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  1. #81
    I would give a hard look at your logs through WoW Analyzer. If you're performing at a high level, with only nit picky areas to be improved on, then the benching is for non-performance reasons, and you're better off finding a new home. I was never in top 100 raiding myself, but I've never been benched in Mythic, and almost every time I saw someone benched it was because they either did not need any loot from the boss, they willingly sat out, or they were under performers. The former two are OK, but if your guild thinks it's the latter, and your logs beg to differ, it's time to bail.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by protpaul View Post
    This hasn't ever happened to me before... I usually am leading the pack in any group or guild I've joined but now... now I'm told they simply can't bring that many melee for the fight.


    I admit to being a bit lost.. my first reaction was not... well not very mature I accused them of conspiracy and punishing me for bad luck on drops pre vendor... but now that everything has settled down I'm a bit lost....


    What does one do while benched...? Do I pug mythic? I'm not really sure what to do while waiting to see if I'm needed for backup.
    Looked through the replies here and was surprised that nobody seemed to say this.

    What you really are supposed to do is to talk with your raid leader, simple as that. Ask them to set aside few minutes for you and ask them for the reason you are benched and more importantly how do you improve from then. You do not want to argue, do not be defensive, you want to learn what is the matter, then act accordingly.

    Your next step depends on how this discussion goes.

    If they do not talk to you, leave guild immediately. But its unlikely scenario, what will actually happen is that RL will tell you what is the issue here. It could be class thing, specific comp for specific boss or simple fact that there are only few spots and other players are performing better than you are.

    You want to assess this carefully, do not give any definite statements to RL, thank them for the time and start thinking if its likely you would go back in the fold in near future depending on what the actual issue is. If you think you can't reasonably meet the criteria, leave or go social if you prefer to stay in guild.

    If you think yes, stay and be available for raids even if they don't take you. Ask with RL again to have them test you, you would definitely be put up for bosses your guild has on farm and that is your opportunity to prove you are an asset.

    Oh and one more thing, out of experience I can tell you that unless RL wants you gone (you would get boot by now though), they will underplay the issue even if they are not happy with you. It is always better to have few people on the bench and so they don't want to spook you into leaving. Do not fall to vague explanations or assurances, you want to know what is an issue and what do you do to improve and do not stop asking until you get exactly that.

    Finally in relation to weekly lockout, you discuss it with RL. You definitely want to have free schedule for the first raiding day. After that you should approach RL and inform that you would be pugging since you need to grab some gear etc, they will agree with you no problem. If you did not get into first bosses, you will definitely not get into progressions/end bosses.

    Best of luck with your raiding dude.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by protpaul View Post
    Limited melee spots and a feeling that rather then poor luck it was my laziness that set me back early in the tier. I mean we had people reroll range for the right it wasn't entirely unexpected.
    So others were prepared to sacrifice for the guild and you're sitting here wondering what went wrong? You're lucky you weren't kicked for your lack of commitment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenis View Post
    Most people would raid mythic if the bosses had no loot at all. Loot is only means to the end, not the end.
    *citation needed

    Would some people? Sure. Would MOST people? Questionable.

  5. #85
    Buy a carry run and get the kill before they do. Make sure you get the achievement popping on gchat WHILE THEY ARE PROGRESSING. That will fucking sting when the guy they benched for being subpar gets the kill before they do it and not in a manner that is obvious that it's a paid boost. If they give you shit because of that, you know that guild is absolute dogshit and you should just "aight cya" and /gquit instantly.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Well if you're satisfied with raiding heroic and maybe 3 mythic bosses, then you definitely don't need to worry about guilds and benches. Good luck pugging mythic Nzoth though, what the OP was after.
    Prior to mythic we used to clear heroic every tier without a bench. We didn't want to keep one because people pay to play, not warm the bench.

    Haven't really done any mythic raiding as I moved around alot during the last few years though.

  7. #87
    I mean being benched sucks, but from an officer perspective you're looking at a roster of >20 players and have to balance rotating people in with ensuring that the best/most appropriate team is taken to make fast progress.

    It would be nice if literally everyone could raid all the time, but that can't be done and compromising progress as a favour only ends up letting everybody down in the long run. What people often don't factor in is that officer teams have literally everyone in the guild coming at them with similar shit all the time and it's impossible to please everyone all the time. A lot of compromises have to be made; sometimes that involves people being benched - if the guild isn't trash then it's not personal.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    I mean being benched sucks, but from an officer perspective you're looking at a roster of >20 players and have to balance rotating people in with ensuring that the best/most appropriate team is taken to make fast progress.

