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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalaator View Post
    When will night elf hands and feet be updated. They are 2 polygon blobs.
    We keep asking blizzard... I would settle for the option to reduce your arm size and hand size. it won't affect longsleeeve tunics/robes, but gloves would have to be adjusted.

  2. #22
    @Mace, I think the night elven highborne might be better served as a group that genuinely seeks to pioneer the re-unification of the elves but from the kaldorei pricnipalled standpoint. Hence why they're allied with the Darnassians.

    I think they'd have been better served as identifiably a separate group from the Darnassians, like the Illidari and the Ebon blade, but allied to them - and it is clear it is an alliance, not a re-integration.

    So they seek to restore the confidence and proliferation of the arcane amongst the largest kaldorei community - i.e. the Darnassians, by restoring its confidence in magic and restoring the pride and integrity of the highborne class (no they shouldn't be choosing easy targets, they were the empire leaders and were "glorious" , the Queen's over reaching (which this Highborne group did not approve of, ruined it all). And as such sort of act like a go-between.

    I think the Nightborne would have been perfect as that Illidari/Ebon blade type group, with the Highborne working with them for htis elven unification but operating amongst the night elves while the other Nightborne working with the blood elves.

    Blizz could potentially have ended Suramar as a place where both Highborne and Nightborne now live and work together, with the Highborne working amongst the alliance and the Nightborne amongst the horde. Keeping the Thalassians separate in Eastern Kingdom and the Darnassians separate in Kalimdor.


    This way there is a separation, just like when you think Illidari, you clearly don't think Darnassian druids/priests, nor when you roll a Night elf DK do you think Tyrande/Malfurion, you think Ebon Blade, it fits far better if you were led the same way to think about the Highborne.


    Proposal in a Nutshell
    I would propose. The Highborne have been working closely with the broken isle elves, who are quite friendly with the Nightborne - despite the nightborne being on the horde - this is possible because the broken isle native night elves are not alliance elves and haven't been involved with the faction politics at all, not to mention they play a key role in the salvation of the Nightborne through the Arcan'dor and the resistance in Shal'aran before the elven armies showed up, and they were counted in the Nightborne group despite being kaldorei.

    The elves of the broken isle are the ones that seek elven integration and restoration of the fortunes of the elves. This goes well beyond vanity ofc, because the elves are on the verge of extinction, the younger races keep making rash, unwise decisions, and they easily feel that the elves as one really did things the best way. They seek to lead by example, and possibly influence the factions.

    Part of their goals are to reconcile the Darnassians and Thalassians, but also to chaperone /watch and advise with wisdom horde and alliance.

    I just think this plan allows the Nightborne and Highborne to have joint role without involving all the night elves and blood elves and instantly resolving their issues, they could be a new power duo repreesnting the ancient kaldorei as joint effort group working to influence and uinte their brethren, winning some support amongst both Darnassians and Thalassians but obviously resistance as well, and that storyline can play out over time.


    Meanwhile practically, this could come with some extra highborne specific cusotmisations for Night elves, and some additional night elf influenced options for Nightborne.

    Things like the star tattoos and hair etc for night elves, and some more hairstyles, colours and arcane effects for nightborne.




    If they did this, and you clicked Highborne, maybe you would start with a different narrative or an NPC saying something like you've just come from the group that went to the Broken Isles, and you are back to help the Darnassiasns and restore the trust of the kaldorei in their ancient heritage.

    Would that work for you guys?
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-09-05 at 08:23 PM.

  3. #23
    I'm down for something like that.
    It avoids the whole "Nightborne go Alliance" thing which is just ridiculous as Blizzard will never just transfer an existing race from one faction to the other, despite how Alliance-friendly the Bloodhoof Tauren softies are.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I'm down for something like that.
    It avoids the whole "Nightborne go Alliance" thing which is just ridiculous as Blizzard will never just transfer an existing race from one faction to the other, despite how Alliance-friendly the Bloodhoof Tauren softies are.
    Exactly, and it also avoids trying to force change the wilder forest and sentinel image of the classic night elves, whiles given an option for the more city based mage and priest versions - maintaining a distinguishable line, just like the Illidari and Ebon blade have.

    And yes above all, it doesn't try to force Nightborne onto the alliance or give Suramar to the alliance or share or anything like that, but makes a door to have the arcane night elves play a part in that side of their race's heritage as co-operating with the Nightborne group because of who they are, not ringing all the night elves to Suramar or the broken isles in some take over sequence or anything like that.

    I also think it flows a lot more naturally, Nightborne/Highborne types are going to be more concerned with restoring what was lost, for noble purposes (not conquest like the Zandalari initially wanted), the druidic Darnassians and the priesthood leadership are more on the "let the past rest and possibly never go back" although it's clearly not all, but that was the overiding census for most of their 10k wilderness years, it will take a while for that to shift.

    This is more realistic, it gives them purpose to play both in Darnassian and Thalassian affairs while establishing a clear directive regarding the horde and alliance. It can also be an incredible source of good narrative, intrigue, and can be state that drags on for years, so you have one elven group trying to get everyone to get along, one elven group that really just wants to shut everyone out and protect it's little corner, and another elven group that is keen on ensuring it will never be nearly destroyed and would remain strong enough to combat its threat, even if it means wiping out its enemies.


