The Night Elves/borne discussion thread

[Rhlor]

Then let's not go there.

But about night elves and nightborne, are you telling me the... "The Night Elves/borne discussion thread" Is not the place to have a discussion about eye shapes? You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but this is kinda THE place to have this discussion.

And as I said, personally, if I am an advocate for expanding customization across the board, I am not going to be "but let's keep this exclusive" when there's not a strong lore reason for it. So "but the NB have to have an unique eye shape" by itself doesn't cut it for me, just like I advocate for giving NB NE ear options, since Elisande and Alluriel also have them.

This is the NE/NB thread, so that's what I am talking about. Feel free to disengage wherever you want.

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IMO it's the sort of variation that doesn't make sense in the lore to be exclusively nightborne, Azshara's eyes do look more like NB ones.

So unless there's a lore reason for why NB have squintier eyes, It's not the sort of thing that should be exclusive to them. Just like we have seen NB with regular NE ears.

the nightborne were mutated by the nightwell perhaps their eyes are an ethnic characteristic like the East Asians.

I guess this would be a give and take. what would the nightborne have in exchange? night elves hairstyles? night elf skin colors? night elf ears?

[Hellspawn]

the nightborne were mutated by the nightwell perhaps their eyes are an ethnic characteristic like the East Asians.

I guess this would be a give and take. what would the nightborne have in exchange? night elves hairstyles? night elf skin colors? night elf ears?

That's a pretty tribalistic stance I entirely disagree with.

Also as we see with Void Elfs and Blood Elfs, it is not how blizzard goes about when they add new customizations.

If there is something from Nelfs you want to see on NBs go for it and request it, there does not need to be an exchange 1 to 1.

[TrueHorde]

.
these mana style colors are amazing,especially the purple.

They should add them as NBs new skin colors.

[Alanar]

the nightborne were mutated by the nightwell perhaps their eyes are an ethnic characteristic like the East Asians.

I guess this would be a give and take. what would the nightborne have in exchange? night elves hairstyles? night elf skin colors? night elf ears?

Not sure about the asian part, but yes the Nightwell did change them as we could see in the nightwell cinematic.
The mana hands, hair, skincolors and probably the eyes as well. I mean they are literally infused with magic. Or its a highborne thing were the sole purpose of that look is to make them more proud, wise.

[Hellspawn]

Even in the original box art of warcraft 3 night elf eyes are pretty narrow

[Rhlor]

Not sure about the asian part, but yes the Nightwell did change them as we could see in the nightwell cinematic.
The mana hands, hair, skincolors and probably the eyes as well. I mean they are literally infused with magic. Or its a highborne thing were the sole purpose of that look is to make them more proud, wise.

Everything is possible but it is really something so the Nightborne players for a long time with hands and hair with mana effects.
If it was shared, it would obviously be a loss of its unique appearance. In any case, the right would be that something of the NE shared with the Nightborne if that happened.

[Hellspawn]

You can also look at the classic night elf model, they also had different eye shapes:

[Moonrage]

Narrow eyes are not unique to Nightborn, if you look at the Azshara Nightelf model, she got it too. Also, I think the old Night Elf model got some variation with more narrow eyes as well.

I think it would be a great addition, not just for Night Elfs, would be cool for the races as well. It just gives a nicely different vibe to the character.

Exactly, even in official artwork, Night Elves are often depicted with narrow eyes. Even Tyrande's cata model had them.

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Even in the original box art of warcraft 3 night elf eyes are pretty narrow

Some more Night Elves with narrow eyes:

[qwerty123456]

Why do half the male Nightborne faces look like they smelled a really bad fart?

[Mace]

the nightborne were mutated by the nightwell perhaps their eyes are an ethnic characteristic like the East Asians.

I guess this would be a give and take. what would the nightborne have in exchange? night elves hairstyles? night elf skin colors? night elf ears?

Dude, no...the only thing different about the Nightborne were the male ears...ofc and they were skinny. Ohyscially. okay I simplify.

You have to know the reason for the appearance changes. Narrow eyes has nothing ot do with the nightwell. The kaldorei had narrow eyes in their original model, all were widened in the transition. The skinny frame was meant to reflect their subsistence on mana, . The nightwell showed very minor changes. a change, but minor, and we believe it wasn't meant to be permanent, the majority of the Nightborne would die - those aligned to the legion, the Nightfallen would be saved and healed into night elves by the Arcan'dor. Notice how originally the female npc model ears were kaldorei, only changed in the last patch of beta legion. Also notice how nightfallen ears were night elven too.

This only changed when they decided allied races would come in Legion, and that Nightborne would be playable.. the story was altered a little bit. Thalyssra was healed back to Nightborne instead o f night elven so she could lead the horde. So really it's the curved up ears and the slightly different skin tones. Very minor.