    It would be nice if literally everyone could raid all the time, but that can't be done and compromising progress as a favour only ends up letting everybody down in the long run. What people often don't factor in is that officer teams have literally everyone in the guild coming at them with similar shit all the time and it's impossible to please everyone all the time. A lot of compromises have to be made; sometimes that involves people being benched - if the guild isn't trash then it's not personal.
    Eh, I know the reasoning behind it, but I'd still be looking for another guild personally. I don't pay for the game not play, and it's not like you can go get that kill elsewhere thanks to mythic still having hard coded lockouts.

  9. #89
    Just my two cents:

    You must not be one of the top melee in the group. Be it gear, performance, attendance, attitude. The other thing is the fight heavily favors range over melee. It is a final push and they are trying to do it with the best group they think possible.

    What you can do: 1) Continue to be a good raider and guildy and be prepared to step in whenever someone DC's or is absent. Watch them and listen to their progress to understand the issues they are having so that when you come in you can immediately understand and start to perform.

    2) You can quit, find a new guild and hope they need melee on N'Zoth. This will be extremely challenging, you will have to reassert yourself into a guild community, learn everyone's personalities etc. while putting your best foot forward. You will lose all the friends you have in your current guild most likely and if the new guild doesn't work out then you will be lost in the wilderness repeating step 2 until you find a good one. Which will be really tough. Most guilds are having attendance issues for progression. Your guild is 11/12M. It is a gem for attracting top talent that have yet to kill N'Zoth. Very experienced players out there, who have xp and a kill on mythic N'zoth and have a super gear alt or their main guild stopped raiding have taken your spot.

    3) Watch other players of your class. Do more research. Watch videos from their PoV, listen to them talk, understand what they are doing and why.

    Benching is a part of WoW raiding. Every class is weak at a particular fight. Melee just outright under performs versus range in the later fights. So do some honest thinking and take a hard look at yourself. Is it you? Is it the guild? Is it the encounter? Will I get my chance or perma-benched? Then make your decision. You leaving the guild won't really mean anything to the guild since they have a bench already and have a plethora of applicants.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Fun? Probably we’ve had very different guilds.

    The ones i’ve been in usally berrated/Bullied people who were slower to learn or wasen’t purple logs every raid.

    It’s not a very fun envirement but you put up with it due to the chance for gear. And loot council ofc, so not the highest chance they’d even give you gear that dropped.
    You being in a shit guild does NOT mean all guilds are shit. There are tons of guilds willing to help people, you just have to be willing to be helped (and judging by this post and your last one, you probably do not fall into the "want to be helped" category).

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    High end raiding is a group effort, for which you need more than 20 people. It's natural that some people are not invited to some fights and some are rotated. Throwing tantrums over this is childish at best.
    I admit it. I take rejection very badly, and being benched is a rejection of sorts.

    Though I have never been actually benched, given I play a BM hunter, but should it ever happen for whatever reason, it would be a major "reputation" loss with me.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Eh, I know the reasoning behind it, but I'd still be looking for another guild personally. I don't pay for the game not play, and it's not like you can go get that kill elsewhere thanks to mythic still having hard coded lockouts.
    I mean sure, that's kinda the problem. Guilds have to constantly recruit due to attrition on mythic prog because even though everyone will get rotated in once the boss is down, people get frustrated and guild hop.

    Equally, moving guilds isn't a great solution - if you're not in the progress team where you are, unless a guild is specifically looking for your class/role to fill a recent vacancy, you're not getting in their main prog team either. For what it's worth, length of time with the guild is also a factor in deciding who gets in on initial progress kills; it's a big risk to funnel gear to someone who might leave.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    Facts. Best thing to do is follow mechanics flawlessly and be top dog against fellow melee. At least that way you lock in one of the few melee slots.
    This is always been the #1 reason in any guild I've joined for benching a player, even if your DPS output is good: not following mechanics and/or instructions. This goes double for melee, who are typically not desired in mythic raiding due to encounter design favoring ranged DPS. Even my current guild struggles with this, where we have to balance the roster versus feeling like we need to keep in Mr. TunnelsAndIgnoresMechanics due to their class/role. While DPS performance (or HPS) is important, it's all for nothing if you cannot follow instructions or ignore mechanics that need to be executed. I'm sure everyone's seen that stereotypical melee DPS that looks great on the meter, but never interrupts, never focuses priority targets, takes tons of unnecessary damage, etc. If you have to make a choice between melee, the default is to go with those that listen and follow mechanics.

