The Night Elves/borne discussion thread

[Mace]

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Maybe, it's time for you to admit the hidden truth...that nelfs are just crap Mages

Anyone who know wow lore can tell you’re b/sing on this one.

You mean the race with the greatest sorcerers and largest number of powerful ones to show up in the lore are weak in their area of greatest achievement they supersede others in?

The race that created the most advanced magical civilization no one has equalled yet are weak in that magic?

The race that is first to learn/discover and master these arts to a level no one else has yet you honestly think are weak

And also the race from which all Thalassians come from and inherit their magical talent from - if they are weak, Thalassians are going to be weak

Thinking they are weak here is delusional. I can use different adjectives to describe the state of arcane practice in different night elf groups, but weak would never be one of them.

I’m sorry, but you remind me of one of those children in the playground with his favourite toy, bragging to his mate “my robot toy is greatest” everyone knows he doesn’t say that because it’s the truth, even though he may think so, he says it because it’s his toy and his favourite.

[Tanaria]

Anyone who know wow lore can tell you’re b/sing on this one.

You mean the race with the greatest sorcerers and largest number of powerful ones to show up in the lore are weak in their area of greatest achievement they supersede others in?

The race that created the most advanced magical civilization no one has equalled yet are weak in that magic?

The race that is first to learn/discover and master these arts to a level no one else has yet you honestly think are weak

And also the race from which all Thalassians come from and inherit their magical talent from - if they are weak, Thalassians are going to be weak

Thinking they are weak here is delusional. I can use different adjectives to describe the state of arcane practice in different night elf groups, but weak would never be one of them.

I’m sorry, but you remind me of one of those children in the playground with his favourite toy, bragging to his mate “my robot toy is greatest” everyone knows he doesn’t say that because it’s the truth, even though he may think so, he says it because it’s his toy and his favourite.

What was no longer equates to what we've is now, otherwise the Draenei/Lightforged would be the top dogs without any equal.

I'm sorry, but going out of practice or continuing the same methods without improvements are not benefits. That's what we've got in the Shen'dralar...skilled, but never improved. We can see that with Immolthar and what happened. This led to the first culling.

Whereas we've got Sin'dorei with Blood Magic mastery, as well as arcane mastery with their creation, the mana bombs. We've got Telemancy expertise in the Nightborne, and we've got Ren'dorei who combine void and arcane and results are what we saw during BFA.

Like I say, you'll have to find something that Nelfs are good at, it'll be there..like Druidism...but, it's just no longer arcane sorcery. We've got others who are have achieved greater mastery of that now.

And I think your the one with an old robot, but you think it's more powerful and better than the new model. Doesn't work like that.
So, let's talk Night Elf Druidism Mastery?

[Mace]

Tanaria. The devs also literally said night elf mages are as strong as blood elves and others. Point blank.

It should really be obvious. That they are weak might be your fantasy for a power trip, but it isn’t the reality.


And all those achievements past or present all count. When we consider the mage capability of blood elves do we discount the strong high elves of the past? Or achievements they did in the development of Quel’thalas.

Does the story say night elves of the Darnassian group became weak or weaker at magic physically or genetically? No.

They didn’t become less magical, whether they continued practising magic or did not. All you can say is that up to cataclysm, Darnassian night elves were out of practice at the arcane. That is the only true thing you can say. And it only applies to part of that faction, not the race

[Tanaria]

Tanaria. The devs also literally said night elf mages are as strong as blood elves and others. Point blank.

It should really be obvious. That they are weak might be your fantasy for a power trip, but it isn’t the reality.


And all those achievements past or present all count. When we consider the mage capability of blood elves do we discount the strong high elves of the past? Or achievements they did in the development of Quel’thalas.

Does the story say night elves of the Darnassian group became weak or weaker at magic physically or genetically? No.

They didn’t become less magical, whether they continued practising magic or did not. All you can say is that up to cataclysm, Darnassian night elves were out of practice at the arcane. That is the only true thing you can say. And it only applies to part of that faction, not the race

Out of practice with no magical developments. That is the Shen'dralar, otherwise Immol'thar's hold wouldn't have weakened and they wouldn't have faced their first of three, cullings.

