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  1. #21
    Dreadlord Frostyfire14's Avatar
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    MoP and WoD both had legendary catch up mechanics; however, if you started late in the expansion a new player would never fully able to catch up to someone who has played consistently all expansion. That's the reward for playing consistently.

    With that said, I do think alts need some sort of accelerated progression with Malefic Cores. Like, once you have a fully resistance capped cloak on one toon, you can purchase them for echoes on alts, or something.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I could go for being able to get those malefic cores more then once a week up to a certain point that is(Like 5 times a week). Not sure about constant farming. I said it before, if the cloak had some kind of catch up mechanism(In terms of rank) when 8.3 first came out, we might not need these catch ups.
    That's what it always comes down to, really. The catchups get added so late that they're not enough anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    MoP and WoD both had legendary catch up mechanics; however, if you started late in the expansion a new player would never fully able to catch up to someone who has played consistently all expansion. That's the reward for playing consistently.

    With that said, I do think alts need some sort of accelerated progression with Malefic Cores. Like, once you have a fully resistance capped cloak on one toon, you can purchase them for echoes on alts, or something.
    You absolutely could, what are you even talking about? The ring was pretty bad, but you could absolutely catch up on the cloak.

    So in like 3 months you'd be able to buy cores for alts?
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  3. #23
    Dreadlord Frostyfire14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    That's what it always comes down to, really. The catchups get added so late that they're not enough anymore.

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    You absolutely could, what are you even talking about? The ring was pretty bad, but you could absolutely catch up on the cloak.

    So in like 3 months you'd be able to buy cores for alts?
    Wrong. Let's pretend we're in WoD right now. If a fresh alt were to hit max level say next reset. You wouldn't able to fully upgrade that legendary ring until close to prepatch if, not at all. There were literal time gates (just like now) that prevent people from "farming" them. I couldn't even upgrade all 3 legendary rings to max on my Druid back then because there literally wasn't enough time to do it.

  4. #24
    I'll mention a system that Blizz already has in place that does it's job well when it comes to alt/returning player catch: artifact knowledge (AK).

    Whether you love or hate the artifact power system as a general concept, the AK system makes it incredibly friendly for players that haven't been playing. Having a system that exponentially makes catching up easier over time while not immediately negating the work of those who put the time/effort into grinding out your neck/weapons. What's also important is that there is a soft cap beyond where grinding AP becomes immensely less important and impactful, so the power gains are super tiny.

    Compare that to the legendary cloak and corruption resistance. There have been several adjustments to several system to allow getting your cloak to 15 much faster, but prior to that you still had to put in the same amount of grinding into Visions currency to upgrade your cloak because the amount of Visions you had to complete did not change over time. Blizz fixed that recently, quite a bit late... but better late than never, I suppose. Now let's look at what happens after your cloak gets to 15, and you need Malific Cores to further increase the CR of your cloak. While it's be easy to mistake these Cores as a soft cap, it's actually not since not only does the amount of CR you get with each core not decrease over time, but also the amount of CR you're getting is still pretty powerful and impactful. Furthermore, as others have mentioned, unlike AP with the AK system you cannot catch up to current people no matter how much effort you put in since the amount of Cores you can get each week is fixed (and there's no increasing rate of Core acquisition possible compared to how many Cores max CR cloaked players have acquired).

    Simply put, Blizz has implemented systems that can accomplish the spirit of a catch-up mechanic that work very well when it comes to balancing allowing players to not feel forever behind while not invalidating the effort of players who put in lots of time/effort at the start. The Malific Core acquisition system is not one of them.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    Wrong. Let's pretend we're in WoD right now. If a fresh alt were to hit max level say next reset. You wouldn't able to fully upgrade that legendary ring until close to prepatch if, not at all. There were literal time gates (just like now) that prevent people from "farming" them. I couldn't even upgrade all 3 legendary rings to max on my Druid back then because there literally wasn't enough time to do it.
    Based on Wowhead comments(nmb3000) it took about a month to go from fresh legendary ring to fully upgraded by the end. You were absolutely able to catch up, at least for your mainspec. Going from no legendary ring to legendary ring took a few weeks. So let's call it 2 months from no ring to maxed ring. That was trash(especially before they sped it up), but even that was better than the current cloak catchup.

    The MoP cloak was significantly easier to catch up on, but you seem to just have skipped over that part.

    And you know what? It doesn't actually matter how bad the catchup was for those. The goal should be to make current catchup good, not continue the same garbage arguments of "yeah but it was shit in the past too, so it should be shit now as well!" that people keep using.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2020-06-17 at 11:50 PM.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Based on Wowhead comments(nmb3000) it took about a month to go from fresh legendary ring to fully upgraded by the end. You were absolutely able to catch up, at least for your mainspec. Going from no legendary ring to legendary ring took a few weeks. So let's call it 2 months from no ring to maxed ring. That was trash(especially before they sped it up), but even that was better than the current cloak catchup.
    To math it out, Blizzard made Crystallized Fel purchasable from the Valor vendor for 1250 VP. You could farm a maximum of 4875 VP per week. You needed 25000 VP to get your ring to max level, excluding the one you automatically got from Archi. Without killing Archi every week, you could farm the max level ring in ~5 weeks. Farming Archi every week and that's reduced to just under 4. This is significantly faster than the catch up for CR in its current form.

  7. #27
    The Patient Motso's Avatar
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    Having been the type to take a break for a while and enjoy coming back and scrambling a little to catch up through most expansions.. It is more difficult (time consuming) than it has been in the past, but the sheer silliness of just HOW powerful you can get is just fun, and I can hack the extra time spent or whatever because of that. And of course I'll be behind, but not so much so that I can't do the fun shit at a decent level until SL prepatch.
    And this has been repeated ad naseum at this point but yeah, it just doesn't matter at the end of the day. We are all kinda treading water for a bit.
    Last edited by Motso; 2020-06-18 at 02:31 AM.

