple. Void elves used to be blood or high elf, should not be a reason to ask for the same things, all groups besides high elves have there own theme. I think void elves should have a little patience and dont hyjack every thing, their time will come and they will get more void options as it should be. If blood elves finnaly get that runic face tattoo option, we don't need void elves to have the same but then purple. It's imo as rediculous as Varadoc suggestion of using the blood elf paladin arc, but instead use purple essets and make it avoid elf theme only to introduce void elf paladin. It's literally stealing already excisting lore. I am just wondering.. is it that hard to make up something yourself or is it just on purpose? This is my opinion ofc.

I think we should not be locked on the mindset "my race should have more features than others", but on the mindset "let's add features that makes sense". That's what cost blood elves meaningful customizations in the first place, since most of their fans were vocal in argumenting against new features for void elves, instead of being vocal in demanding things for their race.

Void elves and blood elves will have shared features and always had, since day 1 (their base models are same, on contrary to NE/NB) and apparently Blizzard decided that sharing is caring, so it's possible there will be more shared customizations in the future too. I can't blame them, it's the most easy thing for them, since both races use exactly same model, transfering features from one to another is probably easy. Having same features on velves and belves does not mean that it makes that features less appealing or that I can't enjoy it.

Also, void elves having their co-leaders being a famous Farstrider (with a tattoos) and a Magister, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to get modified versions of these features too. It makes sense. I think that's like the last thing they should get regarding thalassian theme and then see what they can get regarding new void stuff. There are many cool ideas for void elves regarding their void origins, like full tentacle hair, astral textures to their hair, etc. The problem I have with blood elves is that after TBC/WotLK, they became kind of vanilla elves with only signiture in being the only Light-worshipping elves around, so most of their customization falls into "high elf" archetype, which is being shared with void elves.

Also, I wouldn't take Varadoc seriously really. I don't like his attitude of denying new features to blood elves and reserving them to void elves only. Regarding void elf paladins, it's pointless to debate it right now. It's redundant for both void and high elf fantasy and it's one of the last unique feature blood elves have at the moment. There are more interesting race/class combos then another thalassian paladins anyway.

Something I just though off, another idea would be to bring back the Alpha blood elf female stance. The use of something so striking could be a perfect example how they could be seperated more with just small changes. This would be for blood elves ofc.

Yes, the different stance would go a long way, just look at NE and NB. Orcs got modified stance already, so I can imagine it on blood elves too.

[Mace]

This is what bothers me...
Blood elves need new stuff that seperates them more.
next thing: VOID ELVES NEED IT AS WELL! Tattoos jewelry, silvermoon..

Please stop.

But surely that depends on the look and vibe they are going for.

Because of void elves, and the high elf story with the available customisations - the rougher , on the edge, more dishevelled look feels like the new high elf.

Most are refugees, no support, just barely regathering, you can see them in literally every walk of life as they are scattered

Blood elves have the glory of the high elves as they continue that. Blizzard opted to remove the bad boy dangerous vibe. They have the security, the sunwell, they can basically be the near isolationist , aloof group they were as high elves with just a little bit more relaxing of the closed off society vibe.

Blood Elves have become the HIGH ELVES - Quel’thalas is back to where it was + improvements, the people broadened their horizons, adding to what they were, it’s just that they call themselves blood elves.

Blizzard essentially restored the high elves in the blood elves instead of making them something different with Illidan.

Those that remain “high elves “ in name are the ones that are different now. They are high elves in the original philosophy and mindset of their people. But apart from that, they are a totally different people. They live a very different life than they use to. Quite like the Kaldorei Darnassians who are living a very different life than they were pre-sundering but keep the spirit and magical affinity of the original Kaldorei identity.

So you don’t imagine your blood elf as pirate captains, vagabonds, wanderers, living in small forest communities , haggard, rough etc.

That’s basically most of your high elves, void elves and night elves as the story goes. While your Nightborne and blood elf have the majesty and grandeur of the Kaldorei and the Thalassians.

This is why I feel these looks are far more likely on void elves and high elves. Though your artwork looks amazing.

If blood elves ever got tattoos. It would be chic and sophisticated, like the Nightborne.

But Nightborne have them more as a city version of the Kaldorei. As night elves are a more primal group of elves.