Being as strong as the Blood Elves - ok, so they aren't weak, but I don't see them as stronger. They are a minority in comparison to the Magisters (both bloods and voids.) So, Blizzard never confirmed what you have said. Therefore, I'm still in the right now. Blood Elves' mastery, legacy and everything about them is the Arcane. It's not what the current nelfs are now.
And the past doesn't reflect what we have now. Again, you will find powerful nelfs of today - they just aren't Mages. Majority of them are Druids, Wardens and Priests.

Again, if we want to talk factions and racial legacies within those factions - night elf druidism is the big thing.

And @Mace - at the end of the day, you tell me to find other "admirable things about blood elves." You know that whatever I'd say, you'd downplay it. I'd say "fel", you'd say "well Illidan and the Highborne mastered that before Blood Elves." I'd say "Farstriders" you'd say, "Sentinels and Farstriders are the same, more or less. Quite good, but probably the same." I'd say "Light" you'd say, "well Draenei are probably better." Your essentially trying to write out all other Mage races, because they don't fit the little shen'whatevers.
So, everything about Blood Elves, you'd just downplay. Well - if that's what you want to do, then I'll just do the same about nelfs.

[Hellspawn]

Out of practice with no magical developments. That is the Shen'dralar, otherwise Immol'thar's hold wouldn't have weakened and they wouldn't have faced their first of three, cullings.

Can you elaborate how this is related?
Both High Elves and Nightborn were only able to create a power source because they had an powerful artifact.
High Elves got some water from the original Well of Eternity which just creates another mini well of eternity when you spill it into some well.
Nightborn had one of the pillar of the creation which they used to create their own magical power well.
Shen'dralar had nothing, they had to use some demon which they used as power source and they were even able to got "clean" magic out of it without any fel side effects.

[Tanaria]

Can you elaborate how this is related?
Both High Elves and Nightborn were only able to create a power source because they had an powerful artifact.
High Elves got some water from the original Well of Eternity which just creates another mini well of eternity when you spill it into some well.
Nightborn had one of the pillar of the creation which they used to create their own magical power well.
Shen'dralar had nothing, they had to use some demon which they used as power source and they were even able to got "clean" magic out of it without any fel side effects.

The creature sated their battery for power, but over time, the battery wasn't being re-charged or re-used as a means to keep it in check.

And unlike High Elves and Naga, who had to adapt and better themselves in order to survive, dire maul just remained as it was. Not getting weaker as per the residents, but not getting stronger.

[Hellspawn]

The creature sated their battery for power, but over time, the battery wasn't being re-charged or re-used as a means to keep it in check.

And unlike High Elves and Naga, who had to adapt and better themselves in order to survive, dire maul just remained as it was

High Elfs did not better themeselves, they created the Sunwell and when that was gone they had to feed of minor magic sources and fel (and unlike the Shen'dralar they were affected by it).
With Naga we actually don't know, they are a entirely new race which N'Zoth transformed them into. They settled directly on the edge of the original well of eternity, so who knows how it works for them. But maybe transforming into naga solved the magic addicton.

So tell me how this serves as superior magical development?

[Tanaria]

High Elfs did not better themeselves, they created the Sunwell and when that was gone they had to feed of minor magic sources and fel (and unlike the Shen'dralar they were affected by it).
With Naga we actually don't know, they are a entirely new race which N'Zoth transformed them into. They settled directly on the edge of the original well of eternity, so who knows how it works for them. But maybe transforming into naga solved the magic addicton.

So tell me how this serves as superior magical development?

Actually, the Horde Blood Elves never fed on fel magic. This is a common misconception.
They sated their addicted through mana tapping into magical creatures throughout the land. Fel magic was only used by those on Outland.

Them having green eyes does not indicate that they are supreme master of fel magic. Indeed, only a minority of Blood Elves in Silvermoon, became Warlocks. The majority were still Magisters, favoring Fire and Arcane magic over Frost.

