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  1. #341
    @Mace. Very intriguing but it sounds correct. Didn’t even think of it. We were so focused on being pantheon of a cosmic power we missed it entirely.

    It makes no sense for Elune to be a true goddess and only be devoted to nature magic, after having shown no sign of wielding nature power.

    So Ofc, pantheon of Life must be a pantheon of the living realm, not of life magic.

    And good point, the death pantheon don’t wield death magic any more or less than other types.

    And it is weird that we can learn to use multiple cosmic powers but gods can only use one.

    Good points.

  2. #342
    There should have been in WOD at least some quests with Night Elves taking an interest into the Primals, and in particular the Botanis, and them trying to find a way to tame their aggressivity and hostility toward non-plants as well as taking inspiration from several of their techniques such as creating special bassins to transfer a Genesaur's conscience to another body, and of their use of poisonnous or mind control spores.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    There should have been in WOD at least some quests with Night Elves taking an interest into the Primals, and in particular the Botanis, and them trying to find a way to tame their aggressivity and hostility toward non-plants as well as taking inspiration from several of their techniques such as creating special bassins to transfer a Genesaur's conscience to another body, and of their use of poisonnous or mind control spores.
    You bring up an area I've often wondered on..but I think one that potentially reminds people that night elves are not quite just always what the fandom sites peg them as.

    I think the Primals and Botanis interest is a druid thing, not a night elf nation or race thing strictly speaking. I am weary of reinforcing an already warped concept that druids and night elves are the same thing.. which takes away from the main focus of the night elves which should be the stars, Elune, with both arcane and nature being balanced halves. Night elves are much more than just nature, at least were originally meant to be, and really were designed to be dark elves (first) mixed with forest elves - to bring the best of both the traditional dark elf (the magic advanced users and the forest elves. They weren't the nature counterpart to the high elves - like most early wowers thought. But a different nation/ race of elves, their own thing - with their own mastery of arcane magic and nature magic, with their unique history that led the m to the long vigil and out of it in WC3.


    But wow players pidgeoned them in the forest elf category when the blood elves became playable because those palyers really wanted only their elves to be good at magic. Thankfully not all of us listened to them, and we followed the lore. But I understand what you are saying.

    While the Long vigil necessitated an arcane spell free existence, we must not forget arcane magic and energy was always present and now is wielded once more, in a with events that should have now removed any stigmas.

    Saying that, the druids exploring the Botanis should happen, I think the way the Botani act is very different from the harmony of nature that Azeroth promotes.. where man or rather elf and nature walk in tandem, with magic and nature together - This is the night elf way.. not nature dominating aggressively..

    I would say the druids and mages would both oppose the Botani aggressively, or at least seek to temper them and teach them co-existence with non-plant life.
    Last edited by Mace; 2021-10-21 at 08:58 PM.

  4. #344
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Now seems to be a good time to remind folks that Botani escaped into the Barrens in BFA.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Now seems to be a good time to remind folks that Botani escaped into the Barrens in BFA.
    They did? Don't remember doing a quest about that in BFA

  6. #346
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    They did? Don't remember doing a quest about that in BFA
    Was part of the end cinematic for rescuing the Mag'har Hordeside, and was just never mentioned Alliance-side.
    Last edited by Lilithvia; 2021-10-25 at 02:02 PM.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Was part of the end cinematic for rescuing the Mag'har Hordeside, and was just never mentioned Alliance-side.
    10.0 Revamp barrens, massive overgrowth, Botani invasion.. threatening Kalimdor - orcs fighting, druids fighting, everyone losing.. hehe - might be an avenue to get blood elf druids that is unrelated to night elf druidism.

    Although I have mixed feelings, I mean NElf druidism is elven druidism, technically, shouldn't the elves have a similar vein of druidism since it's in their history, but Trolls, tauren and Kul'tirans and worgen have something different, with elements that can connect to elven druidism since it's been the most advanced?