Anyway, this topic has picked up considerably now it's focusing on Nightborne, the power of getting the horde fanbase involved is undeniable. Welcome to the night elf world, even though half of you refuse to see Nightborne as night elves, still regardless of whether you accept it or not, this is a cool side of hte night elves the horde is lucky to have. I hope it would excite horde players about night elven lore and night elven characteristics explored more.

The pre-sundering night elf era has so much mystery and depth, and i hope they continue to explore the Nightborne in this area to show the side of the kaldorei most of us only had glimpse off in the novels and so far have not seen a peep from the Shen'dralar and restored Highborne order on the alliance. hopefully that will change.. so the two of them can show different facets.. e.g. one shows how a pre-sundering era group fits in as a minority this time round in a more nature revering group with principals of balance and harmony underpinning and much less prestige and dependence on both magic and civilization, while the other explores how the kaldorei empire mindset would thrive in a modern day society with powerful other races no longer being the supreme sole super force, and how the influence of returning druidism and Elunism would impact a largely Highborne cultured section of the group.

There is so much to show about the kaldorei through the Darnassians and Shalassians, it is my hope and sincere desire, that blizzard will do this over time.

I hope you all stick around to enjoy it and get more into it. Can't let the Thalassians dominate the conversation endlessly.

[Rootsbum]

I never noticed how mutch younger Nightborne looks when doing the /shy emote. I kinda fell in love with that mild face. Too bad he turns into a grumpy old man whenever he goes back to the normal stance X)

[Alanar]

I never noticed how mutch younger Nightborne looks when doing the /shy emote. I kinda fell in love with that mild face. Too bad he turns into a grumpy old man whenever he goes back to the normal stance X)

I understand there is a wish for young faces in general, but they are an old race, so it makes sense in a way, but I think the male face broke, because the night elf angry face is literally on every face now, looks weird.

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You can also look at the classic night elf model, they also had different eye shapes:

Many races had completely different faces and eyes on the old models. It all started with the same face syndrom when new models were introduced and some still suffer from that.

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Dude, no...the only thing different about the Nightborne were the male ears...ofc and they were skinny. Ohyscially. okay I simplify.

You have to know the reason for the appearance changes. Narrow eyes has nothing ot do with the nightwell.

Not realy, you have to watch the Nighthold cinematic again, you clearly see Thalyssraa change from a regular Night elf to Nightborne. Skinny is one, but skincolor, ears, eyes and color, runic features etc. Ye they used to be night elves as shown, but they simply continued their magic studies and the Nightwell just changed their appearance slightly. No sun, no moon, people were starving etc etc. They are literally the last Highborne who just continued their lives and never realy changed their way of practising magic, but only enhanced it. They had no other option either it seems.

Nothing is mentioned of the eyes in lore from Nightborne, but it's more likely it's part of that transisition and just a way to make them look proud and looking down on lowbornes etc. But if you can find anything about it as in a source that would be great. It's neither at this point, but it's easier to explain it was just part of it. It's funny when you see them with regular eyes or the narrow eyes it almost feels like a complete overhaul, this is what I meant earlier. The eyes make Nightborne, Nightborne imo. Player model never felt like I was playing the real deal. Now we are getting closer to what it should feel like.

Many people find Night elves boring how they abbandoned magic and went for the whole wild thing. The cooler aspect is what players wanted to see and not the inside of a den. So my guess as in myself, I was interested in the whole Azshara aspect and what those upperclass highborne were doing, not realy what Tyrande r Malfurion was doing. So by saying this would spark interest in night elf lore in general is a no from me, purely because I liked one aspect of it. With that said.. the Nightborne just continued by themselves and it feels they never realy looked back, their whole package is just the opposite almost of Night elves. It never felt like the Nightborne realy cared or were interested in the Night elves when they met again in Legion. Ofc they have Night elf influences and things from the past, but that should be failry obvious sine they used to be that, the point is.. that it doesn't say much anymore.

Night elves are done for me afther the whole Legion fiasco, so for me it's tolate, but maybe new players who are new may find them interesting. A unpolpular opinion with the Night elf fans, but they(blizz) are trying hard to make them different and the last changes seem like they are seperating them even more from their cousins. My gut says that, that is here to stay and if you like that part of the old empire then Nightborne is there for you. It would feel pointless to give Night elves these things afther they added all these things to make them look different. Both races have their own niche it seems.. atleast this is what Blizz is trying it seems like. Which is a good thing.. every race needs it's own motivator.

[Ardenaso]

Dude, no...the only thing different about the Nightborne were the male ears...ofc and they were skinny. Ohyscially. okay I simplify.

the only thing the playable Nightborne and the playable Darnassian are their skin colors, which makes the Void Elf/Nightborne not a true "exchange/swap"

[Hellspawn]

Many races had completely different faces and eyes on the old models. It all started with the same face syndrom when new models were introduced and some still suffer from that.

