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  1. #1

    Hunters in Shadowlands

    Blizzard on other classes: you get this! This is coming back! Don't like that? We remove it and check out this new talent!!


    Blizzard on hunters: Hunters:
    Arcane Shot, Eye of the Beast, Hunter's Mark, Kill Shot, Scare Beast and Tranquilizing Shot are now returning and available to all specializations.
    Marksmanship:
    Volley is returning as a talent




    Thanks, when will hunters get some love?

  2. #2
    Looks like MM will continue to be trash at PVP, and BM the go-to for everything.

    This expansion is a filler, Blizzard didn't even bother to change the PVP balance from BFA.

  3. #3
    Hunters were always in an odd spot. Pre Legion there were 3 ranged specs available and you would just use whatever was the best for the current patch. All three played very similarly. The class is sort of "ranged warrior", especially specs like BM that have no castable spells.

    I like the changes that come to Hunter globally.
    Arcane Shot as a focus dump
    Kill Shot as execute - hopefully with the CD reset if it fails to kill a target like it used to have for years (via glyphs etc)
    Hunter's mark well that one is meh. Having it baked into Arcane Shot was good. It acts as a single target DPS buff and it's not really worth a GCD unless it's sort of council fight where you switch targets but not often.

    I think Blizzard tried too hard to make each spec its own class in Legion. The game has 12 classes, yet it felt like it has 36. Separate artifact weapons that imposed a massive penalty for re-speccing, separate spec quests, spec based mage towers, abilities pruned and relocated among specs (with almost no universally available abilities) etc etc.

    Playing different hunter specs should feel similar, like you are a hunter and the character should play like one, regardless what your spec is.

  4. #4
    BM: Focus Fire return possibly? Stampede baseline
    MM: Barrage baseline
    Surv: dunno, don't play it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    This expansion is a filler, Blizzard didn't even bother to change the PVP balance from BFA.
    Just trying to keep up with this logic. Wasn't BFA the filler expansion that everyone said? Now its Shadowlands? Maybe we should stop using that over-used phrase that literally only means "I don't like SL."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CerealLord View Post
    Just trying to keep up with this logic. Wasn't BFA the filler expansion that everyone said? Now its Shadowlands? Maybe we should stop using that over-used phrase that literally only means "I don't like SL."
    Yeah, so sad how these expansions look so bad that people just think they're fillers.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyze View Post
    Blizzard on other classes: you get this! This is coming back! Don't like that? We remove it and check out this new talent!!

    Blizzard on hunters: Hunters:
    Arcane Shot, Eye of the Beast, Hunter's Mark, Kill Shot, Scare Beast and Tranquilizing Shot are now returning and available to all specializations.
    Marksmanship:
    Volley is returning as a talent

    Thanks, when will hunters get some love?
    I don't quite see what you mean. Isn't that basically the same they did with most other classes?

    Volley seems pretty different from the old Volley iterations that I know of. I remember it was a channeled ability back in WotLK and I think it was a passive cleave in Legion or WoD that procced on autoattacks, but I never used it. This one seems to work like a ground effect, which I don't remember Hunters having before.

    I'm also not a big fan of Killshot or Hunter's Mark, so I can't say I'm thrilled with those changes. Eyes of the Beast and Scare Beast are not rotational spells and Tranq Shot is redundant since pets can dispel already. But there aren't a lot of other abilities to "return" to Hunters, are there? Serpent Sting comes to mind, but it wasn't particularly amazing either. Old versions of Deterrance were more powerful than the current Aspect of the Turtle, but since it got nerfed it's unlikely to get a buff to our immunity. MM used to have a knockback shot iirc, which could be useful to get back. Reworking Stampede to make it a useful ability again could be worthwhile. I can't think of anything else, although I didn't play during MoP which I hear was a time when Hunters were great.

    I'm all in for new stuff to make the class more fun, but I can't really agree with just hating on it with no arguments.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    I don't quite see what you mean. Isn't that basically the same they did with most other classes?
    Take a look at this: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/class...-the-unpruning

    Compare hunter with others

    Bear in mind these doesn't update all the balance druid, enhance, fury, fire mage etc changes from recently

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyze View Post
    Take a look at this: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/class...-the-unpruning

    Compare hunter with others

    Bear in mind these doesn't update all the balance druid, enhance, fury, fire mage etc changes from recently
    Yeah I can read. It looks about the same to me.

    Hunter changes are about the same in quantity as DKs, Warlocks, Mages and Priests. If you want to argue quality then you need to make the argument with your own words, not expect people to just read your mind. From what I've heard about the alpha, Mages and Priests are currently the worst classes. There are some changes that seem to be long to explain but aren't that big. Check Rogues and Monks. It seems like a lot if you just look at the amount of text, but it's not when you actually read them.

