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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Nightborne versions of each class:

    Now Nightborne reflect kaldorei civilization and give us a chance to see how that culture does things. Whiles currently only Highborne, Moonguard and Nightborne types follow that way, I think it's practical to envision what the playable classes would be for player Nightborne and those Night elf players that play as Highborne.

    So the caster classes and hunter are obvious - they remain unchanged

    Mage, Priest (likely moon priest) and warlock
    Hunter is hunter, DK is DK there is no elven version of DK because the class is also a race of it's own.

    Rogue = Spellblade

    Warrior = Sentinel (Elune sentinel or Duskwatch sentinel)

    Druid/Monk = Botanist? or just monk/druid?

    This is what you would call your Nightborne/Highborne Rogue, warrior, monk and druid, what do you think?
    Spellblade could be a warrior - Spellblade Aluriel felt more like a mage warrior - but she could be a combat/outlaw rogue mage. But, it is worth noting rogue like melee combatants should be more common amongst elf types than actual warrior types - since their skill set fits agility, sneaking around, hiding, sneak attacks etc.

    Sentinels is definitely warrior - each Night elf group would have different names to them and their skill set would depend on their affiliations.

    Darnassian Sentinels would be Order of Elune related
    while Duskwatch Sentinels would be Nightborne related
    Moonguard Sentinels would be tied more to the Highborne and other pre-sundering night elf civilization groups.

    Makes sense: Rogues are Spellblades, Warriors are Sentinels... if they ever customise classes per race, they should give the Nightborne and highborne night elves the option to choose Spellblade skins for their rogues, and Highborne or Order of Elune sentinel skins for their warriors.

    I presume you would want night elves to have access to all 3 because you could presumably be playing a Highborne night elf or Moonguard one?

  2. #142
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Jan 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    played Reforged and noticed that Aszuna had some Nightborne feathers

    I assume that the Moonguard also has this kind of wear, no? Aszuna has to be named after Aszune

    Moonguard customizations for Nightborne, I hope
    check this out! Someone has made Aszune in Reforged

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's some more of his Highborne models:

    and then the Night Warrior
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    check this out! Someone has made Aszune in Reforged

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's some more of his Highborne models:

    and then the Night Warrior
    Don't want to necro this thread (i mean it's a general Night Elf thread so), but these models are so cool! We finally see Vashj in her pre naga form.

  4. #144
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    I think it's a "megathread" so necro-ing should be fine, (is it okay @Aucald ?)


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Don't want to necro this thread (i mean it's a general Night Elf thread so), but these models are so cool! We finally see Vashj in her pre naga form.
    check this out!

    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  5. #145
    I often regret making my main a night elf male (the laugh, the dance, the VOICE ugh), but after 15 years I'm loathe to change (briefly went female but my transmog looked weird), but it's the race that's the most fascinating to me (and I'd miss Shadowmeld).

  6. #146
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I think it's a "megathread" so necro-ing should be fine, (is it okay Aucald ?)
    A month isn't really considered a necro in a normal thread, and megathreads are given more leeway in this regard since they serve as aggregators for whatever topic they're about. It's fine to bump it so long as the content is relevant.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #147
    Updated art over rides new one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Things the Night elves can Regain

    Let's discuss the things the night elves can regain now to boost them in the story. The reason they can regain these is because it doesn't affect their gameplay


    1. Use of the Well of Eternity - this is the vehicle for resotring night elf wonders, anda powerful casting group of Moonguard (for battles) , Highborne for magical developments - that will make the night elves fele more attractive and powerful. Arcane works aren't the only ones effected, spell power and capbility is enhanced.. and if ever a racial expansion has a system to boost racials this will be reflected

    2. Use of the Emerald Dream: currently only the druids have access, but after the events of Legion and Shladrassil's restoration, plus being near Nordrassil - tihs power can be used to extend to all night elves granting life energies, protection and high spirits.

    3. The Black Moon and the Font of Elune - power oft he night ritual that Tyrande now controls can have a positive effect on the night elves, making them extremely dangerous , to demon hunter levels of excellence

    This is just making night elves look very attractive in game - gives them an excuse to build some relaly ocol and pretty stuff... and look really powerful when we see them in combat.

    The most powerful groups would be the Moonguard mage fighters, the Night warrior black moon fighters, the Illidari demon hunters that choose to help them out - these are the A gamers everyone fears and little to no one stands a chance - your typical sentinels, druid and priest is still quite tough to beat lore wise too, as they'd be augmented by these powers even if they are not part of the elite sects mentioned

    Effects on the Night elves:

    1. Immortality - can come back by using the Well of eternity. This is easy to see. There is no longer any reason to hide the power, the night elves need it now to both rebuild after their long vigil and being nearly wiped out, and to defend themselves. they now have the expertise to do so , they should. Pre-sundering night elves had perpetual immotality due to the Well. and those awayfrom Nordrassil like
    2. Immunity to environmental elements and normal sickness. - This can come from their connection to the Emerald dream, druids should use their power to connect the night elves to the Emerald dream, allowing vitality and immunity to environmental elements of heat and cold, and no longer getting sick from diseases
    3. The Night warrior ritual, and the growth of Elune's power and influence in them from Tyrande's efforts should open up a greater visibility and effect of their connection tot he stars - not sure how this would play out but night elf racial offensive abilities will all be star and moon arcane magic spells.