Again it is not just the model, their (concept) Art always had narrow eyes since they appeared in warcraft 3.
I don't care what flavour of Night Elf you like, it really does not matter for this aspect. Night Elf always had narrow eyes it is nothing new.
For other features like their ears and especially their arcane tattoos I agree that Night Elf should not have them.

[Ardenaso]

lemme just open the Retera Model Studio to verify

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https://imgur.com/a/LzUyScv

well in Reforged they kinda retconned them to remove their squint; the Druid of the Talon seems to still have it

[Alanar]

Again it is not just the model, their (concept) Art always had narrow eyes since they appeared in warcraft 3.
I don't care what flavour of Night Elf you like, it really does not matter for this aspect. Night Elf always had narrow eyes it is nothing new.
For other features like their ears and especially their arcane tattoos I agree that Night Elf should not have them.

Artwork always looks different.. Both Azshara and Tyrande do have a slightly different eyeshape already adressed that, they are lore characters so their face looks differnt. Like anduin doesn't look exactly like the humans we play. Isn't the artwork you linked Tyrande as well?
Night elves never had that as a define feature or so out there as the Nightborne do. With sparse ammount of costumization in general in the game, these small features just matter more to make them feel different. They were literally introduced to us, like that. Which was noted instantly back in Legion by the playerbase as they look different.

Not realy about what flavour I like..? this is just how it is..., but it's more that you seem bitter because Night elves don't have it, for no real reason. It's only just now.. that people start to say this, before the 9.1.5 this wasn't even an discussion, more that night elf fans even said: we hope they get these things to look like their npc model. So why start now?

[Hellspawn]

lemme just open the Retera Model Studio to verify

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https://imgur.com/a/LzUyScv

well in Reforged they kinda retconned them to remove their squint; the Druid of the Talon seems to still have it

Reforge had an abyssal art direction I would not trust it for a moment. Also there are screens from WC3:R where they have more narrow eyes


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Artwork always looks different.. Both Azshara and Tyrande do have a slightly different eyeshape already adressed that, they are lore characters so their face looks differnt. Like anduin doesn't look exactly like the humans we play. Isn't the artwork you linked Tyrande as well?
Night elves never had that as a define feature or so out there as the Nightborne do. With sparse ammount of costumization in general in the game, these small features just matter more to make them feel different. They were literally introduced to us, like that. Which was noted instantly back in Legion by the playerbase as they look different.

Not realy about what flavour I like..? this is just how it is..., but it's more that you seem bitter because Night elves don't have it, for no real reason. It's only just now.. that people start to say this, before the 9.1.5 this wasn't even an discussion, more that night elf fans even said: we hope they get these things to look like their npc model. So why start now?

Concept art is always the base, and as you have pointed out, various custom models and the old model nelf have/had them.
Personally, I feel like, if they have the tech to do it... they should give a variant of narrow eyes to Night Elfs as well, Night Born still look different enough. I don't think that Night Elfs have the same vibe with narrow eyes like Night Born anyways.

[Alanar]

Reforge had an abyssal art direction I would not trust it for a moment. Also there are screens from WC3:R where they have more narrow eyes


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Concept art is always the base, and as you have pointed out, various custom models and the old model nelf have/had them.
Personally, I feel like, if they have the tech to do it... they should give a variant of narrow eyes to Night Elfs as well, Night Born still look different enough. I don't think that Night Elfs have the same vibe with narrow eyes like Night Born anyways.

Yea I am not sure about that.. here take a look I made on the ptr.



It's such a big difference that I can honestly say that, that was the main problem they looked to much like Night elves. Giving Night elves that option would kinda ruin the point of it, don't you think?
I added a suggestion on the officials to adda third option, which is more closely to the npcs. One guy already did that with a direct copy from the npcs. Look how muchh of a difference it makes.

[Hellspawn]

Yea I am not sure about that.. here take a look I made on the ptr.



It's such a big difference that I can honestly say that, that was the main problem they looked to much like Night elves. Giving Night elves that option would kinda ruin the point of it, don't you think?
I added a suggestion on the officials to adda third option, which is more closely to the npcs. One guy already did that with a direct copy from the npcs. Look how muchh of a difference it makes.

Even if you look just at the face you can still see they are different. If you take the entire model into consideration with the altered body type, tattoos, different ears and different run/idle animation they look different enough.

[Alanar]

Even if you look just at the face you can still see they are different. If you take the entire model into consideration with the altered body type, tattoos, different ears and different run/idle animation they look different enough.

It's about the face realy.. I mean I look at portraits and from time to time zoom in, those big open eyes on the nightborne were just weird and to night elf like compared to their npc.

Sure, but this was never a topic of debate as far as I can remember for Night elves.. ever. Only just now.. so to me all these questionable sources to show me..seem like reaching sorry, is it because you like the option you saw on the ptr and want it as well. Am I right?