    Could be interesting.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Was part of the end cinematic for rescuing the Mag'har Hordeside, and was just never mentioned Alliance-side.
    Ah.. I remember now, thanks

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    10.0 Revamp barrens, massive overgrowth, Botani invasion.. threatening Kalimdor - orcs fighting, druids fighting, everyone losing.. hehe - might be an avenue to get blood elf druids that is unrelated to night elf druidism.

    Although I have mixed feelings, I mean NElf druidism is elven druidism, technically, shouldn't the elves have a similar vein of druidism since it's in their history, but Trolls, tauren and Kul'tirans and worgen have something different, with elements that can connect to elven druidism since it's been the most advanced?

    Could be interesting.
    Nightborne should definitely be night elf based druidism, their story is a kaldorei one, they are saved by the Arcan'dor, they have Farodin, a Valewalker order druid who basically saved them thanks to the work of hte order he completed... they als have Val'sharah druids and priests, and they are a good opportunity to explore the balance druid lore side of the druids extensively which is the heart of druidism, even though sof ar we've seen a lot more of resto tree huggers and feral cat/bears than we have balance druids.

    Void elves should also connect to night elves, I think they should come in when the druids start looking for alternative solutions tot he nightmare problem, and a collaboration wit h void elf scholars and lovers of nature examining the effect of the void on nature, how to both reverse it or utilise it work with the night elves and birth a void based version of druidism focused on the emerald dream and the nightmare combining void and nature and arcane to do their stuff- not to mention cool void animal forms and tree forms.

    Blood elves should also connect via night elf druidism 100%, the high elves come from the long vigil night elves, not the pre-sundering ones like the Shen'dralar and Nightborne.. they would have a big influence although because of the history, they'd pretend it doesn't exist and carry out their own research, however Tauren druidism coupled with too much work with wild gods, in saving the world has greatly advanced their botanists, still they try to insist much of their advancement is their own work, which is true, but they do connect with the night elven majority Cenarion circle and take their studies to the next level, but they do this keeping their Botany institution as it's own thing and only affiliated with the Cenarion circle in "collaborative efforts"

    Night elf druidism is based on love of nature primarily - which reflects the nature love all elves have.. The blood elves didn't only gain arcane love form night elves s(some people forget that the arcane love comes from their night elven ancestry), but there was always nature love, this is why they settled in forest green Quel'thalas, and Eversong woods is a huge part of the charm of their home.

    If you ever do Botani based druidism, it should something Ogres, Orcs, led by Cenarion Trolls and Tauren do while exploring the Botani to fight it. IT would be nice to see Tauren druidism develop a unique less elf related development to their druidism, while Troll druidism continues along it's already unique Gonk loa path, and Kul'tiran along it's unique Drust path. Worgen druidism can be a fusion of Harvest witch type stuff and night elven druidism, whiles the elven ones primarily are based on that.

    Orcs, can gain druidic access through the Tauren study if they want to open it to orcs and ogres. The Draenei could potential get to druidism that way rather than the elf way.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Blood elves should also connect via night elf druidism 100%, the high elves come from the long vigil night elves, not the pre-sundering ones like the Shen'dralar and Nightborne.. they would have a big influence although because of the history, they'd pretend it doesn't exist and carry out their own research, however Tauren druidism coupled with too much work with wild gods, in saving the world has greatly advanced their botanists, still they try to insist much of their advancement is their own work, which is true, but they do connect with the night elven majority Cenarion circle and take their studies to the next level, but they do this keeping their Botany institution as it's own thing and only affiliated with the Cenarion circle in "collaborative efforts"

    Night elf druidism is based on love of nature primarily - which reflects the nature love all elves have.. The blood elves didn't only gain arcane love form night elves s(some people forget that the arcane love comes from their night elven ancestry), but there was always nature love, this is why they settled in forest green Quel'thalas, and Eversong woods is a huge part of the charm of their home.
    Blood Elves do not have a strong love for nature. What their ancestors did to the region that would become Quel'Thalas is entirely unnatural since the zone is timelocked into an eternal spring.