    I think part of the big arguments we have had on this topic is a failure to accept that the Nightborne really are all the things the Highborne are, and accepting that these nightborne are on the horde PERIOD. It's not the Nightborne that should be force fed into the alliance or shoe horned, but rather it's the Highborne that should be linking up with them, because they're the much smaller group, and we know they're not that super tight with the other Darnassians either, it gives them the degree of flexibility to be like a go-between allowing for great stories and those NElf fans who love that side can play out in a story that has them close with the Nightborne without necessarily siding with the horde because it's a join co-operation whether secret or known.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    someone's making a WC2 Reforged (https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...forged.325570/) (https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/a...cond-war.9994/)

    and so I thought of that chapter in WC2 where Ner'zhul recovers the Scepter of Kil'jaeden

    Although the inhabitants of this place died long ago, their bodies have been torn from earthen graves by the vile magics of the Daemons and made to stalk this region for all eternity.
    regarding this, is it right that I convince them to change the "human forces" in this chapter into Moonguard Night Elves or Farondic Court Ghosts?

    chapter map for reference:



    bigger: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wo...idth-down/3072
    Last edited by Ardenaso; 2020-09-03 at 01:44 AM.
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  6. #26
    I dont understand why they decided to give female nelves a "meatier" face, but not the males?

    The skinny face and waist is the main reason I cant play a male nelf. They all look the same, and the waist looks like one of the ribs was removed

  7. #27
    Banned Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    someone's making a WC2 Reforged (https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...forged.325570/) (https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/a...cond-war.9994/)

    and so I thought of that chapter in WC2 where Ner'zhul recovers the Scepter of Kil'jaeden



    regarding this, is it right that I convince them to change the "human forces" in this chapter into Moonguard Night Elves or Farondic Court Ghosts?

    chapter map for reference:



    bigger: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wo...20160417152154
    Yes. Humans were only used in the original WC2 because of game limitations.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mika Hawkins View Post
    The current international circumstance on Azeroth appears to support the Alliance to a stupid degree.

    Sick show a portion of the fundamental qualities of the Alliance and afterward the Hordes.

    Partnership

    Jaina, most remarkable Mortal mage in existance (that we are aware of)

    Mechagnomes, extraordinary techonological advantage

    Ironforge, the best Industrial center on Azeroth, equipped for outfitting the whole Alliance all alone.

    Malfurion Stormrage, Greatest non-impartial Druid.

    Tyrande Whisperwhind, Night Warrior (most likely managed in Shadowlands however)

    Stormwind and its Heartlands, immaculate by war.

    The Lightforged, evil presence killing rebels with an orbital gun (needs fuel however)

    Void Elves that can Drop bomb into any area without issue, unfathomably ground-breaking.

    Alleria Windrunner, Void God engaged interminable Nether crusader.

    Turalyon, Light engaged interminable Nether crusader.
    They have set up the alliance to be really powerful, but they don't use this well at all, and seem to do it at the expense of proper racial development. it's like you give a big gun like the vindicaar , but never actually use it when the plot demands it. Don't even bother to give an exucse why it's out of play.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    @Mace, I think the night elven highborne might be better served as a group that genuinely seeks to pioneer the re-unification of the elves but from the kaldorei pricnipalled standpoint. Hence why they're allied with the Darnassians.

    I think they'd have been better served as identifiably a separate group from the Darnassians, like the Illidari and the Ebon blade, but allied to them - and it is clear it is an alliance, not a re-integration.

    So they seek to restore the confidence and proliferation of the arcane amongst the largest kaldorei community - i.e. the Darnassians, by restoring its confidence in magic and restoring the pride and integrity of the highborne class (no they shouldn't be choosing easy targets, they were the empire leaders and were "glorious" , the Queen's over reaching (which this Highborne group did not approve of, ruined it all). And as such sort of act like a go-between.

    I think the Nightborne would have been perfect as that Illidari/Ebon blade type group, with the Highborne working with them for htis elven unification but operating amongst the night elves while the other Nightborne working with the blood elves.

    Blizz could potentially have ended Suramar as a place where both Highborne and Nightborne now live and work together, with the Highborne working amongst the alliance and the Nightborne amongst the horde. Keeping the Thalassians separate in Eastern Kingdom and the Darnassians separate in Kalimdor.


    This way there is a separation, just like when you think Illidari, you clearly don't think Darnassian druids/priests, nor when you roll a Night elf DK do you think Tyrande/Malfurion, you think Ebon Blade, it fits far better if you were led the same way to think about the Highborne.



    I would propose. The Highborne have been working closely with the broken isle elves, who are quite friendly with the Nightborne - despite the nightborne being on the horde - this is possible because the broken isle native night elves are not alliance elves and haven't been involved with the faction politics at all, not to mention they play a key role in the salvation of the Nightborne through the Arcan'dor and the resistance in Shal'aran before the elven armies showed up, and they were counted in the Nightborne group despite being kaldorei.