And the High Elves had to better themselves because their situation demanded it. They managed to fight off the Amani 10 to 1, but the Amani were growing stronger and even after the first war with them, they had to come up with ways of keeping them out of the Elven lands.

[Mace]

Out of practice with no magical developments. That is the Shen'dralar, otherwise Immol'thar's hold wouldn't have weakened and they wouldn't have faced their first of three, cullings.

Firstly, the lore tells us the shen'drlaar have been feverishly studying magic, in wolfheart they specifically emphasie their practice of magic, not wanting their skills to wane.

This is not a group out of practice.

The Darnassian group were out of practice at cataclysm, none of them had wielded the arcane for spells for 10,000 years. That's out of practice, but not necessarily weak..

Out of practice =/= weak if you didn't realise that. They are two very different things, being out of practice is remedied by practising.

[Tanaria]

Firstly, the lore tells us the shen'drlaar have been feverishly studying magic, in wolfheart they specifically emphasie their practice of magic, not wanting their skills to wane.

This is not a group out of practice.

The Darnassian group were out of practice at cataclysm, none of them had wielded the arcane for spells for 10,000 years. That's out of practice, but not necessarily weak..

Out of practice =/= weak if you didn't realise that. They are two very different things, being out of practice is remedied by practising.

Well I wish they had the evidence to back it up, because not long after they returned, a Sin'dorei creation, which still ripples Dustwallow, was dropped onto Theramore.

[Hellspawn]

Actually, the Horde Blood Elves never fed on fel magic. This is a common misconception.
They sated their addicted through mana tapping into magical creatures throughout the land. Fel magic was only used by those on Outland.

Them having green eyes does not indicate that they are supreme master of fel magic. Indeed, only a minority of Blood Elves in Silvermoon, became Warlocks. The majority were still Magisters, favoring Fire and Arcane magic over Frost.

This is not true. The magisters used fel energy to rebuild Silvermoon because they had nothing else. The blood elf eyes turned green because they lived in proximity to it.
See: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_elf

And the High Elves had to better themselves because their situation demanded it. They managed to fight off the Amani 10 to 1, but the Amani were growing stronger and even after the first war with them, they had to come up with ways of keeping them out of the Elven lands.

If we talk about pre Warcraft3 High Elfs here:
Fighting Amani was not really a magical feet. If I remember it correctly the Amani actually have beaten the High Elfs in term of magic, at least for some time. Also the High Elfs had help for the Night Elfs to fight the Amani.

And to beat the Amani in the end they had no magic solution but a political one. They teached the humans magic who destroyed most of the Amani in a big fire storm.

Non of your examples show superior magic development.

[Tanaria]

This is not true. The magisters used fel energy to rebuild Silvermoon because they had nothing else. The blood elf eyes turned green because they lived in proximity to it.
See: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_elf

No - you said, "Blood Elves fed on fel magic." Quel'Thalas did not.
They sated their addiction by using the arcane skills of mana tap and arcane torrent.

Siphoning fel energy is not the same as what the Sunfury on Outland did, who were feeding themselves on fel. Again, this is why Blood Elf Warlocks are hardly used and hardly seen, because hardly any of them actively used fel magic. They might be decent Warlocks, but the Sin'dorei are nowhere near it's "masters." Trying to make blood elves into a "warlock" race is folly and shows misunderstanding of the blood elf race.

Hell, the whole High Elf exile was not because of fel. High Elves had no problem with fel magic. They took issue with manatapping the creatures, which they saw as barbaric.

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If we talk about pre Warcraft3 High Elfs here:
Fighting Amani was not really a magical feet. If I remember it correctly the Amani actually have beaten the High Elfs in term of magic, at least for some time. Also the High Elfs had help for the Night Elfs to fight the Amani.

And to beat the Amani in the end they had no magic solution but a political one. They teached the humans magic who destroyed most of the Amani in a big fire storm.

Non of your examples show superior magic development.

Well if mine don't, then neither do yours mate.
Wow - weened off fel magic...yeah, so did the Blood Elves and Nightborne.

[Hellspawn]

Well if mine don't, then neither do yours mate.
Wow - weened off fel magic...yeah, so did the Blood Elves and Nightborne.

