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  1. #241
    I’ll answer that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    The shal'dorei were changed by the nightwell and the nightwell even now continues to exist, it will take a while for it to disappear and the physical changes of thousands of years will not disappear. I like that the shaldorei are unique and that they have unique things that make them look different that is the good thing that they are another race of elves.

    Suramar is the racial capital of the nightborne and as we see in the short story of lorthemar and thalyssra the city seems to be much better now. Hopefully in the future we can have the option to see a summation only with friendly npcs
    The Nightborne may have been physically changed to shalssians by the Nightwell. But they are still a night elven group and are a Kaldorei culture. They are just a sub group of that. A magically induced variation that isn’t a separate non Kaldorei elven group

    just like void elves are still a Thalassian group in a Thalassian culture despite being magically altered.

    Same with Lightforged Draenei.


    They may not be the original races strictly anymore b/c of their magical changes, but they are very much part of that racial group set even if a separate faction of it.

    Suramar and the Nightborne are 100% night elven culture and civilization. Just like Lightforged Draenei are 100% Draenei culture group.

    The Nightborne focus on a part of the Kaldorei that is very much Kaldorei and is exactly that side and city of the Kaldorei. You should know that. Just because they are called shal’dorei and their ears look different should somehow make this hard to see. Maybe it’s hard because you don’t see that side of the night elves shown in game. But it’s very clear in the books.

    Maybe if they had varied the void elves body a bit you would realise it’s the same thing done there also.

    I also think if blizzard had shown that side of the night elves in the shen’dralar like they did for Suramar it would be much easier for players like you to see what I am talking about.

    No one should need to point this out to you. Nightborne, like the other allied races are not new whole races void of the group they are based on. They are sub races, variations of existing races entirely based on those main races that explore a different story for that group one that changed them enough to be a playable sun race but not totally removed. And the Nightborne are entirely based on the night elves in their era during the War of the Ancients and their culture which just wasn’t shown fully in game till Suramar. And we all know the shen’dralar in Dire Mail and Darnassus are night elves in that culture.

    It is still Kaldorei whether the current Darnassians don’t live that way or only a small group does. Whether it was lived that way 10 years ago or 100,009 - it is a Kaldorei thing.

    if you can’t see that the Nightborne are a Kaldorei group, or can’t see the void elves are a Thalassian group or the Lightforged a Draenei group, the Zandalari a troll group or the Highmountain a TAUREN group. Then that’s on you. Just because their name is different and each of them had a magically altering experience - it’s so clear.

    Maybe you never read the night elf books or don’t know much about them, but Suramar is a night elven city and culture. And so are the Nightborne who are the rightful owners of Suramar.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2021-09-12 at 05:40 AM.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I’ll answer that.


    The Nightborne may have been physically changed to shalssians by the Nightwell. But they are still a night elven group and are a Kaldorei culture. They are just a sub group of that. A magically induced variation that isn’t a separate non Kaldorei elven group

    just like void elves are still a Thalassian group in a Thalassian culture despite being magically altered.

    Same with Lightforged Draenei.


    They may not be the original races strictly anymore b/c of their magical changes, but they are very much part of that racial group set even if a separate faction of it.

    Suramar and the Nightborne are 100% night elven culture and civilization. Just like Lightforged Draenei are 100% Draenei culture group.

    The Nightborne focus on a part of the Kaldorei that is very much Kaldorei and is exactly that side and city of the Kaldorei. You should know that. Just because they are called shal’dorei and their ears look different should somehow make this hard to see. Maybe it’s hard because you don’t see that side of the night elves shown in game. But it’s very clear in the books.

    Maybe if they had varied the void elves body a bit you would realise it’s the same thing done there also.

    I also think if blizzard had shown that side of the night elves in the shen’dralar like they did for Suramar it would be much easier for players like you to see what I am talking about.

    No one should need to point this out to you. Nightborne, like the other allied races are not new whole races void of the group they are based on. They are sub races, variations of existing races entirely based on those main races that explore a different story for that group one that changed them enough to be a playable sun race but not totally removed. And the Nightborne are entirely based on the night elves in their era during the War of the Ancients and their culture which just wasn’t shown fully in game till Suramar. And we all know the shen’dralar in Dire Mail and Darnassus are night elves in that culture.

    It is still Kaldorei whether the current Darnassians don’t live that way or only a small group does. Whether it was lived that way 10 years ago or 100,009 - it is a Kaldorei thing.

    if you can’t see that the Nightborne are a Kaldorei group, or can’t see the void elves are a Thalassian group or the Lightforged a Draenei group, the Zandalari a troll group or the Highmountain a TAUREN group. Then that’s on you. Just because their name is different and each of them had a magically altering experience - it’s so clear.