    Furthermore, there are more Hunter changes that aren't documented in that list (which must be true for all classes, really). Look at this one: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...changes/488490

    Demon Hunters have the least changes, but that makes sense since they were just introduced in Legion.
    Last edited by Khallid; 2020-06-18 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Same with Discipline priest or Shadow, you get some filler spells like prayer of mending or some extra heals under barrier. Oh noes a big mind blast too!

    Some specs will always get the short stick and that's life, better to reroll or quit if you don't like them (this coming from somebody who has played priest for 14 years).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    Yeah I can read. It looks about the same to me.

    Hunter changes are about the same in quantity as DKs, Warlocks, Mages and Priests. If you want to argue quality then you need to make the argument with your own words, not expect people to just read your mind. From what I've heard about the alpha, Mages and Priests are currently the worst classes. There are some changes that seem to be long to explain but aren't that big. Check Rogues and Monks. It seems like a lot if you just look at the amount of text, but it's not when you actually read them.

    Furthermore, there are more Hunter talent changes that aren't documented in that list. Look at this one: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...changes/488490

    Demon Hunters have the least changes, but that makes sense since they were just introduced in Legion.
    Yes but many other specs has gotten alot more changes recently and hunters gotten none, not the only class tho but I'm talking hunters now.

    Shaman, balance druid, Warrior, Dk, warlock, fire mage, Ret Paladin, to mention few.

    I believe hunters are looking rather dull atm and could use some love
    Last edited by Euroguy; 2020-06-18 at 03:05 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyze View Post
    Yes but many other specs has gotten alot more changes recently and hunters gotten none, not the only class tho but I'm talking hunters now.

    Shaman, balance druid, Warrior, Dk, warlock, fire mage, Ret Paladin, to mention few.

    I believe hunters are looking rather dull atm and could use some love
    Unfortunately, that's a rather weak argument. A better argument would be to point out issues with how the specs work. Why is it dull and what can be done to fix it? Why are the changes added not helping to adress the issue?

    I don't really find Hunters dull, which is what I seem to disagree with you. I'm mostly ok with how BM and MM play, and I don't play melee so Surv is dead to me.

    Still, I have some issues with how BM plays right now that these changes don't address. Like how Barbed Shot does too many things at once. The incentive to extend the duration of Frenzy (by hitting Barbed Shot at the end of the buff) contradicts the incentive to maximize the value of Wild Call (by hitting Barbed Shot early to avoid the proc to be wasted). It also annoys me that the cooldown reduction to Bestial Wrath can get wasted if I need to hit Barbed Shot to refresh Frenzy at the same time Bestial Wrath comes off cooldown, which is an issue caused by the addition of a GCD to Bestial Wrath. It doesn't happen that often but it always annoys a lot me when it does. None of the changes have done anything to smooth out any of these clunky interactions from Barbed Shot, which isn't hard to fix. If Frenzy and Wild Call applied to different abilities the first problem would be gone. If Bestial Wrath didn't have a GCD the second issue would be gone, or you could even add a second charge to Bestial Wrath instead.
    Last edited by Khallid; 2020-06-18 at 03:31 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    I don't quite see what you mean. Isn't that basically the same they did with most other classes?

    Volley seems pretty different from the old Volley iterations that I know of. I remember it was a channeled ability back in WotLK and I think it was a passive cleave in Legion or WoD that procced on autoattacks, but I never used it. This one seems to work like a ground effect, which I don't remember Hunters having before.

    I'm also not a big fan of Killshot or Hunter's Mark, so I can't say I'm thrilled with those changes. Eyes of the Beast and Scare Beast are not rotational spells and Tranq Shot is redundant since pets can dispel already. But there aren't a lot of other abilities to "return" to Hunters, are there? Serpent Sting comes to mind, but it wasn't particularly amazing either. Old versions of Deterrance were more powerful than the current Aspect of the Turtle, but since it got nerfed it's unlikely to get a buff to our immunity. MM used to have a knockback shot iirc, which could be useful to get back. Reworking Stampede to make it a useful ability again could be worthwhile. I can't think of anything else, although I didn't play during MoP which I hear was a time when Hunters were great.

    I'm all in for new stuff to make the class more fun, but I can't really agree with just hating on it with no arguments.
    I'd say you're quite spot on when it comes to what I wanna see for BM

    As for Marksman I'd love if they either rework or completely scrap Hunter's Mark because I think it's gonna feel frustrating right now when target swapping because you know they will balance Marksman with that 5% damage boost in mind, I've also never been a big fan of Rapid Fire, would much rather they remove that ability all together and go back to Chimeara Shot as baseline acting the way it used to, not the weak version we currently have in BfA where it more or less tickles the enemies it hits for some low amount of focus.

