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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    While I can think of shit ton more things, whose statues would be more important, in the sense of historical awareness. I do mean things... because having a statue of a DNA strand, might be more relevant than those those discover or manipulate it. If we are to build statues to those who made significant historical strides, why not build statues to their work, instead of them selfs? I think they would prefer it that way...
    Horrible people who are only known for one thing and could be considered horrible even in there own era should hardly be glorified.

  2. #142
    I wouldnt be sad if they removed the Karl Marx memorial in germany tbh. Its ugly af anyway.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Regardless, they are monuments to slave owners. The issue with tearing them down, isn’t because they were not genocidal slave owners or it’s difficult. It’s the same reason why we don’t prey to their gods and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish ancestor from a Greek slave and a Greek free person.
    Most of our ancient statues are for Gods of the Olympic Pantheon anyway. Who were almost all murderous rapists.
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  4. #144
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Most of our ancient statues are for Gods of the Olympic Pantheon anyway. Who were almost all murderous rapists.
    Yeah, but they aren't real, which makes their murdering and raping also not real.
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    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #145
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    I wouldnt be sad if they removed the Karl Marx memorial in germany tbh. Its ugly af anyway.
    Good thing that statue is not involved in this discussion.
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  6. #146
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    There are books, encyclopedias, documentaries, museums and other sources of historical documentation that keep people Leopold II or Jefferson Davis or any other historical piece of shit in history's memory.

    Which means, we don't need statues that glorify their shit ass behavior.

    You also don't need to behave like a degenerate ape and destroy historical things you don't like. Better go and blow up museums as well. We don't need shit if its all on wikipedia right?

  7. #147
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    You also don't need to behave like a degenerate ape and destroy historical things you don't like. Better go and blow up museums as well. We don't need shit if its all on wikipedia right?
    Please point to the part of my post where I said anything about behaving like degenerate apes or blowing up museums.

  8. #148
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Please point to the part of my post where I said anything about behaving like degenerate apes or blowing up museums.
    Your defense of destroying statues is exactly that.

  9. #149
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Your defense of destroying statues is exactly that.
    Museums have value, statues of genociders do not.
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  10. #150
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Your defense of destroying statues is exactly that.
    I'm saying they should be removed, not that they should be removed without going through a legal process. And again, I said nothing about blowing up museums, I even made a point earlier in this thread saying they are fine in places where the appropriate context is given, like Stonewall Jackson's statue at Manassas.

  11. #151
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Your defense of destroying statues is exactly that.
    I'd like to point out that the statues which are getting destroyed outright are ones that have been heavily controversial for years and in many cases have remained up against the wishes of local residents. We saw this play out with the statue of Lee in Richmond; Northam agreeing to remove the statue as soon as possible was in part to save it from getting toppled and destroyed like other monuments, which makes the owners of the land seeking their injunction all the more hilarious because the long it's out there the greater the chance they get the statue back in pieces.
    This website is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. The danger is in a particular location. The danger is still present in your time as it was in ours.

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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    You also don't need to behave like a degenerate ape and destroy historical things you don't like. Better go and blow up museums as well. We don't need shit if its all on wikipedia right?
    How about we replace their statues, with a memorial to their accomplishments? After all, we are not degenerate apes worshipping idols, but are celebrating accomplishments. Let’s try it... name one of the statues being torn down and we can discuss what a statue depicting their accomplishments would look like.
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  13. #153
    Buddhas of Bamyan were destroyed in Afghanistan in 01. To the locals they were deserving of destruction.

  14. #154
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Buddhas of Bamyan were destroyed in Afghanistan in 01. To the locals they were deserving of destruction.
    What a ridiculous non sequitur, lol.

    Ignoring the fact you can't seem to tell the difference between democratic opinion and fundamentalist warlords, local opinion is a consideration, not the only consideration.

    It's also a function of -what- the monuments are commemorating.
    This website is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. The danger is in a particular location. The danger is still present in your time as it was in ours.

    Get in loser, we're saving the USPS.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    ... John C. Calhoun is forever associated with Clemson, weather they like it or not. Clemson was founded based on Calhoun's will, it is located on his land, founded with his money, and built by his slaves. It is named for his Son-in-Law, who was its first President and founder. Clemson's mission was to bring agricultural and engineering knowledge to the Upstate of South Carolina, which is what it has done, and continues to do, and it has been very successful at.

    Rather then pretending the racist founder never existed, I would prefer they own that shit, and put it up there with all the uncomfortable context. Make it clear that yes, we got founded by a horrible person, and yes, the land and money came from the enslavement of human beings, but we have acknowledged that, moved past it, and in the ultimate spite to John C. Calhoun's memory, we are now using his legacy for the advancement of all South Carolinians, white and black. I find that far more important and poetic then just refusing to acknowledge he has any connection to Clemson university in the first place. This isn't unique to Clemson (It is just the one I live right next too), Oxford went through something similar with Cecil Rhodes. I would much rather slap the historical context unto it, and treat the whole thing as a learning opportunity that darkness in our past is a part of every people and culture on the planet, and that we can move past it.
    South Africa simply buried the Rhodes legacy. Oxford... tried to, but some wealthy donors let it know that if Rhodes goes, so do the donations.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Really we can tear them all down. If acting like common for the age is all it takes then all need to go down. Martin luther king was a homofobe i guess he need to go also.
    This kinda highlights the problem in a nutshell. Every single statue erected prior to the year 2000 represents a slaver or a homophobe or a misogynist or a racist or a transphobe, hell some of them were even terrorists, how are we supposed to decide which ones should go and which ones should stay? The statues were erected to commemorate something great/heroic that person did, the fact they also did things or held views that were considered normal at the time but are shameful today should either be a problem for all of them or not a problem.

  17. #157
    Don't live in Europe, however I say tear down the statues of those who were irredeemably evil and keep the ones where tearing them down would be a "Thou without sin..." moment.

  18. #158
    I took a shrug approach to this whole thing bc whatever until I saw they vandalized the statue of Churchill??

    Yeah spare me that nonsense the people tearing statues down are just looking for things to be outraged not any legitimate anger or whatever

  19. #159
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    I took a shrug approach to this whole thing bc whatever until I saw they vandalized the statue of Churchill??

    Yeah spare me that nonsense the people tearing statues down are just looking for things to be outraged not any legitimate anger or whatever
    I suppose comitting genocide is okay if that person agrees with you. But it does not surprise me you seem to love such a racist asshat, even by his own time's standards.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial...hurchill#India
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2020-06-17 at 10:04 PM.
    Joe Biden and Donald Trump are rapist and their supporters are rape apologists

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  20. #160
    If people want outrage then every US president up to...at least Jimmy Carter should make the list.

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