    The Elves were drawn to that region due to the high potency of magical leylines that scattered throughout the land. That is what caused them to set up Silvermoon and the Sunwell, not because of how beautiful the land was. They left their night elf cousins behind because they were the ones who obsessed over that.
    The High Elves were about something new and what they crafted was beautiful and their forest is the most beautiful in Azeroth, but it's not natural and it hasn't been since the first highborne arrived.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-10-25 at 07:00 PM.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Blood Elves do not have a strong love for nature. What their ancestors did to the region that would become Quel'Thalas is entirely unnatural since the zone is timelocked into an eternal spring.

    The Elves were drawn to that region due to the high potency of magical leylines that scattered throughout the land. That is what caused them to set up Silvermoon and the Sunwell, not because of how beautiful the land was. They left their night elf cousins behind because they were the ones who obsessed over that.
    The High Elves were about something new and what they crafted was beautiful and their forest is the most beautiful in Azeroth, but it's not natural and it hasn't been since the first highborne arrived.
    Night elf nature love is unlike any other

    But high elves love nature a lot more than humans do, and most other races.

    Races like trolls and tauren, I wouldn't say love nature.. they respect nature as a part of life that sustains them so they must work with it and in it.. they don't strike me as loving forests and plants particularly as a racial collective... Elves do , high elves, night elves, strike me as people who love forests, even though they have cities and other magics, they love nature.

    That's my view anyway. I think blood elves still care for nature. They want to heal the deadscar ting a lot, and they love the forests of Quel'thalas, they cared about the treants and bothered about the weather and wholeness of nature which they used the arcane to enhance.. exactly like the night elves.. they just weren't as dedicated to it as the night elves. but the love is still much more than humans and most other races.. It's just not as big as the night elves.

    I refuse to believe night elves have the monopoly on nature just as much as @ravenmoon refuses to believe we have the monopoly on arcane. But they have more proof for arcane than we do have direct mention of nature.. but we have it implied .
    Last edited by Beloren; 2021-10-25 at 09:05 PM.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Night elf nature love is unlike any other

    But high elves love nature a lot more than humans do, and most other races.

    Races like trolls and tauren, I wouldn't say love nature.. they respect nature as a part of life that sustains them so they must work with it and in it.. they don't strike me as loving forests and plants particularly as a racial collective... Elves do , high elves, night elves, strike me as people who love forests, even though they have cities and other magics, they love nature.

    That's my view anyway. I think blood elves still care for nature. They want to heal the deadscar ting a lot, and they love the forests of Quel'thalas, they cared about the treants and bothered about the weather and wholeness of nature which they used the arcane to enhance.. exactly like the night elves.. they just weren't as dedicated to it as the night elves. but the love is still much more than humans and most other races.. It's just not as big as the night elves.

    I refuse to believe night elves have the monopoly on nature just as much as @ravenmoon refuses to believe we have the monopoly on arcane. But they have more proof for arcane than we do have direct mention of nature.. but we have it implied .
    That's as maybe, but they didn't settle in Quel'Thalas because of their love for nature.

    They settled their because the majority of the High Elves were Mages and they sensed the ley-line energies of the region.

    Quel'Thalas possibly looked like it does now, but the Thalassian "love" for nature, stems from using arcane magic for an unnatural purpose. Timelocking the entire zone into an eternal spring.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    That's as maybe, but they didn't settle in Quel'Thalas because of their love for nature.

    They settled their because the majority of the High Elves were Mages and they sensed the ley-line energies of the region.

    Quel'Thalas possibly looked like it does now, but the Thalassian "love" for nature, stems from using arcane magic for an unnatural purpose. Timelocking the entire zone into an eternal spring.
    Night elves have always built stuff and moved close to leylines, .. and they came from a huge arcane source..this is where they built their civilizations. It was rich in both magic and nature. Never forget this is the core heart of the race, and it's unique identifyer --which is why they are Night elves and neither dark elves nor forest elves. May blizzard never forget this uniqueness, whic is greatly enhanced by their star focus - it gives them a novel dimension other fantasy elves they were derived from as a mixture of, do not have.