    Can't really comment on Survival other than that I just want the old Ranged style Survival back over all else, it was one of the big reasons I made my Hunter back in Cataclysm and I miss it dearly
    Last edited by Exorzon; 2020-06-18 at 07:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    I'm also not a big fan of Killshot or Hunter's Mark, so I can't say I'm thrilled with those changes. Eyes of the Beast and Scare Beast are not rotational spells and Tranq Shot is redundant since pets can dispel already. But there aren't a lot of other abilities to "return" to Hunters, are there? Serpent Sting comes to mind, but it wasn't particularly amazing either. Old versions of Deterrance were more powerful than the current Aspect of the Turtle, but since it got nerfed it's unlikely to get a buff to our immunity. MM used to have a knockback shot iirc, which could be useful to get back. Reworking Stampede to make it a useful ability again could be worthwhile. I can't think of anything else, although I didn't play during MoP which I hear was a time when Hunters were great.

    I'm all in for new stuff to make the class more fun, but I can't really agree with just hating on it with no arguments.
    Hunter's Mark is a huge thing in PVP. The BM bleed lasts too little to counter a rogue's Vanish. Note that for the 1st three seconds after Vanish, rogues take no damage, so they can literally vanish with bleeds on them, and if the bleeds run out before those 3 sec, then it's a full stealth. A good rogue will exploit this. Not to mention they can just sprint away and go out of your range while your pet waddles towards them, and then just restealth.

    Killshot is also a huge thing in PVP. BM burst is pretty damn low, and there is no Execute ability, well other than the talent that makes the pet do more damage on targets at low HP, which is NOT an Execute by any means.
    The addition of Killshot vastly improves BM burst in PVP, especially when you couple it with Flayed Shot (Venthyr) https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel...49/flayed-shot , which you should if you do mostly raiding and casual pvp, like me.

    Tranquilizing Shot is also good. It allows you to use other pets than the go-to spirit beast which seems to be mandatory for PVP. It will likely share cd with Spirit Shock, so you won't be able to have double dispels, but now you can use a Cunning beast for the Master's Call AND also have a dispel.


    All in all, these are quite literally just PVP buffs for BM. They don't really affect PVE, but they're extremely juicy for PVP.
    Last edited by The Butt Witch; 2020-06-19 at 08:35 AM.

  15. #15
    BM: more beast!
    make animal companion baseline
    make dire beast effect (sum + beast) baseline
    remove chimera, goes to MM
    Stampede main cd, maybe even swap for bestial wrath (stampede every 2 min BW on 5 min)
    Amoc BM only and on baseline rotaion (maybe is the new volley for BM)
    Spitting cobra reworked to some kind of proc on hit placing snake to target an nearby

    MM bring legolas style back (with old surv)
    Bake old survival in it with Talent!
    with explosive shot replacing aimed shot
    black arrow replace serpent sting
    old proc interaction like thrill of the hunt givin instant explosive
    a dual specc inside the same specc!
    one is a ranger sniper, long powerfull cast, stand still to shoot, high controlled burst, more dmg overall but punitive
    the other a legolas style all instant all mobility full sustain dmg, less dmg but full relaiable of zero downtime (7-10% less dmg on patchwork style)(same or +5% dmg in full caos)

    SV
    ????? i don't play it and never will, make a hunter to play ranged not "harpoon master"

  16. #16
    Aspect of the fox fixes marksman. Anyone disagree?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyas View Post
    Aspect of the fox fixes marksman. Anyone disagree?
    It doesn't do jackshit for PVP.

  18. #18
    Imagine playing a class with 2 very strong (one of them even OP) specs and still complaining, while SL is still alpha and nothing is final yet. You guys bored or what?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    It doesn't do jackshit for PVP.

    Casting aimed shot while moving doesn't count for anything?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Easyclassictopkeklel View Post
    Imagine playing a class with 2 very strong (one of them even OP) specs and still complaining, while SL is still alpha and nothing is final yet. You guys bored or what?
    Which two are you talking about? BM is the only strong spec.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyas View Post
    Casting aimed shot while moving doesn't count for anything?
    Given how many tools melee have to stay in range, and that you are slowed for most of the fight, a long cd that allows you to cast while moving for a little while, isn't helping anyway.

    Quite literally the only way to fix MM pvp is to make baseline Aimed Shot castable while moving.
    Last edited by The Butt Witch; 2020-06-19 at 07:23 PM.

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