They could give blood elves all of this. But it is altering the vibe and message. Also expanding it too. Which is fair enough.

There are afterall , pirate blood elves and some bad boys.

[orderchaos]

golden eyes on blood elves look weird

[Alanar]

I think we should not be locked on the mindset "my race should have more features than others", but on the mindset "let's add features that makes sense". That's what cost blood elves meaningful customizations in the first place, since most of their fans were vocal in argumenting against new features for void elves, instead of being vocal in demanding things for their race.

Void elves and blood elves will have shared features and always had, since day 1 (their base models are same, on contrary to NE/NB) and apparently Blizzard decided that sharing is caring, so it's possible there will be more shared customizations in the future too. I can't blame them, it's the most easy thing for them, since both races use exactly same model, transfering features from one to another is probably easy. Having same features on velves and belves does not mean that it makes that features less appealing or that I can't enjoy it.

Also, void elves having their co-leaders being a famous Farstrider (with a tattoos) and a Magister, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to get modified versions of these features too. It makes sense. I think that's like the last thing they should get regarding thalassian theme and then see what they can get regarding new void stuff. There are many cool ideas for void elves regarding their void origins, like full tentacle hair, astral textures to their hair, etc. The problem I have with blood elves is that after TBC/WotLK, they became kind of vanilla elves with only signiture in being the only Light-worshipping elves around, so most of their customization falls into "high elf" archetype, which is being shared with void elves.

Also, I wouldn't take Varadoc seriously really. I don't like his attitude of denying new features to blood elves and reserving them to void elves only. Regarding void elf paladins, it's pointless to debate it right now. It's redundant for both void and high elf fantasy and it's one of the last unique feature blood elves have at the moment. There are more interesting race/class combos then another thalassian paladins anyway.



Yes, the different stance would go a long way, just look at NE and NB. Orcs got modified stance already, so I can imagine it on blood elves too.

Void and blood elves already have enough in terms of sharing, its a weird though to continue this route when there is enough room to explore on their own respective themes.

I think we should stand still at what blood elves managed to achieve and not forget that. Meaning blood knights and farstrider still hold a powerfull position in the blood elves. Personally I would love to get tbc elves back, meaning the sunwell is blocking that. Thats why I thought it would be a cool idea to get rid of it afther some battle and thus blood elves going back to alternstive ways. I know this is not likely to happen. So sun elves are the next best thing I agree.

The sharing has already happend and high elves for both was the outcome, which is fine for what it is imo.

If we are to go into pure blood elf costumization I think a healthly direction is to get some exclusivity, same as with void elves and their hopefully upcoming new void costumizations. I think we can both agree we shouldnt be able to make a blood elf on the alliance side. I though blond hair and red hair was also part of that, shame blizz thinks otherwise. Now we have green and golden eyes being literally the only difference, which is not enough.

I agree, but I am also not denying features for void elvel, but I do believe that they should have some patience, because its coming.

As of tattoos.. its a debate right now what they even are. Most sources show warcraft 2 images which look more like blue warpaints and were alleria is the only one with some questionable tattoos tbh. Whete blood elves have been both shown in artwork and magi to hsve some runic options.

That could be the difference, void elves usibg more warpaints and blood elf runic tattoos. Its just pointless at this stage to give them the same stuff when there is enough room to explore while keeping it unique from eachother.
So I dont dissagree, but also not 100 agree.

[Mace]

@Alanar but in what way would you divulge them?

My brother was rambling on about a distinctive direction for blood elves he felt no blood elf fan seemed to like.

Should things like beards and tattoos be a distinguishing feature between the elf factions? Or should they share and other things used to distinguish them?

If we were to use features like beards and tattoos. Do we give them different types of each or we say we will make tattoos, rough beards and crept void. Features a void /high elf thing because of how we have written them.

Then give blood elves other things jewellery, weird magical effects like kael’thas floating balls and maybe some fel and undead extra customisations.

The thi. Is high elf fans want the majestic thing the blood elves have, and until now, I blood elf fans seem to want the more uncouth/ unsavoury (which is how they’d view it) features like tattoos and beards which my brother really thinks would be good for them (but that’s cos he believes in the WC3 TFT direction of the blood elves)

Blizzard ofc decide - but what would you have the blood elves do? How would you distinguish them from the high elves and void elves in a way that fits them or develop them to gain features that do.