    Even in the long vigil, they did all the moonwells at leylines, when the highborne that got exiled went to Quelt'htalas, the original material said they moved their because it reminded them most of home... and we are told it was a massive forested area.. no mention of leylines was given, but it's quite possible that was another incentive, if I recall, Silvermoon is built on ley lines as is the site chosen for the Sunwell. However Quelt'halas is mentioned as being good for the new home because it reminds them of home i.e. Kalimdor. This would imply terrain and forestry not city scape (as the land wasn't built yet...

    When the night elves go to spy on the blood elves in TBC, they settle on all the ley line junctions.

    So I am not sure wht you are trying to say there.

    Elves have always been magic and nature. it's part of their core fantasy. The expression in high elves and night elves is different. Night elves have a much broader range because they are the original elves and their culture and civilization is much older, so it's bound to have done more development and gone much further in areas the high elves.. i mean, the night elves were at their pinnacle 3,000 years before the high elves came to be, by the time the Sunstrider Highborne (who become high elves) were exiled, druidism already had 3,000 years advancement, and the level of arcane and magical knowledge of the pre-sundering era was almost entirely lost to all of them - both Darnassians and Sunstrider Highborne - but it wasn't lost t o the Shen'dralar nor the Night elves in Suramar who were getting juiced up from the nightwell, both these night elves existed in the only surviving cities they both hid well from their surviving kin who were suppressing arcane magic spell casting (though the Suramar night elves had no idea - they believed they were the only ones who survived) but the Shen'dralar knew and hid well.


    My point is, nature was never discarded or unloved by the high elves. The exile did not make them hate nature (only their kin who exiled them - leadin gthem to change a lot about themselves - not their core innate natural love of magic and nature, that's in built).. Quel'thalas reminded them of home, felt most like home as night elves (which they still are when they are arrive, even though transitioning would have started), the high elf race and it's changed identity would emerge during their development and settlement of that land, but initially it's night elf based.

    The city is called Silvermoon - that's a very night elven name.


    Look, you keep revelling in the high elven Highborne heritage, but love to ignore that this is night elven. With night elves comes arcane aptitude and desire as well as nature. The two and separate. The highborne closest to Azshara may have been contemptuous of the old ways or cast aside the reverence for nature, but they cast aside reverence for everything sacred, including arcane magic (which is why they were reckless in their use, rather than respectful), Elune etc. Not all highborne did, and while the purer deep reverence for nature you see in night elven druidism was absent in the end period of the pre-sundering era (not the earlier periods - you ust not forget), love for nature is still there.

    You can love nature without reverencing it much or deeply.. please think about things before you draw conclusions. I suspect you are concluding high elves don't love nature because they don't reverence it like night elven druids are shown to.. that's very silly . All it means is high elves don't fawn over nature like the Dranassian culture druids do.. it doesn't mean they don't love nature, gardens, flowers and forests. Also the degree society wide is different. All the Darnassian groups had to live in nature, look at the history.. it shows you that, and if natur elove was a core part of the race, and irreverence and callous attitude was part of their shameful past..can you understand how deep love and reverence for nature would have been rebuilt around them...but on the high elves who embrace arcane magic (also a love of the night elves), the love won't be exclusively based on nature, but would bee seen to be spread in areas like arcane magic, while amongst the night elves in north kalimdor, it would be on Elune ( society night elves) and nature (druidic night elves), and . Just because arcane love is there, doesn't mean nature love isn't. Nor doe sit mean no one revered nature amongst the high elves, just the proportion of people as a society wide focus and the depth of the focus would be different.. but there is a reason it is so distinct in the night elves in north kalimdor... because arcane magic practice is banned.