Well that was my entire point, nothing you brought up serves as example for superior magic development. I never claimed that Shen'dralar had superior magic development and would never back that claim with how they get their magic addiction under control.

[Combatbutler]

If we talk about pre Warcraft3 High Elfs here:
Fighting Amani was not really a magical feet. If I remember it correctly the Amani actually have beaten the High Elfs in term of magic, at least for some time. Also the High Elfs had help for the Night Elfs to fight the Amani.

The night elves weren't involved in the founding wars of Quel'thalas, the hidden path a not exclusive night elf organisation was involved in the second great conflict.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hig...e_note-FoQT-18

After many more years, the high elves discovered a land in the northern forests which suited them, and founded the kingdom of Quel'Thalas. Unfortunately, they would learn that Quel'Thalas was founded on a sacred and ancient troll city. The trolls began to attack the elven settlements en masse in retaliation. Although the Amani outnumbered them ten to one, the elves utilized magic to its fullest effect and defeated the trolls.

And to beat the Amani in the end they had no magic solution but a political one. They teached the humans magic who destroyed most of the Amani in a big fire storm.

That firestorm wasn't made by the humans alone

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Well that was my entire point, nothing you brought up serves as example for superior magic development. I never claimed that Shen'dralar had superior magic development and would never back that claim with how they get their magic addiction under control.

The word superior does not fall, but magic was used extensively in that nation and it was mentioned to be more magical than dalaran itself in rise of the lich king for example.

[Mace]

The creature sated their battery for power, but over time, the battery wasn't being re-charged or re-used as a means to keep it in check.

That's irrelevant to any argument on strenght.. they had power, they ahd more than enough for 8,000 years, the net gain started turning into net less much later on, this is when the dwindling starts.

But they had enough to power their city and do al lthe magic they wanted - this waht the lore tells us. it only becomes a problem much later on, when they notice the net gain turns into a net loss.

And unlike High Elves and Naga, who had to adapt and better themselves in order to survive, dire maul just remained as it was. Not getting weaker as per the residents, but not getting stronger.

You need to be a bit more specific, the lore tells us they continued to study magic - also the lore shows us that they and the high elves start at very different levels.

The Shen'dralar didn't lose 90% of their knowledge like the Hyjal survivors, they start at a different level, they are in a cushy city, not out in the sticks like the Hyjal survivors are, and the high elves who get exiled and eventually have to build up from scratch.

Furthermore, you are told they continued to study the arcane feverishly - so they gained knowledge and would have made advances, although you don't see that by the time we visit Dire Maul, because it's 1,000 years falling into ruin.

The high elves show a different type of strength, they have a different ordeal they pull through quite well, who's to say under similar settings the Shen'dralar would not have done the same or better? They come from the same night elven stock - and this is a great race - every group we play has come through a phenomenal ordeal

1. Darnassian Night elves - survived 10,000 years without their arcane magic, successfully carrying out a vigil, sacrificing their conveniences, civilization, progress, family making - all to constantly hunt demons, protect the well of eternity to ensure the legion couldn't return, for freaking 10,000 years. Not only that face near annihilation 3 times, in WC3, with the first return of the legion, then again in Cataclysm against Garrosh's horde, then again in WoT against Sylvanas' horde. Each time bounced back, each time overcame, and though they won 1 out o3 of these, they survived and came back stronger, and this is despite being grossly out numbered - they fought Garrosh, with novice mages, and sentinels - the druids were busy against Ragnaros in Hyjal, so didn't help. We are told in WoT, their most powerful and elite forces were not there for the fight, a tactical move of Sylvanas, which allowed their victory, because they largely fought less experienced night elves and civilians in the match through Ashenvale and Darkshore before burning them alive.