For me I think

Void/high elves = tattoos, fuller and more beards, void features
Blood elves = jewellery, magical effects, undead and some fel customisations (bleeding from DK and DH incl red eyes)

[Villager720]

I enjoy certain folks just flatly claiming what blizzard’s motivations are with zero evidence to back it up. “Blizzard wants x to be more rugged and y to be more pristine - so z customization goes to x race”.

Meanwhile, in reality :
Blizzard has never shown any void elves to have tattoos - and the only npc to have tattoos was Alleria (a farstrider - an organization/group which remains loyal to Silvermoon) which was baked into her unique character design since WC2 (because of the elven ranger units that she was mirrored off of). So thinking that’s somehow a uniquely void elf or high elf characteristic is trash.
Prime example being the blood elf on the actual Burning Crusade box art has a face tattoo, and the other highly arcane based elf society, the Nightborne, are covered in runic tattoos. And all the remaining “rugged” farstriders associated with the elven ranger units of WC2, are with Silvermoon. Conversely, most of the remaining high elves and void elves we’ve seen are magic scholars - not “rugged”.
So there is more evidence for tattoos being more appropriate for blood elves than void elves - but blizzard isn’t going to give them as a customization because “that’s not what they want”.

Some of the folks here are actual memes.

[Vaedan]

Void and blood elves already have enough in terms of sharing, its a weird though to continue this route when there is enough room to explore on their own respective themes.

I mostly agree. I wouldn't mind sharing Farstrider tattoos/paintings though, it seems natural step for both groups, but it's the last thing they could share.

I think we should stand still at what blood elves managed to achieve and not forget that. Meaning blood knights and farstrider still hold a powerfull position in the blood elves. Personally I would love to get tbc elves back, meaning the sunwell is blocking that. Thats why I thought it would be a cool idea to get rid of it afther some battle and thus blood elves going back to alternstive ways. I know this is not likely to happen. So sun elves are the next best thing I agree.

Yes, I'm on the same boat. To be honest, back in the Legion, I kind of suspected to Sunwell being destroyed. To be honest, Sunwell destruction would move blood elf story forward once again, but that would be repeat of the same story. I have another theory now. There is Il'gynoth whisper:

Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below.

I think it might point to the Sunwell. It was born of the Naaru spark. We know the Naaru life connected to the cycle of Light and Void. At the end of blood elf heritage armor questline, you ignite a lantern of the Sunwell energies. It had subtle shadowy glow to it. In a possible Void/Light expansion, this might play role and it might even result in a fact that blood elves realize that Sunwell is not what they thought all that time and willingly decide to let it go. At least it would be different story to simple destruction.

The sharing has already happend and high elves for both was the outcome, which is fine for what it is imo.

Agreed, but let's be honest, Alliance gained way more, because blood elves were high elf archetype long ago and only feature they got on this manner were blue eyes. I personally also find idea of high elves on the Horde distasteful, because of the disrespect high elves displayed towards mainstream thalassian culture and modern identity.

If we are to go into pure blood elf costumization I think a healthly direction is to get some exclusivity, same as with void elves and their hopefully upcoming new void costumizations. I think we can both agree we shouldnt be able to make a blood elf on the alliance side. I though blond hair and red hair was also part of that, shame blizz thinks otherwise. Now we have green and golden eyes being literally the only difference, which is not enough.

I don't mind sharing blonde hair that much, I kind of expected red hair as well, but I was actually surprised by brown and ginger hair to be honest. After I saw some screens from PTR, I must say I actually like red and orange hair combined with tentacles and void skins, it makes nice contrast and it actually gives me "N'zoth" vibe. Not bad really. In that way, hair colors are not that huge factor in the race identity. To be honest, many races share these colors across factions, so who cares. Skin colors make bigger difference, so I'm more concerned about void elves having tanned and dark brown skins, which make way more sense on blood elves, given their connection to Sunwell.

As of tattoos.. its a debate right now what they even are. Most sources show warcraft 2 images which look more like blue warpaints and were alleria is the only one with some questionable tattoos tbh. Whete blood elves have been both shown in artwork and magi to hsve some runic options.