    People wrongly assume night elves don't love arcane magic, they do, or rather you can understand there would be mixed feelings.. naturally, they would love arcane magic, it's in their DNA, but because of the events of the sundering and years having to put off practice and building a stigma to it, there would be mixed feelings.. clarifications brought about the legion in 7.0 would fight that as well as the cure to addiction should fix that impression.. but the love is there, and they've had the magical power always via the Well of Eternity and the moonwells they create from that arcane source. Never forget that. Even if it isn't always mentioned, it's there, you can't forget what it means, nor what they tell you about the race.

    To think the high elves don't have it when they show you forested Quel'thalas, Farstriders, they tell you they used magic to create perfect weather and i.e. optimal weather, and optimal health to nature.. even after their fall in TBC, they are using treant tenders to care for the land.

    The emphasis is just not as exaggerated on nature philosophy with them as it is with the night elves.. but it is there, .

    - - - Updated - - -

    AND TANARIA I WANT YOU TO READ WHAT I'VE WROTE - DON'T SKIM - PROVE IT BY RESPONDING TO EACH PARAGRAGH - and by response, I'm not asking you to attack it for errors or mistakes, but to comment, I'm sure you know it is correct, but you may have comments, insights, counter emphasis to share - rather than just looking at what you don't like or agree with or want to advertise.. discuss, don't compaign
    Last edited by Mace; 2021-10-29 at 08:38 AM.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    SNIP[/U][/SIZE][/B]
    All of this is long version of what I was saying.

    High Elves loved their new home, and they wanted to keep it in that exact way. What they did was unnatural and not part of nature's life cycle.

    And the Farstriders use the land to spy on their enemies. It's how Sylvanas was able to shoot down Amani Trolls, who were chasing Alleria and Vereesa. Again, Sylvanas never had a love for nature - she just used it as a means to kill those who were attacking her sisters.
    Quel'Thalas is a timelocked zone, locked until a time, where the Sin'dorei might lift the enchantment (unlikely), in an eternal spring. As lovely as it looks, as many have said that Eversong Woods and Silvermoon are the most beautiful places in Azeroth, it's still unnatural.

    Farstriders know a little bit of natural magic, but it isn't groundbreaking. We've only seen the Sunfury Botanists, who were all killed, take on Druid-like abilities, but again - that was looking at the plants of the Botanica and wielding a combination of Nature, Arcane, Fel and Void magics.

    And Quel'Thalas is created on the backbone of the kaldorei empire, but it is kaldorei no longer. The floating spires and large schools like the Falthrien Academy - they came with Quel'Thalas. Zin-Azshari, Suramar, Nar'thalas - they never had sanctums like the Quel'Thalas Academies - they were born with the changes that Dath'Remar and the Quel'dorei, wanted.

    The summary is this:
    Unlike the Night Elves, everything the High Elves did, related back to the Arcane. Thas'alah was one tree that was later connected to the arcane ley-lines of Quel'Thalas. Thas'dorah - created from a branch of Thas'alah was later bathed in the arcane Sunwell, where the rumors go that when Talanas and his descendants, Lireesa and Alleria, used the bow - arcane arrows fired after the Windrunners fired regular arrows. Ban'dinoriel, an arcane shield, helped generated by the arcane Sunwell, was connected to Thas'alah to help protect the land from the Legion.

    Again - in my view, as much as I love the Sin'dorei - this angle for nature is very unnatural and not the same as how we see the night elves use nature and their connections to Druidism. It's not a "love" for nature. It's a "well this tree can help us - let's connect it to the arcane Sunwell and the arcane leylines." Thas'alah was not like Teldrassil or Nordrassil. (The Blue Dragons never giving a blessing for either trees.)
    Just like the Sin'dorei - their Quel'dorei ancestors connected everything back to their Arcane Mastery. Which is fine, because the Arcane is the birthright for all Thalassians. It doesn't shock me that only one tree was used but it wasn't used for a natural purpose.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-10-29 at 09:05 AM.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    All of this is long version of what I was saying.

    High Elves loved their new home, and they wanted to keep it in that exact way. What they did was unnatural and not part of nature's life cycle.

