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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Because I don't see the attempt to destroy historical monuments as a positive.

    There really hasn't been a time when it was supported were it wasn't the precursor to something terrible happening.
    So, they should have left all those Hitler and Stalin statues alone?

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    So, they should have left all those Hitler and Stalin statues alone?
    Why is it that when people here slowly lose a argument they try to make the argument so absurd they can make a single counter point?

    To my knowledge no one is currently tearing down Stalin statues and I doubt many Hitler statues survived shorty after his death.

    I know you now want to move away from history to find some new vector to flail from but you know what... you don't have to.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Why is it that when people here slowly lose a argument they try to make the argument so absurd they can make a single counter point?

    To my knowledge no one is currently tearing down Stalin statues and I doubt many Hitler statues survived shorty after his death.

    I know you now want to move away from history to find some new vector to flail from but you know what... you don't have to.
    I'm not moving away from history. I'm asking why it was okay for Germany to take down statues of Hitler...but taking down statues of the Confederacy is somehow "erasing history"?

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Can you define fairly recent for me?

    I am assuming fairly recently exceeds a century on average doesn't it?
    More like built in the 20th century during 2 major periods the height of the Jim Crow laws early 20ths century and during the Civil Rights movement. Two periods that coincidentally where white people were trying to reaffirm over black people that they were the dominant race and that black people needed to learn their place.

  5. #385
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    More like built in the 20th century during 2 major periods the height of the Jim Crow laws early 20ths century and during the Civil Rights movement. Two periods that coincidentally where white people were trying to reaffirm over black people that they were the dominant race and that black people needed to learn their place.
    [IM]https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/c_fill,g_auto,w_1200,h_675,ar_16:9/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F170816135714-gfx-monuments-over-time-splc.jpg[/IMG]
    As an aside, I have always taken issue with it being called "Tulsa race riot"

    It wasn't a race riot... it was a terrorist attack.. with fire bombing and airplanes and systematic looting, explosion and killing of black people.

    Calling it "Tulsa race riot" instead of was it was. Like Tulsa Massacre, annoys me.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I'm not moving away from history. I'm asking why it was okay for Germany to take down statues of Hitler...but taking down statues of the Confederacy is somehow "erasing history"?
    I already answered. I get your trying to be dense now but there is a difference between something erected for a few years and erected for over a century.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    More like built in the 20th century during 2 major periods the height of the Jim Crow laws early 20ths century and during the Civil Rights movement. Two periods that coincidentally where white people were trying to reaffirm over black people that they were the dominant race and that black people needed to learn their place.
    You know rather then copy paste a graph at the wrong resolution you can say " Yes,yes they are all mostly a century or more old"

  7. #387
    It's always interesting when you see the same people consistently defending racism and police brutality in every possible thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I already answered. I get your trying to be dense now but there is a difference between something erected for a few years and erected for over a century.
    Why does it matter how long they were up? And what happened to Art being History? Isn't a Statue of Hitler as much a piece of Art as a Statue of Robert E. Lee?

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Why does it matter how long they were up? And what happened to Art being History? Isn't a Statue of Hitler as much a piece of Art as a Statue of Robert E. Lee?
    I don't really think you grasp what historical means...

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I don't really think you grasp what historical means...
    Wait...what?

    Now I really want to hear how you "grasp" what Historical means.

    Please, educate me. I really can't wait


  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Wait...what?

    Now I really want to hear how you "grasp" what Historical means.

    Please, educate me. I really can't wait

    If something stood for less then ten years it doesn't have much historical value... your trying to compare something that lasted for generations with something that likely didn't last one.

    I get your trying for sarcasm but when people actually have to explain basic concepts to you it misses the mark.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    If something stood for less then ten years it doesn't have much historical value... your trying to compare something that lasted for generations with something that likely didn't last one.

    I get your trying for sarcasm but when people actually have to explain basic concepts to you it misses the mark.
    That's not what "historical" means.

    It doesn't matter how long something has stood. What matters is the impact it had.

    Hitler had a pretty big impact on history. So much so that even the thought of building a monument to him is repulsive to most people.

    Maybe you should educate yourself on why those confederate monuments were built and what they represent.

    I get that you are trying to make it seem like anyone who questions you is somehow beneath you...but you're failing. Your arguments are inconsistent. You just keep on trying to throw shit at the wall until something sticks.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2020-06-22 at 04:07 AM.

  13. #393
    "I don't see the attempt to destroy historical monuments as a positive."
    - guy who admits he doesn't know history of said monuments, and when presented by said history, just hand waves and ignores it.

    like at least try.

  14. #394
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    If something stood for less then ten years it doesn't have much historical value... your trying to compare something that lasted for generations with something that likely didn't last one.

    I get your trying for sarcasm but when people actually have to explain basic concepts to you it misses the mark.
    that's not how history works.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    If something stood for less then ten years it doesn't have much historical value... your trying to compare something that lasted for generations with something that likely didn't last one.

    I get your trying for sarcasm but when people actually have to explain basic concepts to you it misses the mark.
    Monuments don't teach history. Schooling and school does.
    Monuments glorify (generally, a monument can be a memorial and a remembrance. But to some degrees even those glorify). Monuments glorify what they portray.

    A thing Romans knew. They were great at pulling down monuments built by emperors who weren't popular. Once said emperor was dead.
    - Lars

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    If something stood for less then ten years it doesn't have much historical value... your trying to compare something that lasted for generations with something that likely didn't last one.

    I get your trying for sarcasm but when people actually have to explain basic concepts to you it misses the mark.
    So much for all that holier than thou attitude huh? What a shock that your grasp on history, and the meaning of historical, is flimsy at best.

  17. #397
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Because I don't see the attempt to destroy historical monuments as a positive.

    There really hasn't been a time when it was supported were it wasn't the precursor to something terrible happening.
    Honest question:

    In 1945, nearly every city in my country had a hitler street, a hitler plaza, and a hitler statue.

    Streets and plazas were renamed. Statues removed.

    Do you see this destruction or re-writing of history?

    Ah just saw your decade rule. So a Hitler statue from 19334should never be removed, but one from 1935 is fair game?

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Honest question:

    In 1945, nearly every city in my country had a hitler street, a hitler plaza, and a hitler statue.

    Streets and plazas were renamed. Statues removed.

    Do you see this destruction or re-writing of history?
    I mean allies certainly wanted to erase some heritage of his and rewrite public image of him from being a benevolent and beloved nation leader to a diabolical abomination

  19. #399
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    I mean allies certainly wanted to erase some heritage of his and rewrite public image of him from being a benevolent and beloved nation leader to a diabolical abomination
    So... they took down the statues to correct a public misconception?

    I wonder which statues would that apply too (something of "state rights" rings in my ears)

  20. #400
    Brewmaster Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    So... they took down the statues to correct a public misconception?
    I'd say to cement Germany's ultimate defeat. I understand people wanting to cement confederates ultimate defeat as well, it was strange to allow them to be built in the first place

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