    The elves of the broken isle are the ones that seek elven integration and restoration of the fortunes of the elves. This goes well beyond vanity ofc, because the elves are on the verge of extinction, the younger races keep making rash, unwise decisions, and they easily feel that the elves as one really did things the best way. They seek to lead by example, and possibly influence the factions.

    Part of their goals are to reconcile the Darnassians and Thalassians, but also to chaperone /watch and advise with wisdom horde and alliance.

    I just think this plan allows the Nightborne and Highborne to have joint role without involving all the night elves and blood elves and instantly resolving their issues, they could be a new power duo repreesnting the ancient kaldorei as joint effort group working to influence and uinte their brethren, winning some support amongst both Darnassians and Thalassians but obviously resistance as well, and that storyline can play out over time.


    Meanwhile practically, this could come with some extra highborne specific cusotmisations for Night elves, and some additional night elf influenced options for Nightborne.

    Things like the star tattoos and hair etc for night elves, and some more hairstyles, colours and arcane effects for nightborne.

    https://i.ibb.co/WpPHdn0/subrace-cus...-highborne.jpg


    If they did this, and you clicked Highborne, maybe you would start with a different narrative or an NPC saying something like you've just come from the group that went to the Broken Isles, and you are back to help the Darnassiasns and restore the trust of the kaldorei in their ancient heritage.

    Would that work for you guys?
    That depends on what blizzard wants. Do you develop night elf Highborne, Illidari and others as meaningful dimensions to the night elves playing important integral roles in their politics , development and new future? or do you just ditch them and develop the nightborne?

    hordies i can understnad would want the nightborne to get the development, and I also understand the involvement of Nightborne with night leves even though being in the opposite faction.

    Depends if blizzard continue the night elves as a big race or a small time race.

    Your proposal could be interesting no doubt, it could provide some blood elf/nightborne disagreement/conflict (not a major one, just a nuanced one. With some blood elves fully on board, while others playing a lorash/Maiev type role, wanting to perpetuate hate and feel they need to protect the horde by destroying the efforts of corporation etc..
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  9. #29
    since many of you are probably NA, can you leave a comment on a feedback thtread? they changed the night warrior eyes to a completly difrent color (from blue to pratically pitch black). I know many apreciated the first blue night warrior eyes, and more options and diversity is always a plus especially when it comes to kaldorei eye colors:


    Reference:

    both very difrent, enough that it isnt an update or a change its pratically a replacement, it be better to have both, maybe we can make blizzard listen and make lemonade out of lemons for once and these crystal like night warrior eyes is a very striking option that works for many archtypes of the kaldorei, it be an immense shame to lose it ?

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-change/630678
    Last edited by yana; 2020-09-04 at 03:46 PM.

  10. #30
    @ravenmoon

    i think it is the best way it can work - boosting the Nightborne boosts the arcane civilziation of the night elves that you like so much. By tying the Highborne into the storyline of the broken isles and Nightborne in a positive way, you get to have a night elf highborne isde that can develop along arcane lines, experience arcane civilization and the pursuits of that branch without co-opting from the horde or diminishing the nightborne.

    It also allows kaldorei involvement from those Highborne to spill into other kaldorei branches, the druids of Val'sharha and the valewalkers - can see development, especially the balance druids, might even start something amongst curious nightborne, you have the order of Elune too, with the big Cahtedral that cna restore a wing of the priesthood that has been awol since the last great civilisation of the night elves, restored in Suramar involving both night elves and nightborne.

    All this without affecting the general vibe of the Darnassians others like @Isilrien and @Hellspawn like, because Tyrnade/MAlfurion's group would not really be majorly involved with those affairs, but it would have a heavy night elf focus, just broken isle based, with the Shalassians (Nightborne) instead of the Darnassians at the centre. There are times it would touch Darnassian politics, because the Highborne have an arrangement with them, but it would continue to be peripheral (i.e. the occasional NPC etc) not any rela story involvement, that would mainly happen in a nightborne story.

    Even in trying to work together for peace and unifying the elves, they will face a lot of conflict and opposition - the Highborne trying to convince the Darnassians, and the Nightborne trying to convince the horde Thalassians.

    It also can serve as the main vehicle when the elves or even the factions come together, as that would actually rely most on those who are friends across the factions.

    The Stars

    The star theme you mentioned earlier for the night elves also works really well on both the Nightborne and the void elves. THe void elves have that whole nexus, void star thing, the Nightborne ofc have the star thing as part of their night elf civilization side, and ofc this is present in the kaldorei - which while not been shown much in the druids or priests, certainly has room to be shown in the Highborne, the balance druids, and the Moon Priestesses - these 3 aspects of the night elves have not been really expanded on much.

    think about it. When it comes to druids, it's been mostly the feral druids in bear form, cat form and resto druids that get the lore and the adventures - the balance druids, that has all the star spells and the arcane half, is there but almost zero lore or involvement. Same with the priesthood. The order of Elune has been shown a lot via the sentinels, huntresses and wardens, but the actual Moon Priestesses, have rarely ever shown up, and only Tyrnade twice in the 16 year lifespan of wow has actually used any of her power for us to see, (1st time in the possible future of the End times instance, then in 8.1's night warrior ritual).