    And the Farstriders use the land to spy on their enemies. It's how Sylvanas was able to shoot down Amani Trolls, who were chasing Alleria and Vereesa. Again, Sylvanas never had a love for nature - she just used it as a means to kill those who were attacking her sisters.
    Quel'Thalas is a timelocked zone, locked until a time, where the Sin'dorei might lift the enchantment (unlikely), in an eternal spring. As lovely as it looks, as many have said that Eversong Woods and Silvermoon are the most beautiful places in Azeroth, it's still unnatural.

    Farstriders know a little bit of natural magic, but it isn't groundbreaking. We've only seen the Sunfury Botanists, who were all killed, take on Druid-like abilities, but again - that was looking at the plants of the Botanica and wielding a combination of Nature, Arcane, Fel and Void magics.

    And Quel'Thalas is created on the backbone of the kaldorei empire, but it is kaldorei no longer. The floating spires and large schools like the Falthrien Academy - they came with Quel'Thalas. Zin-Azshari, Suramar, Nar'thalas - they never had sanctums like the Quel'Thalas Academies - they were born with the changes that Dath'Remar and the Quel'dorei, wanted.

    The summary is this:
    Unlike the Night Elves, everything the High Elves did, related back to the Arcane. Thas'alah was one tree that was later connected to the arcane ley-lines of Quel'Thalas. Thas'dorah - created from a branch of Thas'alah was later bathed in the arcane Sunwell, where the rumors go that when Talanas and his descendants, Lireesa and Alleria, used the bow - arcane arrows fired after the Windrunners fired regular arrows. Ban'dinoriel, an arcane shield, helped generated by the arcane Sunwell, was connected to Thas'alah to help protect the land from the Legion.

    Again - in my view, as much as I love the Sin'dorei - this angle for nature is very unnatural and not the same as how we see the night elves use nature and their connections to Druidism. It's not a "love" for nature. It's a "well this tree can help us - let's connect it to the arcane Sunwell and the arcane leylines." Thas'alah was not like Teldrassil or Nordrassil. (The Blue Dragons never giving a blessing for either trees.)
    Just like the Sin'dorei - their Quel'dorei ancestors connected everything back to their Arcane Mastery. Which is fine, because the Arcane is the birthright for all Thalassians. It doesn't shock me that only one tree was used but it wasn't used for a natural purpose.
    I think we shouldn't ignore high elves loving nature. I like that they do, and i like that iit's not as extreme as the night elves... high elves are supposed to come from night elves, their are some core things that won't change. But it makes sense night elves being older m eans things are more developed/extreme with them.. it makes high elves seem better imo.

    Magical love and nature love.. .the expression and how they are weighted would and should be different, because it's supposed to be a different culture/nation/race, but it will have a strong core intact
    @Mace, what do you think?

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I think we shouldn't ignore high elves loving nature. I like that they do, and i like that iit's not as extreme as the night elves... high elves are supposed to come from night elves, their are some core things that won't change. But it makes sense night elves being older m eans things are more developed/extreme with them.. it makes high elves seem better imo.

    Magical love and nature love.. .the expression and how they are weighted would and should be different, because it's supposed to be a different culture/nation/race, but it will have a strong core intact
    @Mace, what do you think?
    It's not as extreme as the night elves because their "love" for it is secondary, in terms of - they use nature as a secondary source to get what they want, which is totally fitting within the Highborne bloodline.

    Arcane comes first - even for the Farstriders as Thas'dorah still has the arcane powers of the Sunwell flowing through it.

    Like I say, their "love" comes with very unnatural methods, such as timelocking the region for over 7000 years, into an eternal spring.
    "Nature has to stay in the way that WE like it." That seems to be their philosophy and that's fine, because that is what makes them different to the kaldorei. Again, just because the kaldorei are the first elves doesn't mean that now, all elves link back to them. I think we start going down that route of "Elves are Alliance because nelfs were the first."

  16. #356
    @Tanaria

    Arcane coming first doesn’t mean nature isn’t loved.