  8. #28
    We did it, Reddit!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    We did it, Reddit!
    Not quite sadly:

    This will be repeatable, up to the maximum that you could have otherwise earned via weekly Horrific Visions or from N’Zoth the Corruptor.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Not quite sadly:

    This will be repeatable, up to the maximum that you could have otherwise earned via weekly Horrific Visions or from N’Zoth the Corruptor.
    That doesn't mean "up to two". If the current cap is 91, you'll be able to buy them up to 91. That just means you can't go above the weekly set cap.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Not quite sadly:

    This will be repeatable, up to the maximum that you could have otherwise earned via weekly Horrific Visions or from N’Zoth the Corruptor.
    I read this as you can buy one Core per Vision completed so at an efficiency rate of 2.66:1 for lost Echoes you can essentially farm as many Cores as you need. The cost is a bit prohibitive, but it's a helluva lot better than nothing.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    Blizzard introduced numerous catch-up mechanics for the cloak recently but they are stubbornly refusing to address one of the biggest issues: Newly created characters are going to be months behind players who've played since Rank 15 was attainable. And each week that you aren't actively gaining Corruption resistance, you fall further behind the curve. Due to the amount of power you are able to achieve through Corruption (and the inclusion of the vendor) it seems absurd for Blizzard to only allow you to farm one extra Malefic Core per week. In an expansion that has already been noted for its alt unfriendliness, it's moves like these which make you wonder whether Blizzard is actively playing the game.
    Id sign on for that. Or at least make the weekly upgrade 5 per core or something. I only main one character really and at the rate my bags are filling up with TD and IS, i dont think ill be able to equip these pieces until SL lol.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    Id sign on for that. Or at least make the weekly upgrade 5 per core or something. I only main one character really and at the rate my bags are filling up with TD and IS, i dont think ill be able to equip these pieces until SL lol.
    I bumped this thread because they just added essentially exactly what I recommended. The OP has been updated. :-)

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Mythic+ is very much still a thing and will be until Shadowlands. And is it stands now if you run +20s with your main and want to switch to a fresh character you'll be a LOT less powerful. You'll have the experience, a couple runs of 15s sorts your gear out and gets you echoes for corruptions, you can farm your cloak to 15 and get some more items on your way. But you will still be 39 corruption behind your main which takes 6 weeks to catch up to where your main currently is, 9 weeks to have both chars at the same resistance in the end.

    It's just bonkers. And exactly because the tier is done and the expansion is done it should be farmable in less than 9 weeks.
    doing basic daily shit i end up with nearly 10k echoes a week. thats 5 upgrades. on top of the 2 you can get already. just say you dont want to do shit to farm echoes, or that you want to use the echoes for something else. dont act like there is nothing that can be done to catchup. jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    I concur. It's not a catchup mechanic if it still takes five months to catch up.
    if you do emissaries and assaults and basic shit you can get 5-7 upgrades a week. in what world is that more than 3ish weeks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    It's not a bad idea to let them be farmable.
    they are. do arena or m+ and you get echoes. on top of the basic shit like assaults or visions. seems farmable to me.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    doing basic daily shit i end up with nearly 10k echoes a week. thats 5 upgrades. on top of the 2 you can get already. just say you dont want to do shit to farm echoes, or that you want to use the echoes for something else. dont act like there is nothing that can be done to catchup. jesus.

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    if you do emissaries and assaults and basic shit you can get 5-7 upgrades a week. in what world is that more than 3ish weeks?

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    they are. do arena or m+ and you get echoes. on top of the basic shit like assaults or visions. seems farmable to me.
    Doesn't it say u can still only get up to 2 per week? I thought this just meant u can skip nzoth kills on alts.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusy View Post
    Doesn't it say u can still only get up to 2 per week? I thought this just meant u can skip nzoth kills on alts.
    You can skip N'Zoth kills and purchase an additional Core for every fully completed Vision each week up to the maximum level of Corruption resistance for the week you're doing doing it.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    doing basic daily shit i end up with nearly 10k echoes a week. thats 5 upgrades. on top of the 2 you can get already. just say you dont want to do shit to farm echoes, or that you want to use the echoes for something else. dont act like there is nothing that can be done to catchup. jesus.
    Look at the date my comment was made (hint: earlier than the announcement about echo purchase). Jesus.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    You can skip N'Zoth kills and purchase an additional Core for every fully completed Vision each week up to the maximum level of Corruption resistance for the week you're doing doing it.
    seems like everyone on the forums has no idea how it works

    half the people saying you can farm until you are current resist, half the people saying its still capped on 2 per week etc. crazy how much misinformation is going around

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    However, countless players went 12/12 at dramatically lower levels, so possibly, some people are just punching above their weight division.
    I would argue that people who haven't cleared yet needing all this help probably shouldn't even be where they are. Instead of understanding they are not good enough they cry to blizzard for more help and demanding changes to their power when actually getting good and understanding the fights will do a lot more for their performance.

    This change is for the entitled who are too shit to follow simple mechanics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusy View Post
    seems like everyone on the forums has no idea how it works

    half the people saying you can farm until you are current resist, half the people saying its still capped on 2 per week etc. crazy how much misinformation is going around
    There shouldn't be confusion. There's bitter cynical idiots who want to believe that Blizzard would release a system intended for catch-up and cap the weekly limit at two and there are people who are able to read. It seems people in the former group are who mainly post on this forum.

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