That could be the difference, void elves usibg more warpaints and blood elf runic tattoos. Its just pointless at this stage to give them the same stuff when there is enough room to explore while keeping it unique from eachother.
So I dont dissagree, but also not 100 agree.

Well, I'd be fine with that outcome. You are right that only source showing us Farstrider Warpaints/Tattoos is from WC2 and are largely associated with Alleria, so it's natural to give them to void elves while build blood elf features on more magical oriented runic tattoos. There will be people who demand everything for blood elves. I can understand that I wouldn't mind if they eventually got them... but if you want a race to be unique, it can't have all features, because then it becomes jack of all trades, master of none and it's identity blends into several concepts.

I enjoy certain folks just flatly claiming what blizzard’s motivations are with zero evidence to back it up. “Blizzard wants x to be more rugged and y to be more pristine - so z customization goes to x race”.

Meanwhile, in reality :
Blizzard has never shown any void elves to have tattoos - and the only npc to have tattoos was Alleria (a farstrider - an organization/group which remains loyal to Silvermoon) which was baked into her unique character design since WC2 (because of the elven ranger units that she was mirrored off of). So thinking that’s somehow a uniquely void elf or high elf characteristic is trash.
Prime example being the blood elf on the actual Burning Crusade box art has a face tattoo, and the other highly arcane based elf society, the Nightborne, are covered in runic tattoos. And all the remaining “rugged” farstriders associated with the elven ranger units of WC2, are with Silvermoon. Conversely, most of the remaining high elves and void elves we’ve seen are magic scholars - not “rugged”.
So there is more evidence for tattoos being more appropriate for blood elves than void elves - but blizzard isn’t going to give them as a customization because “that’s not what they want”.

Some of the folks here are actual memes.

Well, most of the void elves were blood elves associated with Silvermoon just few years ago. Also, Farstriders as an organization remained in Quel'thalas indeed, but exiled high elves and even void elves had rangers in their ranks too, so the organization most likely fractured during exile(s). To be honest, the only elves we've seen with tattoos are Alleria (void elf) and Rommath (blood elf). It's even.

Also, Tyrande had her special character design leaves in her hair in WC3 material, which years later got implemented as a customization option for all night elves, so I don't think it's impossible for void elves to get Farstrider warpaints too.

[Trumpcat]

I want this for customization

Holy Jesus Mother of Elves
Might reroll Horde later, idk.

But yes, just to support the thread. I am for more customizations for everyone, don't want to say "Belf shouldn't have this" or "Velf shouldn't have that" or demand that jewelry, tattoos, hairstyles, beards and other non-racial appearance customizations should in any way be race bound. If you're a Human you can get tattooed just as well as a Dwarf or Troll. Then on top of that let races have their own separate signature appearances like the lightforged elements, arcane tattoos, cultural warpaint, etc. which are race bound. (Although I'd love lightforged humans like Turalyon.)

While it's great to see Blizzard letting loose a little bit with new options for Allied Races now, do remember that they had no intention to add further customization this expansion. What they do is quelling the playerbase. We are nearly 1 year into SL and we've had bare bones content added and they got hit by a massive PR disaster. They are well aware customization is in huge demand, much like many other QoL features and it's a shame that WoW is as old as it is, made and makes so much money and it's so backwards and limited in terms of character expression.

[Mace]

Holy Jesus Mother of Elves
Might reroll Horde later, idk.

But yes, just to support the thread. I am for more customizations for everyone, don't want to say "Belf shouldn't have this" or "Velf shouldn't have that" or demand that jewelry, tattoos, hairstyles, beards and other non-racial appearance customizations should in any way be race bound. If you're a Human you can get tattooed just as well as a Dwarf or Troll. Then on top of that let races have their own separate signature appearances like the lightforged elements, arcane tattoos, cultural warpaint, etc. which are race bound. (Although I'd love lightforged humans like Turalyon.)

While it's great to see Blizzard letting loose a little bit with new options for Allied Races now, do remember that they had no intention to add further customization this expansion. What they do is quelling the playerbase. We are nearly 1 year into SL and we've had bare bones content added and they got hit by a massive PR disaster. They are well aware customization is in huge demand, much like many other QoL features and it's a shame that WoW is as old as it is, made and makes so much money and it's so backwards and limited in terms of character expression.

Yes, but we can't have everyone have everything the same way either, or being different loses meaning.