    This means there is a huge gap and scope for this part of the night elves, the void elves and the Nightborne to actually share something profoundly elven and kaldorei in origin. together.

    What do you guys think?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by yana View Post
    since many of you are probably NA, can you leave a comment on a feedback thtread? they changed the night warrior eyes to a completly difrent color (from blue to pratically pitch black). I know many apreciated the first blue night warrior eyes, and more options and diversity is always a plus especially when it comes to kaldorei eye colors:


    Reference: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...489/image0.jpg

    both very difrent, enough that it isnt an update or a change its pratically a replacement, it be better to have both, maybe we can make blizzard listen and make lemonade out of lemons for once and these crystal like night warrior eyes is a very striking option that works for many archtypes of the kaldorei, it be an immense shame to lose it ?

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-change/630678
    Both would definitely be better than either. But if you had to pick one it should be the black one. Not sure why we can't have both.

  11. #31
    yeah but they changed the texture to a difrent color, its not even the same blue as the darkshore moon or tyrande's own eyes.
    and nelves have atm only 4 eye colors, so a new one would be welcome and its an easy enough task since its just adding the old texture back (that is the same as it is on live, but its centered difrently) and everyone is happier!

    both colours are gorgeous, but very difrent, one shouldn't replace the other.

    If you agree and your able to post id apreciate it a lot.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    snip
    Yes, okay, but I'm a bit confused why you'd be interested in this, it's one aspect the blood elves have little to nothing involved with, and if anything it would strengthening the Nightborne's kaldorei roots and connection, which a lot of blood elf fans don't really want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by yana View Post
    yeah but they changed the texture to a difrent color, its not even the same blue as the darkshore moon or tyrande's own eyes.
    and nelves have atm only 4 eye colors, so a new one would be welcome and its an easy enough task since its just adding the old texture back (that is the same as it is on live, but its centered difrently) and everyone is happier!

    both colours are gorgeous, but very difrent, one shouldn't replace the other.

    If you agree and your able to post id apreciate it a lot.
    Welcome to blizzard, what would be a simple addition and create huge satisfaction , not to mention quite warranted because as you point out, "only 4 eye options", is likely going to be completely ignored - because they don't see it.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    @ravenmoon

    i think it is the best way it can work - boosting the Nightborne boosts the arcane civilziation of the night elves that you like so much. By tying the Highborne into the storyline of the broken isles and Nightborne in a positive way, you get to have a night elf highborne isde that can develop along arcane lines, experience arcane civilization and the pursuits of that branch without co-opting from the horde or diminishing the nightborne.

    It also allows kaldorei involvement from those Highborne to spill into other kaldorei branches, the druids of Val'sharha and the valewalkers - can see development, especially the balance druids, might even start something amongst curious nightborne, you have the order of Elune too, with the big Cahtedral that cna restore a wing of the priesthood that has been awol since the last great civilisation of the night elves, restored in Suramar involving both night elves and nightborne.

    All this without affecting the general vibe of the Darnassians others like @Isilrien and @Hellspawn like, because Tyrnade/MAlfurion's group would not really be majorly involved with those affairs, but it would have a heavy night elf focus, just broken isle based, with the Shalassians (Nightborne) instead of the Darnassians at the centre. There are times it would touch Darnassian politics, because the Highborne have an arrangement with them, but it would continue to be peripheral (i.e. the occasional NPC etc) not any rela story involvement, that would mainly happen in a nightborne story.

    Even in trying to work together for peace and unifying the elves, they will face a lot of conflict and opposition - the Highborne trying to convince the Darnassians, and the Nightborne trying to convince the horde Thalassians.

    It also can serve as the main vehicle when the elves or even the factions come together, as that would actually rely most on those who are friends across the factions.

    The Stars

    The star theme you mentioned earlier for the night elves also works really well on both the Nightborne and the void elves. THe void elves have that whole nexus, void star thing, the Nightborne ofc have the star thing as part of their night elf civilization side, and ofc this is present in the kaldorei - which while not been shown much in the druids or priests, certainly has room to be shown in the Highborne, the balance druids, and the Moon Priestesses - these 3 aspects of the night elves have not been really expanded on much.

    think about it. When it comes to druids, it's been mostly the feral druids in bear form, cat form and resto druids that get the lore and the adventures - the balance druids, that has all the star spells and the arcane half, is there but almost zero lore or involvement. Same with the priesthood. The order of Elune has been shown a lot via the sentinels, huntresses and wardens, but the actual Moon Priestesses, have rarely ever shown up, and only Tyrnade twice in the 16 year lifespan of wow has actually used any of her power for us to see, (1st time in the possible future of the End times instance, then in 8.1's night warrior ritual).

    This means there is a huge gap and scope for this part of the night elves, the void elves and the Nightborne to actually share something profoundly elven and kaldorei in origin. together.