    Maybe you never read the night elf books or don’t know much about them, but Suramar is a night elven city and culture. And so are the Nightborne who are the rightful owners of Suramar.
    They are shaldorei not kaldorei

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    They are shaldorei not kaldorei
    Yes. But in the same way that void elves are not high elves. Void elves are still high elf based.

    Do you understand?

    Nightborne aren’t night elves but they are night elf based.

    Lightforged aren’t normal Draenei, but based off them.

    It’s not hard - it’s the same for every allied race except Vulpera

  4. #244
    My new nightborne







    https://i.imgur.com/c40izAA.jpg




    Love it. Now they look properly night elven but highborne /temple / city grade.

    Good job blizz.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2021-09-13 at 12:55 PM.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    My new nightborne







    https://i.imgur.com/c40izAA.jpg




    Love it. Now they look properly night elven but highborne /temple / city grade.

    Good job blizz.
    Very nice, but I still can't bring myself to make a Male Nightborne.
    My Nightborne will all remain being female.

    I might change my Blood Elf Warlock to a female nightborne warlock though - perhaps give her some green-like skin and green-like hair, with golden and purple jewelry. Maybe go for a Vashj'ir-like Highborne.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Very nice, but I still can't bring myself to make a Male Nightborne.
    My Nightborne will all remain being female.

    I might change my Blood Elf Warlock to a female nightborne warlock though - perhaps give her some green-like skin and green-like hair, with golden and purple jewelry. Maybe go for a Vashj'ir-like Highborne.
    Yeh. I always had a Nightborne lock, warrior, rogue - but decided to change my female Nightborne hunter and priest to male.. but that's because I have a female night elf hunter and priest - so having a Nightborne female ne makes little sense - same animations really even though I love the different looks



    Keeping my female nightborne mage and monk, might still do ahunter as survival spec, for the melee 2H animation on a female night elf, which id on't have yet in a toon as my female NELF wariror is dual wielding
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Yeh. I always had a Nightborne lock, warrior, rogue - but decided to change my female Nightborne hunter and priest to male.. but that's because I have a female night elf hunter and priest - so having a Nightborne female ne makes little sense - same animations really even though I love the different looks



    Keeping my female nightborne mage and monk, might still do ahunter as survival spec, for the melee 2H animation on a female night elf, which id on't have yet in a toon as my female NELF wariror is dual wielding
    I don't know how you do it.
    Can't stand leveling.

    I've now used my last free boost on a Night Elf Arcane/Frost Mage, which I think will serve as a nice counterpart to a Nightborne Destruction/Affliction Warlock.
    But the latter can also compliment my Blood Elf Mage quite well, with the Sin'dorei Mage being Fire/Arcane.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-09-13 at 08:01 PM.

  8. #248
    Gimme thick-body Bear Druid Night Elf forms, with massive sideburn options to boot. The current NE model is way too lanky for a proper Bear druid

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Their are some features that should be exclusive to each elven race.

    Blood Elves being the only ones with "natural-looking" green eyes.
    Night Elves having leaves in their hair
    Nightborne with the narrow eyes
    Void Elves with "void" features.

    These are just some examples of what shouldn't be shared, with others.

    Nightborne narrow eyes is a core Nightborne feature and should just be for them. It's what Nightborne fans and players have wanted for a long time. (And yes, their are people who do JUST play Nightborne and not night elves.)
    Yes, there are, and some should shared too. Afterall, my main motivation for playing Nightborne is that htey are night elven, I'm playing a modified night elven people in the fantasy of the kaldorei empire. If they don't resemble that at all, well, they're less appealing.

    Fortunately, the culture, setting are spot on, and the models, well, these nnew improvements do really make me connect to the night elves in there.. The faces, the skin tones, the hair colours, .

    I think the balance is nice atm, though I'd add the body sizes etc. Body sizes would likely come to all races if they ever do. The night elf thin is 100% the Nightborne model, and the Nightborne "medium" is the night elf model. @Triceron , the large would be this

    Last edited by Mace; 2021-09-14 at 09:00 PM.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Yes, there are, and some should shared too. Afterall, my main motivation for playing Nightborne is that htey are night elven, I'm playing a modified night elven people in the fantasy of the kaldorei empire. If they don't resemble that at all, well, they're less appealing.

    Fortunately, the culture, setting are spot on, and the models, well, these nnew improvements do really make me connect to the night elves in there.. The faces, the skin tones, the hair colours, .

    I think the balance is nice atm, though I'd add the body sizes etc. Body sizes would likely come to all races if they ever do. The night elf thin is 100% the Nightborne model, and the Nightborne "medium" is the night elf model. @Triceron , the large would be this
    Nightborne and narrow eyes are the food and drink and a staple piece to the Nightborne Elves. Not any other Elf in WoW.