2. High Elves: Night elves who got wrongly exiled, and after 3,000 years without civilization and only the knowledge in their heads, survive a brutal journey being cut off from sustaining magical connection, to not only find a new home, but create a magic source, build a civilization and flourish, faced heavy opposition against trolls, in their new weakened sate, with a weaker power source, weren't able to overcome, yet found help, and beat t heir adversaries, and set up a continent wide network of protection against evil and demons that actually worked. They do so again when cut off from the Sunwell, choosing to endure the loss of the arcane but fight all forms of corruption in exile amongst other races they know they're superior too but yet help. (i.e. alliance)

3. Blood elves: After being devastated by the Scourge to near extinction, these high elves, shake it off, and take tough decisions including using fel magic to sruvive, and by survive it's rather to afford to live rather than just merely get by on whatever energy they can find (which is what those who remained high elves did in order to avoid fel corruption), blood elves make a tough moral call, and straddle the corruption of fel and the urge to over indulge on any magic -which takes incredible discipline. With far fewer survivors, enemies on all fronts, instead of give up and dwindle, they pull together and with a little help from the horde, are able to fully recalim their kingdom, and with help from the Draenei, alliance, dragons and Naaru are able to restore their sunwell and restore their kin.


4. The Shen'drlar, - were able to successfully maintain an advanced magical civilization within their city for 9,000 years, and though their power source fought back (in a sense) and they fell to ruin, when the horde came, and kicked them out, they spent 6 years in the forests got clean from addiction and demonic corruption (which wasn't fel btw), and then returned to team up with their kin to help each other out and restore their race, their city, something they refused to do (maybe out of choice or because the northern night elves were bent on banning magic) but as that was no longer necessary, they come out, start teaching the talented amongst their kin opening the door for the mage arts to return, including those who use to be top mages but put it off for 10,000 years, restoring the night elves most powerful form of magic to the Darnassian group. And it worked.

5. Nightborne, like the Shen'dralar, successfully defended their city as night elves, then erected a powerful barrier, thrived under it despite having to abuse magic to survive (we found was un-necessary0 but they made it work, the legion comes, they face the curse of the Nightwell, but rather than surrender tot he legion for power like some of them did, they instead team up with their kin and us, endure the withering till Farodin is able to help bring deliverance from that, and rise up to fight the very legion themselves, something these night elves didn't do the first time round, choosing instead to help rather than hurt.

6. The void elves: They overcome hypocritical prejudice and irrational fear from their kin to study something they believe is essential to saving their world from what is to come find the strength to overcome with help from their leader , the effect of a power that had previously caused anyone who embraced it to become mad. Despite being kicked out, and having the impossible odds of doing something never done before (i.e. resist the whispers) they do exactly that, and manage to find help and allies in a course and attitude /approach they believe in. They find like minded people in former alliance allies and despite facing ostracism for the void or for being formerly blood elves, they make it work and become a vital part of a side.

Each of these groups have shown phenomenal strength overcoming their addictions, adverse circumstance against very powerful enemies like the Legion, the trolls, the scourge, affliction, void lord influence


Trust me blizzard has ensured every playable race has phenomenal strength. And if you're elven, it doesn't matter if you're night elf/Nightborne or Thalassian elf (high, blood, void, darkfallen) you have phenomenal strength to have made such far, overcoming.


So I really don't know what you are talking about - weak in magic. The night elves fought the legion with arcane magic - this is the main magic used by the resistance that Tyrande, Illidan and Malfurion are part of - Malfurion isn't even a druid yet, the Shen'dralar are the most revered arcanists of the kaldorei empire, who never stopped studying nor practising magic, even when their city falls to ruin - imagine their knowledge - they didn't care to save their city when they were under the demons corruption, but they cared to keep their skills honed and their knowledge increased. once they get free from their corruption, they immediately try to set things right and get back their city. This is not weakness in arcane magic.. not that I'm seeing.


And if you think night elves are weak because a blood elf mage could exploit some night elf novices 10,000 years out of practice with only a few weeks of training, then you're begin foolish, as that is hardly an achievement to proud of.

And FYI, your bias and prejudice is clear, here I am extolling the strengths of all the elven races, yet you sit down and just shit on one, only caring about your faves, you are clearly biased. But then you're a fan, and most fans are.

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Well I wish they had the evidence to back it up, because not long after they returned, a Sin'dorei creation, which still ripples Dustwallow, was dropped onto Theramore.