    What do you guys think?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Both would definitely be better than either. But if you had to pick one it should be the black one. Not sure why we can't have both.
    yeah but with only 4 eye colours (the fully blind ones arent working atm but its still only 6) when they change the color so drasticly that its not even the same shade, it should be an addition, so id apreciate any post to lift that thread up since its an easy enough solution and more options is always better!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Yes, okay, but I'm a bit confused why you'd be interested in this, it's one aspect the blood elves have little to nothing involved with, and if anything it would strengthening the Nightborne's kaldorei roots and connection, which a lot of blood elf fans don't really want.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Welcome to blizzard, what would be a simple addition and create huge satisfaction , not to mention quite warranted because as you point out, "only 4 eye options", is likely going to be completely ignored - because they don't see it.
    then if you can post and like id apreciate it, if you dont share with friends that can its an easy enough solution for double the satisfaction, might as well make some noise!
    complain about it latter but it's time to be noisy and anoying, its a simple enough adiition
    Last edited by yana; 2020-09-04 at 04:26 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Yes, okay, but I'm a bit confused why you'd be interested in this, it's one aspect the blood elves have little to nothing involved with, and if anything it would strengthening the Nightborne's kaldorei roots and connection, which a lot of blood elf fans don't really want.
    Can't a person be interested in other things? I like blood elves, but am generally interested in all elves, and I think looking to the stars side of the elves would be a new angle. The void elves, Nightborne and night elves (mainly highborne, balance druids and Moon Priestesses) have a strong connection here.


    Anyway, the void elves are catching my interest, and they could provide more than just the "void lords" evil 1- catch function, i think would be good. The void elves seem to approach the void from a magical angle too, this is an expansion of void concepts than go beyond a religious/spiritual "opposite" of the Light only context - and one significant way this can be brought to bear is in the stars. Cos the void has this whole space/stars thing. Which can connect to the night elves/nightborne quite well as it's an unexplored side of them I've seen you and Mace insist is or should be core to the expression of the night elves moreso than the forest or the arcane.

    It seems a logical point forward. It could be an all alliance thing, with the Draenei who are also space worthy, maybe a theme that connects the more magical alliance races (night elves, void elves, draenei) with some common theme humans are not involved. Adding Nightborne to the equation in a major way could certainly give the horde a place, and that could even rope in some blood elves who seem to like both Dranei and Lightforged and also with the experience in the Netherstorm, to be an interesting magical aspect - i.e. something NEW.

  15. #35
    Bloodsail Admiral Isilrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    @ravenmoon

    i think it is the best way it can work - boosting the Nightborne boosts the arcane civilziation of the night elves that you like so much. By tying the Highborne into the storyline of the broken isles and Nightborne in a positive way, you get to have a night elf highborne isde that can develop along arcane lines, experience arcane civilization and the pursuits of that branch without co-opting from the horde or diminishing the nightborne.

    It also allows kaldorei involvement from those Highborne to spill into other kaldorei branches, the druids of Val'sharha and the valewalkers - can see development, especially the balance druids, might even start something amongst curious nightborne, you have the order of Elune too, with the big Cahtedral that cna restore a wing of the priesthood that has been awol since the last great civilisation of the night elves, restored in Suramar involving both night elves and nightborne.

    All this without affecting the general vibe of the Darnassians others like @Isilrien and @Hellspawn like, because Tyrnade/MAlfurion's group would not really be majorly involved with those affairs, but it would have a heavy night elf focus, just broken isle based, with the Shalassians (Nightborne) instead of the Darnassians at the centre. There are times it would touch Darnassian politics, because the Highborne have an arrangement with them, but it would continue to be peripheral (i.e. the occasional NPC etc) not any rela story involvement, that would mainly happen in a nightborne story.

    Even in trying to work together for peace and unifying the elves, they will face a lot of conflict and opposition - the Highborne trying to convince the Darnassians, and the Nightborne trying to convince the horde Thalassians.

    It also can serve as the main vehicle when the elves or even the factions come together, as that would actually rely most on those who are friends across the factions.

    The Stars

    The star theme you mentioned earlier for the night elves also works really well on both the Nightborne and the void elves. THe void elves have that whole nexus, void star thing, the Nightborne ofc have the star thing as part of their night elf civilization side, and ofc this is present in the kaldorei - which while not been shown much in the druids or priests, certainly has room to be shown in the Highborne, the balance druids, and the Moon Priestesses - these 3 aspects of the night elves have not been really expanded on much.

    think about it. When it comes to druids, it's been mostly the feral druids in bear form, cat form and resto druids that get the lore and the adventures - the balance druids, that has all the star spells and the arcane half, is there but almost zero lore or involvement. Same with the priesthood. The order of Elune has been shown a lot via the sentinels, huntresses and wardens, but the actual Moon Priestesses, have rarely ever shown up, and only Tyrnade twice in the 16 year lifespan of wow has actually used any of her power for us to see, (1st time in the possible future of the End times instance, then in 8.1's night warrior ritual).

    This means there is a huge gap and scope for this part of the night elves, the void elves and the Nightborne to actually share something profoundly elven and kaldorei in origin. together.