    Not everything that Nightborne get must be shared with Night Elves...otherwise, Nightborne are the ones who suffer losing their identity. It's now important to showcase the Nightborne as their own race. Not some continuous poor-man's night elf.

  11. #251
    Body types is a difficult thing to tackle though.

    I feel like if and when they choose to tackle body types, they end up making entirely separate races for them. Look at how Kul Tiran could have easily been body options for Humans, but instead we have Kul Tiran as their own 'Race'. I feel like if we get anything this specific for Night Elves, they'd end up making it a "Feral Elf" class out of it rather than a customization option. Even with the Dwarves, the Wildhammers got no new body type even though they're supposed to be taller and leaner than the other Tribes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Nightborne and narrow eyes are the food and drink and a staple piece to the Nightborne Elves. Not any other Elf in WoW.

    Not everything that Nightborne get must be shared with Night Elves...otherwise, Nightborne are the ones who suffer losing their identity. It's now important to showcase the Nightborne as their own race. Not some continuous poor-man's night elf.
    The eyes is debatble really, night elves had narrow eyes in the original model and in the media art if you recall. Those eyes were widened in the 6.0 update, and we didn't like it - I don't recall you were posting around then. Currently, it's just that Nightborne fans, especially ones who have only started paying attention to this night elven race after the Nightborne came on the scene, only notice the NPC models in Suramar, they don't recall the night elves' issue because they never cared.

    Night elves also got an eye narrowing alteration last expansion, but it wasn't given as an option, it was just done. Presumably they went a middle ground. If they had done optional like nightborne, you'd have seen much narrower eyes. Some people love the big round eyes, some hated them, night elf females got the biggest complaints.

    And you are correct, not everything that Nightborne get must be shared by night elves, nor should it, and vice versa. It's nice for a sub race to retain distinctive elements. But it is also how you look at it. if you gave night elves Nightborne ears, that would be the major distinctiveness lost.. so you don't. the ears, and the eyes can serve as sufficient. The skin tone range is different enough, but really it's

    1. ears
    2. Jewellery
    3. unique tattoos

    the other big things i body size, but presumably we all wnat body sliders so that won't count once that happens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Body types is a difficult thing to tackle though.

    I feel like if and when they choose to tackle body types, they end up making entirely separate races for them. Look at how Kul Tiran could have easily been body options for Humans, but instead we have Kul Tiran as their own 'Race'. I feel like if we get anything this specific for Night Elves, they'd end up making it a "Feral Elf" class out of it rather than a customization option. Even with the Dwarves, the Wildhammers got no new body type even though they're supposed to be taller and leaner than the other Tribes.
    Saying that, Kul'tirans could still become the large body type for humans. Humans already have 3 body types ready to go. Kul'trian, Human & straightened forsaken = large, middle, thin. Night elves have two: Night elf and Nightborne = medium and thin

    It's not being a separate like Kul'tirans I don't think is the major issue. afterall Nightborne are the thin body type for night elves and didn't require a separate design. It is harder to bulk than thin but it's a gear issue that is delaying this implementation mostly I think. Do you know why thin humans are bent over? because introducing them like that would have made gearing much easier as they'd just use the forsaken gears. But now forsaken have straight options, it's good news for them right?

    Nightborne were challenging because ALL the pieces had to be re-sized for the different body size. All.. thi si also the problem with playable Amani/Drakkari trolls and the size changes. The gear changes.
    Last edited by Mace; 2021-09-14 at 09:56 PM.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    It's not being a separate like Kul'tirans I don't think is the major isuse. afterall Nightborne are the thin body type for night elves and didn't require a separate design.

    It is harder to bulk than thin. It's a gear issue. Do you know why thin humans are bent over? because introducing them like that owuld have made gearing much easier as they'd just use the forskaen gears.

    Nightborne were challenging because ALL the pieces had to be re-sized for the different body size. All.. thi si also the problem with playable Amani/Drakkari torlls and the size changes. The gear chagne#
    I feel like could use the Orc body base for Burly Night Elves if that were the case; possibly the Upright Orc body. Orc female base could fit for larger frame Night Elf females too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    The eyes is debatble really, night elves had narrow eyes in the orignal modle and in the media art if you recall. Those eyes were widened, it's just that Nightborne fans, especially ones who have only started paying attention to this night elven raec, only notice the NPC odels, they don't recall the night elves because they never cared.

    Night elves also got an eye narrowing alteration, but it wasn't given as an option, it was just done. Presumably they went a middle ground. If they had done optional like nightborne, you'd haev seen much narrower eyes.