Evidence? What evidence do you need? When blizzard ignores the night elves until Legion, and focuses on showing sin'dorei every patch doing substantial thign and ignores gnomes, night elves, draenei (till WoD) you are told.. trust me with races they don't bother to show things, they just tell you and leave it tha.

What you do not go and do, is ignore what they say and count it as irrelevant because you are not shown in game. Sheesh, you should know by now, that in game is very selective in what it shows, only choosing to focus on the story and continent at hand, and well, it just mentions the the rest in various sources, and you go figure.


Not seeing the night elves do much IN-GAME doesn't mean they're weak, it means they are neglected by game development.. big difference. Any other soruces like text, narrations, books give you information? Well, until you are shown, you need to take those at their word.

[Tanaria]

3. Blood elves: After being devastated by the Scourge to near extinction, these high elves, shake it off, and take tough decisions including using fel magic to sruvive, and by survive it's rather to afford to live rather than just merely get by on whatever energy they can find (which is what those who remained high elves did in order to avoid fel corruption), blood elves make a tough moral call, and straddle the corruption of fel and the urge to over indulge on any magic -which takes incredible discipline. With far fewer survivors, enemies on all fronts, instead of give up and dwindle, they pull together and with a little help from the horde, are able to fully recalim their kingdom, and with help from the Draenei, alliance, dragons and Naaru are able to restore their sunwell and restore their kin.

Actually, they maintained an arcane practice which sated their addiction.
High Elves didn't like said practice so they were exiled. (It wasn't fel - High Elves have no issue with using fel magic.)

Now, as you say - Alliance pushed Kil'jaedon back through the Sunwell and into the Nether, whilst Horde and Blood Elves worked on killing Kael'thas again.

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Evidence? What evidence do you need? When blizzard ignores the night elves until Legion, and focuses on showing sin'dorei every patch doing substantial thign and ignores gnomes, night elves, draenei (till WoD) you are told.. trust me with races they don't bother to show things, they just tell you and leave it tha.

What you do not go and do, is ignore what they say and count it as irrelevant because you are not shown in game. Sheesh, you should know by now, that in game is very selective in what it shows, only choosing to focus on the story and continent at hand, and well, it just mentions the the rest in various sources, and you go figure.


Not seeing the night elves do much IN-GAME doesn't mean they're weak, it means they are neglected by game development.. big difference. Any other soruces like text, narrations, books give you information? Well, until you are shown, you need to take those at their word.

I want evidence.

You should support this. I want to see nelf mages in the lore, so I can make a judgement.

And I've not said that night elves haven't done much in game...unless you think nelf mages represent the whole night elf playable race? I mean, of recent we have seen a hell of a lot of Druidic, Sentinel and Warden lore. Hell, Maiev Shadowsong is my 3rd favorite lore character.

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4. The Shen'drlar, - were able to successfully maintain an advanced magical civilization within their city for 9,000 years, and though their power source fought back (in a sense) and they fell to ruin, when the horde came, and kicked them out, they spent 6 years in the forests got clean from addiction and demonic corruption (which wasn't fel btw), and then returned to team up with their kin to help each other out and restore their race, their city, something they refused to do (maybe out of choice or because the northern night elves were bent on banning magic) but as that was no longer necessary, they come out, start teaching the talented amongst their kin opening the door for the mage arts to return, including those who use to be top mages but put it off for 10,000 years, restoring the night elves most powerful form of magic to the Darnassian group. And it worked.

Mhmm, majority of them are now 7th Legion or Kirin Tor servants

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And FYI, your bias and prejudice is clear, here I am extolling the strengths of all the elven races, yet you sit down and just shit on one, only caring about your faves, you are clearly biased. But then you're a fan, and most fans are.
.

Your biased as well.
We're all biased - I mean, for you to say "Blood Elf legacy and mastery is just not the arcane." That shows how poorly you know Sin'dorei lore.
Also - you knowing full well that whatever I say about the Blood Elf sectors, you'll just play it down as 2nd best to nelfs every instance, accept Light worship - that would go to the Draenei. Then you'd say, "Blood elves are just not a very good race. Night elves are just 10x better. Come back and play Alliance."