    What do you guys think?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Both would definitely be better than either. But if you had to pick one it should be the black one. Not sure why we can't have both.
    I do not like the Darnassians over the Highborne or Nightborne and have never said anything to this effect. Just FYI :-)

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    I do not like the Darnassians over the Highborne or Nightborne and have never said anything to this effect. Just FYI :-)
    Oh, thought you didn't like night elf civilization and arcane side and wanted it removed or at least un-noticeable/minimised in what you saw of the Darnassian alliance night elves.

    I may be wrong, but judging from what I read in other topics, there seems to be a few alliance players who want the main night elf faction on their side to be primtive and feral like, not magical or elven - and a lot of the horde elven playerbase want this as well.

    By making the Nightborne the driving force of the kaldorei civilization and arcane side - which is what they were introduced as, it makes sense that that side of the night elves , which is still around and obviously seriously liked by a good portion of the alliance night elf fans, have an avenue it can express and grow with a race that was created entirely based on it- i.e. the nightborne - rather than excluding them or removing them from the horde they're on.

    Use them, and make them the main focus of that side of the night elves they represent, with those from the night elf race in that vein quite tied into that story line as co-stars. Afterall it's a major side of the night elves, but one that doesn't interfere with the forest vibe the Darnassians are free to carry out without having to mix with that side of the night elves some people don't really want their "vibe" polluted.

    I've just listened to the arguments, the Mace/Ravenmoon pair make valid points, but so do the rest of us. What the night elves are overall vs what we see them in game. In game we only see a portion of their totatliy, it's the forest vibe side, b many fans like that and perceive the playable night elf group as that. While the highborne /arcane lovers are correct in their lore, they wish an expansion on the role of the night elves that isn't welcome by all, especially the horde fans now the nightborne fill that role.

    Yet it would be stupid to ignore or remove an aspect that has a hardcore fan base when their is room to accomodate it properly, ivsually in-game via the Nightborne and the broken isles.

    If the void/high elves and blood elves can have two major streams of stories and progression for Thalassian elves, it stands to reason that Darnassians and Shalassians can spear head to major themes for night elf lore, one Kaldorei pre-sundering/civilziation based, and one Long vigil/Wc3 druidic nature based.

    It's already in game, both fans get what they want, you get an interesting story and developments and no vibe is really effected. No fear of Darnassians turning into "blood elves or Nightborne", they maintain their WC3 vibe, whereas the rest of the development on the other sides of the kaldorei continue with the highborne and nightborne on the broken isles having their own sub-community nation.


    At least that's the concept for proceeding I believe @Tanaria, @Alanar, @MyWholeLifeIsThunder and even @ravenmoon, @Mace , @Astranea , @Rhlor @Sharnie786 , @Ardenaso @matrix123mko even @Moonrage and @Powerogue and @Tuor I believe should all agree.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-09-04 at 08:47 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Oh, thought you didn't like night elf civilization and arcane side and wanted it removed or at least un-noticeable/minimisedin what you saw of the alliance night elves.

    I may be wrong, but judging from what I read in other topics, there seems to be a few alliance players who want the main night elf faction on their side to be primtive and feral like, not magical or elven - and a lot of the horde elven playerbase want this as well.

    By making the Nightborne the driving force of the kaldorei civilization and arcane side - which is what they were introduced as, it makes sense that that side of the night elves , which is still around and obviously seriously liked by a good portion of the alliance night elf fans, have an avenue it can express and grow with a race that was created entirely based on it- i.e. the nightborne - rather than excluding them or removing them from the horde they're on.

    Use them, and make them the main focus of that side of the night elves they represent, with those from the night elf race in that vein quite tied into that story line as co-stars. Afterall it's a major side of the night elves, but one that doesn't interfere with the forest vibe the Darnassians are free to carry out without having to mix with that side of the night elves some people don't really want their "vibe" polluted.

    I've just listened to the arguments, the Mace/Ravenmoon pair make valid points, but so do the rest of us. What the night elves are overall vs what we see them in game. In game we only see a portion of their totatliy, it's the forest vibe side, b many fans like that and perceive the playable night elf group as that. While the highborne /arcane lovers are correct in their lore, they wish an expansion on the role of the night elves that isn't welcome by all, especially the horde fans now the nightborne fill that role.

    Yet it would be stupid to ignore or remove an aspect that has a hardcore fan base when their is room to accomodate it properly, ivsually in-game via the Nightborne and the broken isles.

    If the void/high elves and blood elves can have two major streams of stories and progression for Thalassian elves, it stands to reason that Darnassians and Shalassians can spear head to major themes for night elf lore, one Kaldorei pre-sundering/civilziation based, and one Long vigil/Wc3 druidic nature based.

    It's already in game, both fans get what they want, you get an interesting story and developments and no vibe is really effected. No fear of Darnassians turning into "blood elves or Nightborne", they maintain their WC3 vibe, whereas the rest of the development on the other sides of the kaldorei continue with the highborne and nightborne on the broken isles having their own sub-community nation.


    At least that's the concept for proceeding I believe @Tanaria, @Alanar, @MyWholeLifeIsThunder and even @ravenmoon, @Mace , @Astranea , @Rhlor @Sharnie786 , @Ardenaso @matrix123mko even @Moonrage and @Powerogue and @Tuor I believe should all agree.
    my opinion about Darnassians and magic is that it obviously exists, must exist and deserves representation! Always support playable alliance night elves have highborne customization! The Shendrelar are an ethnic minority within the Darnassian state and therefore deserve and should be featured and be a customization option for players.