    None of this affects gameplay, being immortal is not quantifiable by gameplay, you still get hurt if you're slashed or you are hit with a spell
    Being immune to environmental elements does not make you invulnerable to magical elemental attacks.. from elementals or shaman and mages.
    Being immune to natural disease does not make you immune to magical ones cast by witches and warlocks, it just means you don't get natural sick, and that means nothing to gameplay.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  8. #148
    On Potential Elune influence or Involvement on Dark Troll Evolution to Night Elf

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Or that she remolded them over time based on her own appearance since Night Elves were evolutions, since they're supposed to be basically her chosen race.
    Yes, I've thought that as well, - I mean, as dark trolls, they probably loved the stars too, being nocturnal - or were a tribe of dark trolls marked by their love of the stars, and during their well gazing (maybe they loved the well so much because they could see doubt the heavens.. ) but Elune took interest in their curious benevolent nature,

    Or, maybe once upon a time she manifested, and in the most beautiful form ever, that of pure starlight they loved so much. She shone like the moon, and maybe their brains formed some sort of mental image of a human merged with troll, and that image in their mind is what they longed for.

    Her appearance is what drew them to study the well more, to find that beauty that ethereal glimpse of a being of pure starlight, hair shining like the moon, skin purple dark like the waters before her, her clothes of starlight.. entranced and drawn to good feel factor, they searched the well, observed it, looked at it, studied it endlessly in search of her, and this is how they awoken.

    Could be at the same time she saw them, these were different from the other trolls, they weren't interest in political power, conquest or violence, they were peaceful, benevolent and very curious, they learnt quick and always applied that knowledge to help . Where the other troll tribes would kill and eat a wounded animal, they would instead nurture it, where another troll group would just take for granted the heavens or the drop of a leaf or the movement of hte wind, they would gaze and study for hours. A rock would fall they'd not just curry in fear, but try to find out how it happened and prevent it, they would do so for other living creatures too.

    They were not just drawn to Elune, she was drawn to them, the well's arcane energies continued to bathe them and change them, and she guided their transformation fashioned by their will. Peering into their minds, she saw the image they desired most, and it was that of what they became later, the night elf.. but the truth is, that image was the image of her their minds had formulated when they would glimpse her - so in a sense the wills guided them to that form, under the goddess' direction via the well's energy.

    And voila.. night elf

    Not bad for on the spot huh?

    I got tempted to free roll write:

    Drawing from Username99277 and Ravenmoon's post:
    So in a round about ways, the night elf came to be because of their love of the stars, the light of the stars and perfect round white of the moon. As they developed, they would ever look upwards, fascinated by the stars, they mapped and formed constellations and learnt to draw power from the heavens as well as the well, one of the primary motivations of learning magic was to reach the stars to draw closer to Elune and her children the night elves who are reflected in the stars, every night elf born has a unique star. They would build and arrange their homes in the pattern of the stars, while their cities rested on nexus leyline intersections massive spell configurations to draw in the magic from the stars, and from the world beneath., the stars would inform them of the futures and destinies of their offspring, names were determined by star date, events were linked to star dates - a practice that exists to this days, all night elves have full names, but druids and sentinels have traditions that give them initiation names based on some aspect of nature or their adventure/training they excel at e.g. Tyrande and Malfuiron are names that are part of their star names, Stormrage however is a designation.. some families who achieve particularly noteworthy acts are given names accordingly. Which is why you have Stormrage, or Stargaze, Whisperwind, Shadowsong in addition to a star name like Aluriel, Maiev, Elisande, Mordant. For outsider sake, they give the shortened name. a families achievement name with the first name of the star name.

    once the augurs consult the stars for your newborn, your life is heralded on the path you will take.. in the pre-sundering civilization this was HEAVY, society had roles already predetermined from birth by this, your stars told your future, determined your mate, everything.. this carries on in all night elf societies, except newborn nightborne.. because of the shield, what the Star augurs did instead would map the current constellations via projection, so based on these memories and the archives of the night sky, they would know what star sign the child should be.. although blizzard can change that to say they adopted different methods.

    the main point is as Ravenmoon said, this establishes a star fundamental embedding of the night elves that is in their Elune worship order, druidism and their arcane civilization.. so even when they segregated, all night elves follow this, connected by their love for the stars and these traditions that are amongst all of them, whether your Highborne or lowborne, or in the new society whether druid or priests or just civilian..whether you've been isolated in a city like Eldre'thalas or Suramar or a forest like Ashenvale to Hyjal or Val'sharah - they all have it.