Take a game like SWTOR, where despite having different races, there are so many features shared between the races.. they feel a lot more samey and far less distinct .. woww races are just more interesting and attractive because they are different.

There is a balance to reach, everyone having everything isn't a good thing, but there are somethings that should be exclusive.. distinctive enough but exclusive, and somethings that can be shared between a racial group (e.g. all Thalassian elves or even further , all elves - i.e. both night and thalassian elves

[Tanaria]

Yes, but we can't have everyone have everything the same way either, or being different loses meaning.

Take a game like SWTOR, where despite having different races, there are so many features shared between the races.. they feel a lot more samey and far less distinct .. woww races are just more interesting and attractive because they are different.

There is a balance to reach, everyone having everything isn't a good thing, but there are somethings that should be exclusive.. distinctive enough but exclusive, and somethings that can be shared between a racial group (e.g. all Thalassian elves or even further , all elves - i.e. both night and thalassian elves

Yes, but then in another breathe, we get "More Highborne options for Night Elves" and Night elf fans are all like, "yeah, that's really good and needed."

I don't see how more jewelry compares to the runic tattoos, which Vaeden has already made clear is a core part of Blood Elf society. He and I have both referred to the returned Sunfury and I sent you the link, informing you that those Elves from Outland - some of them, still under the Sunfury banner, returned and pledged themselves to the Horde and to Quel'Thalas.

So, if we're to get more "highborne" features for night elves, then the Blood Elves should deffo get more features that relate to the Sunfury...especially since the TBC box art has a Blood Elf with runic facial tattoos.

[Mace]

Yes, but then in another breathe, we get "More Highborne options for Night Elves" and Night elf fans are all like, "yeah, that's really good and needed."

It's a balance.. some options should have unique versions available that fits the lore and can look good. As you brought it up, Night elves for example, have Highborne, Moonguard and arcane masters, and their entire civilization is pre-sundering based. Therefore you would expect options for it.

It isn't unreasonable to expect that this needs to be reflected both for those who like that era and the in-game groups like the Highborne, Moonguard and some night elven civilians who lean that way. For night elves we are catering to the forest lovers, arcane lovers, Elune lovers and demon hunters - recently night warriors (Elune sub category) and undead (Ravencrests and Dark Rangers).

Just because a night elven sub-race Highborne group like the Nightborne come into being, doesn't mean that only they should have exclusive options.

So for this example: The best solution is: You give night elves a version of customisations that properly reflect their arcane/Elune/Highborne heritage - they got some jewellery, some star glowy tattoos which could signify Elune or the arcane, they get some neat hairstyles and beards.

You give Nightborne a different set and type of tattoos - you claim are the latest fashion (which everyone understands changes, so they won't necessarily have the same ones as night elves, hairstyles, some they wills hare wit night elves but some they would have entirely unique. You want your shared styles < than your unique styles and you want some distinctive race only features.

For example, star tattoos (like we see on the 2 versions of Tyrande - (i.e. night warrior Tyrande and Elune avatar Tyrande) would be arcane powered tattoos exclusive to night elves, the ones Nightborne have are very distinctive and are exclusive to them.


Exclusive:
Exclusive to Nightborne
1. = ears that curl up (night elves won't have this, but Nightborne will have access to night elf ears - as some examples exist and the ears don't always curl up.
2. = Very narrow eyes (night elves had their eyes narrowed a bit, but Nightborne get the option to have a full narrow - lore reason can be, 10k in eternal night, led to alot of squinting)
3.

Exclusive to Night elves:
1. vines options
2. stars in hair
3. Scars


Shared:
1. Body bulk: Both night elves and Nightborne can be skin or normal size. [Nightborne no longer feeding on arcwine, some will bulk up, naturally some night elves can be skinny, especially if they are casters - truth is all races should have body bulk /thin options. Same racial groups like night elf/Nightborne and blood elf/void elf etc, will share the same body bulk skeletons. Humans/kul'tirans/forsaken too etc.
2. Skin tones: they share skin tones, but some skin tones are unique to each race, while others are shared
3. Hairstyles: they share some hairstyles too, but each has a variety of unique ones.
4. Eye colour: they share the same silver eye colour, but night elves have more options that reflect the gold of destiny, green of the emerald dream, black of the night warrior ritual, blue of the arcane, silver of the arcane/goddess.
5. Tattoos: but different kinds (Nelves get both imprints and glowy - representing forest tribal markings and both Elune and arcane power, but Nightborne get a totally different kind - that's chic and stylish and arcane
6. Beards - but very different kinds (NElves have much bushier and varied options
7. Jewellery - but very different kinds (Nightborne get much more varied and numerous options)

See the pattern? Lots of things are shared, far more than unique, this is fine because these aren't two separate races entirely, they are sub-races of each others in the same group, so they have distinctive looks, but yet much in common

How does this translate to blood elves and void elves?