    For this reason I also support the creation of a shendrelar district in a future capital, where they have a great mage tower!

    What I differ with other people is that they seem to want is for the Shendrelar to take control of the Darnassian society and for everything to return to the state of empire. the darnassian are a society with a culture mainly oriented towards nature

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Oh, thought you didn't like night elf civilization and arcane side and wanted it removed or at least un-noticeable/minimised in what you saw of the Darnassian alliance night elves.
    .
    Look, maybe the best solution is to uncouple of the Highborne from the Darnassians.

    Both the Illidari and Ebon Blade show you don't have to be a Darnassian night elf to be playable. Which means the Shen'dralar and their new Highborne order don't have to be a core part of an integrated new night elf society. They can operate as a group with their own agenda - whether working closely with the Nightborne and broken Isle night elves and/or the humans and Dalaran including void elves/high elves - almost like the side of the Night elves that is more open to outsiders, development and making their mark - while the others like the druids care only for the forests and the Tyrande's led Priesthood care only for the Darnassian community.

    As I said earlier it depends on what blizzard want. Initially, it seemed that WoW forward was a new era for night elves that would combine the best of their previous 2 eras into a bright future containing strong elements of both, in a grand vision for the race.

    The development of wow somewhat changed this, night elf developments were very few and far between, people got far too use to seeing/perceiving the night elves only in their WC3/Long vigil and WoW forest starting area identity. (you can thank repetitious play and slow updates for that)

    This coupled with the fact that night elves were portrayed very poorly in terms of capability created a sense that only the warcraft 3 incarnation was acceptable for night elves - I suspect this is because in this period night elves weren't weak as they've been in wow, so there has been a rejection of any of the changes made to night elves during wow, including being friendly with humans, but not limited to that, extending the civilization side of the night elves Highborne development have all been lumped in as bad by some of the old remnants because night elves have sucked in the story line and rather than blame writer negligence for that, they are blaming the night elf changes and focuses.

    I think our arguments have over delved into it, conflating the issue as @Aucald would be able to observe keenly. Our perception is often different from that of the developers, as we often have a different experience of the content they create when we play it than they do when they design/discuss it and implement it into the game before moving on to the next phase while we are left sometimes with unusual amount of time on aspects that had very little development time/focus (a typical example is mid-expansion patches form the bulk of our perception as players, but actually it is the actual expansion design that fashions the perecpetion of the devs - they spend a lot more time building the expansion like Azsuna, Suramar, Val'sharah than they do patches like the Broken shore, Argus - but our memories of the expansion are far more skewed to the patches we spend ages of time on than the initial expansion content we blast through in a week to hit max level at.

    However, eventually, they respond to what we like so if we respond very favourably to feral night elves, they'll push that more. But arcane night elves were also very popular - the Nightborne are the evidence of this (as well as all fans of pre-sundering Kaldorei, Azshara, WotA etc which Suramar, Azsuna and Val'sharah were mostly designed to show that other past of the night elves - very powerful in the lore, but absent in the game's experience of the race - the starting experience mentions nothing of pre WC3, yet that's the lionshare of night elf lore - and when it came eventually with Legion and Suramar - it was very well received showing you people like that stuff), yet hat popularity is highest amongst horde elf fans - the reason is not because they want it more it's because the elven identity of magic has been portrayed stronger there and the louder fans of it and more recent ones are there. So it's currently perceived (incorrectly imho) as horde, when it is actually Night elven (neither horde nor alliance)

    Face it, the night elves have had little to no development, so you have far fewer hardcore fans that even remember the books or lore etc, people like myself, Mace, Sharnie and a few others are minnows compared to the masses following the very invigorated blood elf race stories hat have made appearnces consistently.

    And so the arcane side of the night elves found itself swung over tot he horde and I feel much of the resistance to night elves acquring or developing that is based on the same fear hordies had of high elves, i.e. it's more a rivalry/jealous thing than it is rooted in lore or concept.

    At least it is for my part, I have always wanted this part of the night elves since before blood elves became a thing and certainly long before they did the Nightborne, my views have been consistent in wanting that aspect of the night elves restored although the avenue or means I imagined it have changed since cataclysm and then again since Legion.

    It's really hard to tell if this would work as you say, the essence I assume here is to satisfy fans like me by allowing the kaldorei to continue to experience this side of their race via a playable night elf on the alliance but the activity is centred around the Nightborne as a race rather than as a horde race. Giving it a soft horde focus, but hard Night elf focus that's Nightborne driven - in which case you feel it would satisfy all the needs those who love the arcane side of the night elves have and allow them to experience it by proxy through some sort of relation or corperation with the Nightborne. Becuase you, like MyWholeLifeIsThunder and Alanar believe that this is the point of the Nightborne and blizz should instead use them mainly rather than the Darnassians for this side of the night elves.