    Switching over to High Elves
    In the transition to High elves, hating all things kaldorei - rejecting the Highborne civilization or rather what the highborne lifestyle had become towards the end (not the original vein) because it summoned the legion, and rejecting the long vigil mandate because it refused to see sense, and worse banished them for doing what was clearly the best thing for their people - talk about trying to help your people and they instead choose fear and superstition that had little evidence (Malfurion couldn't prove Darth'remar was wrong), exiling you .. cutting you off from the magical protections and connections (how did Cenarius even do it??)

    Well where was Elune The nights were cold and merciless, the sun brought warmth that guided them heat that helped them in the cold north traverse, they ditched kaldorei customs, ditched Elune, did away with the rigours of rigid structure o kaldorei civilization, they would build a new one, better than the former, brighter, freer, magic would be freely practised and responsibly, there would be no discrimination on using the arcane. They would respect magic and not be haughty or reckless and they would ward against the twisting nether fighting their spells.

    new customs, replacement traditions, new religion would emerge, a philosophy based on logic and pragmatism - the light was real, and there was magic there, they knew it, but they didn't believe in a goddess, and sure enough they learnt how to harness the light and all the positive emotions and virtue that enhanced it. They were good people, noble too, virtuous.

    While most of the arcane knowledge was lost, they worked hard to build on what they had in their own heads from 3,000 years ago. they were gifted and bright, and the brightness of the sun became their symbol. Like a phoenix that rise born anew from the ashes, this being symbolised their rebirth.

    they would be high elves. Structurally, they used the same terms for things that night elves have always used, and academic terminology and structure remained the same, this is why you arcanists and magisters in both night elf and high elf kingdoms - those things wouldn't change, but a lot of things changed. system of governance, there was no lowborn class, no priest caste, no multiple nobility castes, besides 3,000 years under the long vigil, that sort of segregation the Hyjal community abandoned, they didn't restore it, they got rid of.

    All would be equal, all were high borne, they would be a race of higher elves. not bound by fear and superstition, but by hard facts, rigorous study, principles and proofs, bound by a strong moral and technical code, they would suffer no t the arrogance and reckless hubris that led to the corruption of the former queen.

    in time, they would have societal hierarchies, as Darth'remar was crowned king, the were would be leaders of institutions as their numbers replenished and their society grew, some retained names from the kaldorei civilization, others were completely new. New to reflect the new location, new magics they learnt and incorporated.

    And so they are their own unique and bright elven culture and society, and while they share the love for the arcane and similarities with the academic structures as well as recent freedom from the pain of addiction (compared to most kaldorei for whom that was 10,000 years ago), their culture is still very different from the kaldorei civilization culture of the Nightborne. No star focus or tradition, no night fascination and glorification of the moon, no Elune, no celestial influence. They have astromnacers, recently, but only purely from a magical harnessing point of view, no spirituality or tradition or superstition attached to it.

  9. #149
    I just wanted to say that Nightborne are in dire need of more customizations. Blizzard, please, do something about them

  10. #150
    Understanding Kaldorei Architecture

    I’ve seen a lot of confusion of this. And a lot of mis u der standing.

    I will try correct the misconception.

    1. All architecture built by the night elves is night elf architecture.

    Styles vary based on purpose (orders) , setting. (Rural or urban) and era (pre-sundering and long vigil)

    2. There is no “Highborne” architecture. It’s all night elven. Highborne aren’t a different race amongst night elves nor do they have a different style.

    Highborne homes are more jewelled and heavily guided. Priest caste temples are the most stylish architecture wise. Normal night elf homes have more gardens and flowers and less ornamentation.

    This is the difference.

    3. Forest Hones are just as much night elf Hines as city and marble homes

    Night elves have different communities that use different styles based on communities.

    Druids live in barrow dens. They don’t live in trees or wood homes though they may have a bar there.

    Night elf culture of the Darnassians would sometimes live in tree homes during the long vigil, they built no permanent homes during that period where they were immune to even elements and immortal. Other night elves like the She ‘dralar and the Nightborne continued living in night elf cities whether they were Highborne or not.

    Misconception On Night Elf Architecture

    Most people recognise this

    As night elf buildings.

    But this

    more for blood elves (desperate not to call it night elf).

    They are wrong. They are both night elf buildings. One is used in rural and remote areas , the other is used in cities. Both Suramar palace above, and the Lor'dnael inn above it, were both built by night elves

    People think only the Highborne build civilisations and night elves don’t have a place there. Again they are wrong because Highborne are night elves, they aren't two different people. You would be more correct if you said Highborne build night elf civilization and lowborne don't have a place there. But it won't e 100% correct either, the Highborne led, but they didn't do the work alone.