[Mace]

Hell, the whole High Elf exile was not because of fel. High Elves had no problem with fel magic. They took issue with manatapping the creatures, which they saw as barbaric.

You exaggerate to make your point man, you don’t need to.

The high elves had issue with siphoning magical energy from any living creature and also with siphoning fel. The whole distinction between the two groups is that one was willing to ditch their morals to sustain themselves (they called survival) the others were wiling to sit it out, wean off without doing such a thing.

FYI, the Nightborne also found siphoning magic of living creatures deplorable. These night elves were disgusted vernsuch behaviour and viewed it as degenerate. It didn’t help that the mindless withered did this.

But then those night elves found siphoning off magic leyline as bottom feeding. The standards are very different.

[Tanaria]

You exaggerate to make your point man, you don’t need to.

The high elves had issue with siphoning magical energy from any living creature and also with siphoning fel. The whole distinction between the two groups is that one was willing to ditch their morals to sustain themselves (they called survival) the others were wiling to sit it out, wean off without doing such a thing.

FYI, the Nightborne also found siphoning magic of living creatures deplorable. These night elves were disgusted vernsuch behaviour and viewed it as degenerate. It didn’t help that the mindless withered did this.

But then those night elves found siphoning off magic leyline as bottom feeding. The standards are very different.

No - read Lor'themar's short story.

The High Elf Ranger and High Elf Priestess had issue with the manatapping and siphoning arcane magic from the creatures.
They make no mention of using fel magic - I mean, we've already got High Elves using fel magic who are part of the Silver Covenant.

The exile was about mana tapping. If they had an issue with fel, they would have left as the Fel Crystals came in. They didn't. It wasn't until Rommath taught the Elves how to mana tap, did they start having issues.

And the Nightborne are aware that the Sin'dorei went through a tough time, though they don't know the finer details, they can imagine what they were. That is something that draws the Sin'dorei/Shal'dorei together.
Indeed, Thalyssra is aware that, under the guidance of Kael'thas, fel magic would have held a stronger influence over Silvermoon. With that said though, being a Warlock was and still is, a niche thing in Quel'Thalas.

[Mace]

No - read Lor'themar's short story.

The High Elf Ranger and High Elf Priestess had issue with the manatapping and siphoning arcane magic from the creatures.
They make no mention of using fel magic - I mean, we've already got High Elves using fel magic who are part of the Silver Covenant.

Sigh. Dude, when will you learn no one story or occasion has all the information.

The high elves against fel is well publicised in other stories. Just because that one doesn’t mention it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or the other sources around.

Just as with the Shen’dralar’s great expertise being mentioned in several places means this is the case. Just because you don’t see it in game in one of the story arcs doesn’t mean those sources are somehow wrong.

You should also be aware as a blood elf fan how notoriously bad blizzard are at updating existing stuff to reflect lore statements or changes.

As far as they’re concerned, if they’ve told you elsewhere or mentioned it. It is the case they don’t necessarily show or prove everything.

Do you have to wait till a character described as bad ass or great in a book is shown in game before you believe it?

That’s so silly. We all know the game doesn’t show and reflect everything and blizzard tell us not to expect it to either. The zones are fixed in the time the stories the quests tell happen, and not everything those quests or dialogues mention are shown and certainly not everything written in the lore is shown.

The exile was about mana tapping. If they had an issue with fel, they would have left as the Fel Crystals came in. They didn't. It wasn't until Rommath taught the Elves how to mana tap, did they start having issues.

Lor’thenar’s short story, like all the others, show a perspective on the events they centre around. Often unique to them. They are never the full picture, they provide additional and often unique insights.

You then combine them with other accounts both written and shown to get a fuller picture.

You don’t unilateral ditch everything else but the latest story and assume it invalidates everything else. Especially on stuff that isn’t shown.

Who taught you hermeneutics? Or how to read and interpret dude?

[Tanaria]

@Mace

I've posted on the Blood Elf discussion thread.