    AAnd you are correct, not everything that nightborne get must be shared by night elves, and vice versa. It's nice for a sub race to retain distinctive elements. But it is also how you look at it. if you gave night elves nightborne ears, that would be the major distinctiveness lost.. so you don't. the ears, and the eyes can serve as sufficient. The skin tone range is different enough, but really it's

    1. ears
    2. Jewellery
    3. unique tattoos

    the other big things i body size, but presumably we all wnat body sliders so that won't count once that happens.
    I can't see any significant "eye" narrowing on my night elves. Still fairly wide-eyed, whilst the Nightborne will finally get their narrow eyes. Something just for them, not even shared with Blood Elves or Void Elves.

    I'm done with Nightborne being the poor-man's Night Elf. It's high time they got some attention and were made in their own thing...share a hairstyle or two with the Night Elves, but everything else...like the jewelry and stuff - that is for Nightborne Elves only.

    the golden and purple jewelry options work well to symbolise both a "Highborne-arrogance" aura, but also the golden portions reflect the Blood Elves' golden jewelry, in terms of being an outlandish colour...maybe a reflection on both races' Highborne heritage.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I can't see any significant "eye" narrowing on my night elves. Still fairly wide-eyed, whilst the Nightborne will finally get their narrow eyes. Something just for them, not even shared with Blood Elves or Void Elves.

    I'm done with Nightborne being the poor-man's Night Elf. It's high time they got some attention and were made in their own thing...share a hairstyle or two with the Night Elves, but everything else...like the jewelry and stuff - that is for Nightborne Elves only.

    the golden and purple jewelry options work well to symbolise both a "Highborne-arrogance" aura, but also the golden portions reflect the Blood Elves' golden jewelry, in terms of being an outlandish colour...maybe a reflection on both races' Highborne heritage.
    They definitely shouldn't be the poor man's night elf, this update should fix that. Night elves have notoriously lost out in the customisation options and the re-models.. it's quite pleasant to see that both night elven races actually got the most impactful number of new options. Nightborne are much better where they are now, they are attractive alternatives to night elves and no horde playing a night elf as nightborne shoudl feel they have less diversity or options and are a worse of model..especially the males.

    Still i woudl like more options for both night elves and nightborne.

    1. Nightborne - others have mentioned glowing arms and conjured armor bits
    2. Night elves others have mentioned the star tattoo and effects on hair too like the balance druid astral form and tyrande's night warrior maxed version + Elune avatar model - are good examples
    3. I'd add the body sizes and the night elf ear options for nightborne
    4. Body size option and a highborne range for nighte lves which replaces leaves and bushy hair with jewellery and more nightborne cuts.

  16. #256
    @Mace, i think the ears were changed to make the nighbtborne look more sinister/evil.. they make them look waspish. I like them least of the nightborne features.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I feel like could use the Orc body base for Burly Night Elves if that were the case; possibly the Upright Orc body. Orc female base could fit for larger frame Night Elf females too.
    That's not a bad idea, it could work.

    They need to fix the night elf male though, not sure why they haven't when they did it with the Zandalari male that also uses the night elf male body. But corrects the neck arch issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    @Mace, i think the ears were changed to make the nighbtborne look more sinister/evil.. they make them look waspish. I like them least of the nightborne features.
    I think it was a bad idea to swap the females' night elven ears to the male nightborne ears.. but i guess they wanted uniformity. It is uglier than the night elf one. But you may be right, they however haven't shared the reasoning for the change.

    Perhaps it does make them appear more sinister. Their skin tones are darker than the night elf ones, .. well mostly.

  18. #258
    Bad news purples

    There's a bug on the PTR which forbids Rogues from transmogging the new Nightborne sword/glaive.

  19. #259
    For a species so agile, fast and stealthy and despite their experience and association with the night I find it disappointing that there is so little exploration of Night Elves rogues, assassins and spies.

    They should have their own intelligence organisation with very skilled and dangerous rogues able of silently spying, infiltrating and assassinating in most places with ease and having possibly at least one special power related to the night or directly to the moon that makes them even stealthier or stronger or both during full moons like the moonshadow elves from the Dragon Prince.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    For a species so agile, fast and stealthy and despite their experience and association with the night I find it disappointing that there is so little exploration of Night Elves rogues, assassins and spies.

    They should have their own intelligence organisation with very skilled and dangerous rogues able of silently spying, infiltrating and assassinating in most places with ease and having possibly at least one special power related to the night or directly to the moon that makes them even stealthier or stronger or both during full moons like the moonshadow elves from the Dragon Prince.
    Wow depiction of night elves pretty much focuses on their druidic part, while priestesses and sentinels (which would include rogues, assassins and the likes) are kind of underdeveloped.

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