    WotA said both the arcane and nature built the night elf cities. The arcane was wielded mostly by Highborne and nature by sentient Druid trees adept in nature magic. [from WotA trilogy] and while it doens't specify anythign else, you can imagine many more people were involved.

    But if you're stillnot convinvced that night elves can build such buildings, and only Highborne (as some separate race) can, who built these incredible temples of Elune?

    Only one of the above is not from a night elf city. Can you guess which? Either way, They are not out of place in a night elf city like Suramar or Zin’Azshari, but certainly out of place in a place like Feathermoon Stronghold.

    This is because the difference isn’t Highborne and night elf at all. Never was. The difference is rural and urban. Forest and city.

    • In forests, the community is Druidic. They are not building lots of homes, elves live all over the forest here so you will see the odd converted tree and occasionally the remote inn or wood huts. Very few. They disturb the trees as little as possible.
    • The city is where night elves who have other pursuits than nature will congregate. Here a nation can be administered, trade, craft, international relations, nation organisation, military. Nation headquarters for various orders that operate all over including. But not limited to forests.
    • People think night elves would only live in forests. Why? There business also touches the spiritual, the arcane, demon hunting, other races Their classes aren’t all forest based either. And a forest is no place to administer and govern an international worthy nation and a society.

    The long vigil didn’t need that because the night elves there were in isolation hiding their well and hiding themselves from everyone. Their duty was guard, watch to prevent the legion.

    That is over. Night elves now continue life. What this means is some will definitely need and live in cities. Happily and volunatarily. While others would remain in the forests. Priests are seen to move back into temples post legion

    It is inaccurate to think only the forest is the terrain and place night elves live and dwell. The lore has provided multiple landscapes as befits a race that indeed spanned the globe and had an empire.

    At the heart of the night elf empire was their affinity for the arcane and their love for nature. These always went hand in hand regardless of where the focus of the individual night elf was.

    Not every race has this sort of variation. But the night elves do because they were designed as a global spanning race [kaldorei empire that covered the world, and the legendary kaldorei nemesis of the burning legion introduced in WC3). You would have variation with complete sets. In Warcraft they achieved the most amongst the mortal races and there has to be evidence of this.

    they may not be a great empire now. But they have all the key components and the core skill set to be great in all the areas the lore gave them

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is by design. Not mistake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The night elves are also a PAST heavy race. Their greatness is in the Past. And while they could become fairly great again, it is very unlikely they will dominate the world like they once did. Players wrongly assume because the great cities were in the past, they somehow can't live in one now 20 years after the long vigil ended and isolation andt he ban on arcane magic ended, or they can't build one, despite all the Highborne mages, druidic ancients, and magical power all being available. I think a great and beautiufl city or 2 is well within their reach, I don't think we will get a global empire spanning night elves, that already happened. they had it, before we joined the story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Blizzard has been careful to match the lore to the game. They don’t always succeed. They miss things and some could do with tuning. But they have brought a lot of the Kaldorei forward.

    • We see a full Kaldorei pre sundering city in game in Suramar
    • We see a post long vigil early city in Darnassus
    • We see woodland fortress in Feathermoon stronghold
    • We see a woodland village in Val’sharah
    • We see night elf strongholds for nobles, wardens and Moonguar
    • We see nightbelf temples to Elune. A cathedral, a small temple and out of city temple
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2021-06-25 at 12:20 AM.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  11. #151
    At this point, the night elves could really be three separate but interconnected races.

    Originally that is what I would have classed the elves, in the original kaldorei, and the high elves.. But the high elves are really developed as their own race, even though they are elves and a sub family of night elves, but they are so detailed, they won’t.

    Night elves have 4 distinct core identities easily form a family of nations.

    1. The all female Order of Elune: from Amazonian girls “think wonderwoman – instead of female tarzan – these gals know high society and forest life alike, they have no problem mixing in the less advanced cities of humans or the palaces of their kin. But they are an all female community. They range from ornate temples, stronghold garrisons, to jungle/forest warfare and patrolling.
    2. The druid forest community, these are the deep nature lovers, they are either druids and their families or night elves who share a great love for nature too but aren’t necessarily druids, they don’t live in cities, they live in the forests, they live in either single families or very small communities they are spread all over. No longer immortal and immune to the elements, unless you are druid, I guess they can’t enjoy just sleeping in the outdoors scantily clad
    3. The arcane practitioners and city folk – these continue in the civilization side of the kaldorei that dominated the pre-sundering era, so they are the ones that largely build cities and populate them, they are very much involved in world affairs, see themselves as leaders and teachers of younger less knowledgeable in them you get basically the height of civilization as the night elves reached the highest point yet.. they are well sought after
    4. The demon hunters

    What you guys think

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