    Arcane being loved most doesn’t mean nature isn’t loved.

    Society not focused most on loving nature doesn’t mean nature isn’t generally loved

    All elves are related. All elves are based on night elves from which they a a re minor variants. At best.

    Warcraft major races are humans, elves, orcs and trolls. We don’t say the variants because for this purpose they are not distinct enough.
    Last edited by Mace; 2021-10-29 at 03:14 PM.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    @Tanaria

    Arcane coming first doesn’t mean nature isn’t loved.

    Arrange being loved most doesn’t mean nature isn’t loved.

    All elves are related. All elves are based on night elves from which they a a re minor variants. At best.

    Warcraft major races are humans, elves, orcs and trolls. We don’t say the variants because for this purpose they are not distinct enough.
    Arcane forced the forest to remain as it is.
    It's simply not natural.

    High and Blood Elves simply don't go nuts for nature. They warp it to their needs.
    Druidism and anything "night elf nature loving" just isn't big for Thalassian Elves.

    Again, Nelfs being the first isn't relevant...especially when you look at the Night Elves and their status in comparison to the Blood Elves

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Arcane forced the forest to remain as it is.
    It's simply not natural.
    You mean spell casting.


    It’s not an evil thing they do. Have you ever lived in the tropics? It’s the same temperature all year round. The ings grow and die and are reborn.

    They use the arcane to enhance nature. Do you know who else does that? Druids and all night elf society in the pre sundering era.

    Or what do you think is happening with the Moonwells and the land? The difference is that during the long vigil they couldn’t cast a spell directly to enhance nature so did it a different way.

    Probably a better way too as the forest is asked rather than forced.

    But this is exactly what world tress also do, manipulating the dream and then Azeroth to force a change that doesn’t factor in the whole eco system.

    Please think about your lore and the race you are dealing with before using such examples

    High and Blood Elves simply don't go nuts for nature. They warp it to their needs.
    First statement is correct. I agree with. Second statement is an opinion the lore does not reflect for high elves. Even blood elves are shown to have a care for nature even though some aren’t being responsible.

    Are any night elves who love nature also abusing it sometimes? Well if you think casting spells to prolong and enhance nature via arcane energy or spells , then all night elves are guilty from that point of view (which is warped by elven standards) but if you mean actual abusing nature? Well I noticed druids of the fang did this, druids of the flame also did this, as did druids of the nightmare. And those were just the druids. Yet not every evil night elf abused nature either, but lots did.

    Trust me nature abuse is not exclusive to highbelves and just because some abuse nature doesn’t tom mean it isn’t loved by the race nor even necessarily Moran it isn’t loved by the abuser. Their sense of morality is just warped.

    Druidism and anything "night elf nature loving" just isn't big for Thalassian Elves.
    correction, isn’t as big one nearly true, but the words you use change the position making it untrue.

    You are trying to make it out as if it is not a thing. Whereas actually from what we know it just isn’t as big a thing amongst Thalassians as it is Darnassians, but it is still a thing amongst them.
    Once again you say something

    Again, Nelfs being the first isn't relevant...especially when you look at the Night Elves and their status in comparison to the Blood Elves
    It is relevant to the point I want to drive home to you. If you never forget this it will help re position you ur understanding in the areas you have strayed.

    It’s fine to give opinion, but don’t pass it as fact. We can argue what supports our views. This is more honest.

    You look too much at status and fail to observe everything else around. It’s like a person blinded by the techno wonders of an advanced hi tech city and the science focused society, utterly failing to notice there are other things too and science is not the only thing loved.

    For example nature is in a good state, their are trees and animals people love. Furthermore, these people are so smart, they can love and major in several things too.

    Like there must only be one thing loved rather than useveral with some people loving some things more than others.

    Wider picture. Vision. Wisdom. Use your eyes and ears.
    Last edited by Mace; 2021-10-29 at 04:35 PM.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    It is relevant to the point I want to drive home to you. If you never forget this it will help re position you ur understanding in the areas you have strayed.