Exactly the same:
If they both get bushier beards, they will share some, but by and large you would make each have a distinctive look, just like they did the hairstyle.

Chances are for beards, its i void elves that will get the bushier and scruffier look - because this was what already went their way. Maybe blood elves might get a full beard option, but it just feels like a void elf thing.
Tattoos: Like the night elf and Nightborne getting different types of tattoos, the same could happen here, but then the question is asked should blood elves get tattoos?

My point is that , they took blood elves AWAY from that vibe and look to give them the pre-scourge, high elf pristine look, even though they were now blood elves. Instead of making blood elves different from high elves, they made blood elves return to being high elves but without taking the name up or joining the alliance.

Instead, they made high elves, and then void elves the vagabonds, refugees, frazzled rougher Thalassians. Those who would need tattoos either for enhancing their magic or for the tight Farstrider type bonds they would undoubtedly have having to survive in small very tight groups in ways they never had to when they lived in the luxury of Quel'thalas.

But if they give blood elves tattoos, it would be different.

1. They could hearken back to the Illidari blood elf, like Rommath, and have tattoos that represent that ilk of blood elf, the sunfury remnant that re-integrated back, like the Scryers.
2. The Farstriders could have a new surge of fashion, and it explained that when they abandoned their high elven identity, they put them off, but they've come back with a vengeance.. but now in new forms. This would explain why they are different from the void/high elf tattoos which are new void patterns, and old high elf Farstrider patterns blood elves don't use anymore since well, you know they're blood elves.

But tattoos are limited to these two groups only. No other blood elves wear them. Magisters don't, Blood knights don't, etc etc, just like while you can get red eyes customisation for blood elves, the only ones that have that are darkfallen/undead ones, which if you pick that option you're playing that.. unless Red eyes becomes a new effect of u sing blood crystals, in which case a non-undead blood elf can also gain this.

I don't see how more jewelry compares to the runic tattoos, which Vaeden has already made clear is a core part of Blood Elf society. He and I have both referred to the returned Sunfury and I sent you the link, informing you that those Elves from Outland - some of them, still under the Sunfury banner, returned and pledged themselves to the Horde and to Quel'Thalas.

Jewellery and runic tattoos were used to highlight features that were available to one group that weren't to another. Ofc high/void elves can have jewellery too, and on the scale of blood elves, but it's not a thing, technically, they're outcasts - they're poorer, likely had to flee with the bulk of their wealth estates still back at home under blood elf control and likely seized, this explains why they don't have jewellery options or are very limited, whereas blood elves have loads.

This makes sense and matches the current lore

Same with the runic tattoos, blood elves can get them, but as explained above, there are reasons high elves and void elves have them commonly, but blood elves don't.

Still both can have jewellery and tattoos, fine - but they'd have different types and styles - but then since they are so similar in appearance (unlike Nightborne and night elves who thanks to ears/body size and posture can at first glance look very different, void elves and blood elves can't, so they should have other factors that distinguish them, especially now that high elves are available.

So I won't give blood elves tattoos or beards, and would keep that a void elf thing personally but then it feels off for void elves to have more options (like Nightborne have more options than night elves) still - when you look at it though, blood elves have variations in the options they have.. look at eye colour for example.


What am I saying?

Based on current lore and wthe way things are: Void/High elves get tattoos and more beards, - blood elves don't (they can get other things like undead options, magical effects possibly, (representing arcane, light and fel).

Does this mean blood elves can't ever get tattoos or scars? No, it doesn't off course, but let there be a change in lore that reflects this or rather a promotion in the groups like the Sunfury and Farstriders shown to adapt this.

I mean we likely won't get that and it would be lumped in, but that's my stance.