    If none of this applies to you and you just have a bunch of excess melee, roll a class that can do a role that's more mandatory or safer from getting sat. Mythic raiding is a different beast when it comes to class/spec requirements due to how it's balanced, so "bring the player, not the class" rarely applies when you're progressing with a mythic raid. I've seen some players that will break the meta by demonstrating that they bring something to the table while not holding the group back, but those are far and few between. Personally, I've mained the same character since vanilla because I've always made that sort of effort and have been recognized for it, even when doing hardcore mythic (or 25m heroic) progression. Even when my class/spec is weaker in raid fights, I never get sat because I follow directions and execute mechanics while performing my role well. However, if you're a cog-in-the-wheel player that doesn't stand out in any aspect with average performance, you're likely going to be the target of benching in a mythic raid.

    Anyways, I'm still hoping Blizz tries to move away from immunity soaking being so bloody important or able to trivialize major mythic raid mechanics. Unfortunately, with how difficult they tune mythic raids, many scenarios just straight up promote immunities.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2020-06-17 at 11:58 PM.
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    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by awadh View Post
    Buy a carry run and get the kill before they do. Make sure you get the achievement popping on gchat WHILE THEY ARE PROGRESSING. That will fucking sting when the guy they benched for being subpar gets the kill before they do it and not in a manner that is obvious that it's a paid boost. If they give you shit because of that, you know that guild is absolute dogshit and you should just "aight cya" and /gquit instantly.
    Yeah.. you definitely have to punish them for daring to have a roster larger than 20 and thus benching you, the god of wow.

  15. #95
    It's been a problem with high end raiding forever, Melee get the short end of the stick when it comes to mechanics and you end up having to bench them for ranged dps, it's not so much your fault as it is blizz's.

  16. #96
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Snatch as many expensive items out of the guild bank, tell the whole guild, including and especially the Guildmaster to f*** themselves, and that you wouldn't piss on them to put them out if they were on fire. Disparage the guild on trade chat for racism, necrophilia, Peter Pan syndrome, elderly abuse, and cap it all off with saying they will rue the day they benched you. Rub it all in that it's Retail so your reputation for mud flinging won't be affected because it's retail, so no one cares, and lastly, if you know their social media accounts, post images of monkey genitals on their Instagrams, FaceBook, and Tweeter accounts until they block you.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    *citation needed

    Would some people? Sure. Would MOST people? Questionable.
    I agree its far from a fact, but in my small circle of friends who raid mythic, the gear itself isnt the motivating factor, obviously we want the gear to improve our stats to allow us to perform better, but even if the set was visually the same as heroic or w/e, we would still run mythic. We all xmog our gear anyway so it really doesnt matter. Obviously others opinions might be different, thats how opinions work.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I agree its far from a fact, but in my small circle of friends who raid mythic, the gear itself isnt the motivating factor, obviously we want the gear to improve our stats to allow us to perform better, but even if the set was visually the same as heroic or w/e, we would still run mythic. We all xmog our gear anyway so it really doesnt matter. Obviously others opinions might be different, thats how opinions work.
    And I know a lot of people who love the purples, me included :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    I mean sure, that's kinda the problem. Guilds have to constantly recruit due to attrition on mythic prog because even though everyone will get rotated in once the boss is down, people get frustrated and guild hop.

    Equally, moving guilds isn't a great solution - if you're not in the progress team where you are, unless a guild is specifically looking for your class/role to fill a recent vacancy, you're not getting in their main prog team either. For what it's worth, length of time with the guild is also a factor in deciding who gets in on initial progress kills; it's a big risk to funnel gear to someone who might leave.
    It's a crap situation all around, it's why the guilds I helped run didn't have a bench. Was there times we couldn't raid heroic (pre-mythic days)? Sure. But overall our guild mates were very happy with their situation and we had little to no turnover (mostly people just burning out). It does take an incredibly flexible team who play many characters though.

  19. #99
    anyone still raiding after the last good xpac (pandaland) is a degenerate anyway

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    The loot is the progression tho?
    Again, your goal, not mine. Don’t be so close minded, my goal is to get CE. I would still do it if raids didn’t drop gear, and I know for a fact I am not the only one.

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