    It’s fine to give opinion, but don’t pass it as fact. We can argue what supports our views. This is more honest.

    You look too much at status and fail to observe everything else around. It’s like a person blinded by the techno wonders of an advanced hi tech city and the science focused society, utterly failing to notice there are other things too and science is not the only thing loved.

    For example nature is in a good state, their are trees and animals people love. Furthermore, these people are so smart, they can love and major in several things too.

    Like there must only be one thing loved rather than useveral with some people loving some things more than others.

    Wider picture. Vision. Wisdom. Use your eyes and ears.
    It isn't relevant because this is about Druidism and nature-loving; of which Blood Elves just aren't involved with that story, because what they do isn't Druidism, nor is it nature-loving.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    You mean spell casting.


    It’s not an evil thing they do. Have you ever lived in the tropics? It’s the same temperature all year round. The ings grow and die and are reborn.

    They use the arcane to enhance nature. Do you know who else does that? Druids and all night elf society in the pre sundering era.

    Or what do you think is happening with the Moonwells and the land? The difference is that during the long vigil they couldn’t cast a spell directly to enhance nature so did it a different way.

    Probably a better way too as the forest is asked rather than forced.

    But this is exactly what world tress also do, manipulating the dream and then Azeroth to force a change that doesn’t factor in the whole eco system.

    Please think about your lore and the race you are dealing with before using such examples
    I know the lore for the race in question and I can tell you, the race I'm talking about isn't called "Night Elves."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    First statement is correct. I agree with. Second statement is an opinion the lore does not reflect for high elves. Even blood elves are shown to have a care for nature even though some aren’t being responsible.

    Are any night elves who love nature also abusing it sometimes? Well if you think casting spells to prolong and enhance nature via arcane energy or spells , then all night elves are guilty from that point of view (which is warped by elven standards) but if you mean actual abusing nature? Well I noticed druids of the fang did this, druids of the flame also did this, as did druids of the nightmare. And those were just the druids. Yet not every evil night elf abused nature either, but lots did.

    Trust me nature abuse is not exclusive to highbelves and just because some abuse nature doesn’t tom mean it isn’t loved by the race nor even necessarily Moran it isn’t loved by the abuser. Their sense of morality is just warped.
    .
    Never said it was only High Elves who abused nature, but what they did is simply not natural for nature and they did it for themselves and to give themselves and their arcane magical practices, an advantage.
    Also - the first of their Rangers and Farstriders were also still using the Arcane since Talanas' bow also shot magical arcane arrows, after it had been placed in the Sunwell.

    It's not natural and goes completely against what we see with the Night Elves and Tauren.

    And I've said what is the lore. I know you want to connect the Elves back to nelfs (because them being the first is so important for you - don't know why...I mean, do you want the elves bending the knee to night elves? I mean, what do you want Blood Elves to do?), but they are just so different now and Druidism of all things, is most definitely not the way to try and connect them together.

    Might work for night elves and nightborne, but Blood Elves...no. Even their arcane magical practice of choice (Blood and Fire Magics) differs from the night elves. The two races are night and day (pun intended.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    correction, isn’t as big one nearly true, but the words you use change the position making it untrue.

    You are trying to make it out as if it is not a thing. Whereas actually from what we know it just isn’t as big a thing amongst Thalassians as it is Darnassians, but it is still a thing amongst them.
    .
    Druidism isn't a Blood Elf thing and neither is nature loving, to this extend that blood elves take up druidism and go gah-gah over night elves.
    Thalassians aren't nelfs.

    Is their any point in Blood Elves taking up Druidism? No, probably not. Why? Because not even nature magic can undo the timelocking spell that has been over Quel'Thalas for 7000+ years.

    The spell might need to be lifted, but then would the forest wither and die, because of the unnatural spell that was placed upon by the Highborne?
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-10-29 at 05:58 PM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Now seems to be a good time to remind folks that Botani escaped into the Barrens in BFA.
    So thats why people mention the botani being a threat.

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