    It could work. Would that make me happier? Tbh, I've just wanted a really good story from blizz and wanted to see night elves get some good development, if the Nightborne can play a role in that and feel a part of that even if horde, then I could like it a lot. But that has always been the case.

    ~I don't hate the Nightborne, I actually quite liked them, I just don't like how they made them join the horde (it's not even the why, though I question that too, it's the how) and wasn't satisfied with how the behaviour towards night elves is written in the process. I expected much more and when blizzard just lumped them into horde plain ol, it irritated me enough.

    I have views concerning the Nightborne, if they continue as the original pre-sundering kaldorei civilization they are, with that as their mainidentity, and present that portion of the night elves in the vein Thalyssra was shown in 7.0 I would like them very much. If they effectively become blood elf side kicks, basically secondary yes men, in much the same way the night elves and every alliance race has become to humans, almost losing any real individuality and much lore flavour, then I'm not interested. I have no interest for uglier looking night elf skinned blood elves. It's lazy and un-interesting, the Nightborne and kaldorei civilization can have many ways they differ distinctly in a kaldorei fashion from blood elf society to not just look different, but feel like a different advanced civilization of the same elven species.

    They have all the elements of separation and enough distinctiveness to be unique enough to the blood elves whiles also sharing a lot in common.

    an example is their star/moon focus, the Order of Elune Moon Priestess heritage and access, superstition/mysticsm juxtaposed on pragmatism and intellectualism - not to mention druidic concepts like balance between arcane and nature woven into a highly advanced magical society - offers something different enough from what the blood elves have and what the Darnassians are also, yet having their own good qualities based on what they are.

    You basically just have to care enough or desire enough to want to write it. Or do it right. I don't see it in blizz atm, they seem far more interested in Thalassians, Humans etc and character development plots than building races past what we see of them in their intro phases.

    Shame really. It's got all the groundwork for incredible depth, but only scratches on the surface for nearly every race - incl humans. They really need more Traveller adventure books, land and conflicts material to make full use of this.

    But tbh, they're best served by making a race expansion where they develop and build plots for each race that they make provision to continue as race campaigns across multiple expansions so you are constantly seeing realisations, developments etc of races.

    Until then, it's just a pipe dream that will likely be plagued by shoddy writing, inconsistencies and little depth that teases far more than it satisfies meant to only lure you to play, not get you drawn to stories and plots.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-09-04 at 09:33 PM.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  19. #39
    Bloodsail Admiral Isilrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Oh, thought you didn't like night elf civilization and arcane side and wanted it removed or at least un-noticeable/minimised in what you saw of the Darnassian alliance night elves...
    Nope. Not at all. I'm a fan of Night Elves in every way.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    my opinion about Darnassians and magic is that it obviously exists, must exist and deserves representation! Always support playable alliance night elves have highborne customization! The Shendrelar are an ethnic minority within the Darnassian state and therefore deserve and should be featured and be a customization option for players.

    For this reason I also support the creation of a shendrelar district in a future capital, where they have a great mage tower!

    What I differ with other people is that they seem to want is for the Shendrelar to take control of the Darnassian society and for everything to return to the state of empire. the darnassian are a society with a culture mainly oriented towards nature
    Well I think my support for highborne and like of it has made people think that is what I want, despite telling them plainly it isn't, but I understnad how constantly coming to the defense or reminding people of its existence and relevance can make it seem so - I saw that happen in Tanaria and realised I was pretty much doing similar but for night elven arcane matters, and it was making me appear like that was all I cared about.

    I think people prefer a simpler focus, they don't seem to be able to handle that night elves can do different things - they really don't. So if the Darnassians become only about druidism and Elune in the forest - they can get that. Then the Illidari can continue to be all about demons whether Night elf dominated/led or shared with blood elves, and Highborne can become about Nightborne and kaldorei civilization - giving a clear identity and association.

    It's not that all night elves are only about the Darnassians, it's just about where you see them play a strong and visible role elsewhere. So when you think of the Illidari you think of demon night elves. When you think of the Nightborne you think of the kaldorei empire/civilization and the Highborne.

    I think this is what wow is. You see the other identities of races wrapped up in strong factional identity groups which aren't necessarily part of the main race's identity, but can be just as strong. So the faction carries the identity.

    Darnassians is a faction
    Illidari is a faction
    Nightborne is a faction (which he proposes Highborne night elves play a major role in - remember how high elves played a major role in the blood elf story although it was as enemies)
    Ebon Blade is a faction - although night elves don't have a strong presences there.
    Cenarion Circle is a faction.


    We identify a race based on the faction, if the race has a strong identity in a faction, we perceive that version of the race (whether it's half demon, or differently themed) with respect to when we think of that faction. So we only think of Illidari night elves when we think of the Illidari faction, not when we think of the Night elves.

    Now Highborne doesn't have a strong faction identity of it's own visually in game. It does in lore, but you'd have to be familiar with the lore, and this is why I have had arguments with a lot of people, because the visual identity isn't there as a faction - however the Nightborne do, because of their stunning role and central focus in the first half of Legion, so it is a Highborne faction everyone knows of compared to the night elf Highborne who are a monumental faction but only in the lore.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

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