Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You missed the point entirely again. You as a champion couldn't beat those forces by yourself either. Thrall is a lot more powerful than you. He will smite YOU in seconds regardless of the fact he would also need help to defeat those you mentioned.
    You haven't really followed the lore. Thrall is a mortal with no powers. Moreover, I am the Netherlord of the Black Harvest and I can defeat faction leaders.
    Wrong. Horde doesn't have a Warchief anymore. They have a council. They are the puppet of nobody.
    Yet Baine stands next to the throne pretending to be Garrosh.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    No it really doesnt. Its actualy reason why this game is stilla alive. You just want to remove another RPG element for sake of covienience.
    Well for me and many others it seems it does. It's just silly at this point. It's actually a reason why people are leaving for other games where they can play whatever character they want and still play with their friends.

    You just want to keep a rpg element for the sake of inconvenience. To just add on to that, whats more RPG than you having a tauren for instance and sympathize with the Alliance and want to join them? You are arguing against your own point.
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  3. #63
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,598
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    YOu missed the point. THe claim was because there was a peace now, you can get rid of factions. No you can't because that peace is uneasy and not guaranteed. You don't get rid of WoW's core because they are currently holding an uneasy peace.
    I never said 'get rid of factions.' I said, 'adventurers who care more about results than nationalism have been shown in canon as being willing to work together with the Order Halls, and with the current status quo, the only thing preventing this from being doable ingame is Blizzard's refusal to adapt the cross-faction PvP systems used for Mercenary Mode to cross-faction PvE between Alliance and Horde adventurers."

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You missed the point entirely again. You as a champion couldn't beat those forces by yourself either. Thrall is a lot more powerful than you. He will smite YOU in seconds regardless of the fact he would also need help to defeat those you mentioned.
    Your point is strange, then, because by this logic we should have lost against Arthas, Kil'Jaeden, Archimonde, N'Zoth, C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and countless other raid bosses. But we didn't, because the adventurers banded together to defeat those enemies. The faction leaders are no different, as evidenced with Garrosh, Mekkatorque, and Jaina.

    Not true at all. All you have to do is look at Israel vs Palestine.
    Israel and Palestine don't have the history of cooperation the Alliance and Horde do, or England and France do, or France and Germany do.

    You are aware that both factions can replenish their forces right? That is what the times of peace are for. The wars didn't happen immediately back to back to back. They replenish some in between each war.
    Nowhere near enough time for an entire generation to come of age has happened between any war since the breakdown of the post-Hyjal ceasefire in Classic, never mind between every war. Yet somehow, the story keeps insisting we find ways to pull new armies' worth of conscripts and volunteer soldiers out of thin air in order to maintain the illusion that the Alliance and Horde are global superpowers and not desperately clinging on to exhausted and overextended power structures--explicitly noting the lack of able-bodied soldiers to go around was a major plot point in Vanilla and the reason adventurers came in such high demand, as the Player Character was sent all over the place to help secure the territories immediately surrounding their racial capital due to what troops were available being sent off to foreign theaters and border clashes.

    The main driving storyline in the four human territories of Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge, and Duskwood was that Prestor's machinations left them severely underdefended, and neither settlement could afford to send their militias to help the other. Yet somehow, immediately after the Burning Legion's defeat, which came on the heels of massive losses at the Broken Shore and, canonically, large-scale clashes with one another, the Alliance and Horde are able to field massive armies, and once again deplete themselves so badly that by the attack on Dazar'Alor, they're down to the last of the trained military personnel and civilian conscripts were next on the chopping block.

    Yet, somehow, they'll magically have enough troops for the next war, despite the timeskips never being more than a year or two--nowhere near enough for an entire generation to come of age unless humans hit maturity at the time real-world humans are learning to shit on the big boy toilet.

    Wrong. Horde doesn't have a Warchief anymore. They have a council. They are the puppet of nobody.
    They have a council, the majority of whom are very well-disposed toward coalitions with the Alliance and the de facto speaker of whom, Baine Bloodhoof (as evidenced by both his status as the Horde emissary to Stormwind as well as apparently-unilateral authority to induct the vulpera) is a close personal friend to the Alliance's de facto leader, Anduin Wrynn (whom the member nations of the Alliance are by and large content to allow to direct their troops, barring those who've rallied behind Tyrande).
    Last edited by Thage; 2020-06-20 at 11:14 PM.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  4. #64
    Stood in the Fire WFD1992's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    North America
    Posts
    394
    They aren't saying "a Horde player should be able to walk into Stormwind without be harassed (or vice versa for Orgrimmar)", they just want to be able to team up with people cross faction for PvE content. Why the hell is that a problem? Also, just because the name is "Warcraft" doesn't mean it has to focus on the Alliance and Horde conflict. Let it die.

  5. #65
    I want murloc for new race!!!!

  6. #66
    Keep the factions but make it so any race can choose either faction. It seems very weird to say that a whole race would just move in lockstep like a hive mind, especially when we see so many examples to the contrary (Pandaren, High/Blood Elves, Alteraci, etc.).

  7. #67
    People trying to debate the lore arguments are missing the point. Lore doesn't matter. It's a design decision and imo a good one at that. The 2 factions have always been at the core of WoW and it should remain so. If you want to play with anyone maybe try Call of Duty or something, though even there you probably can't play with your ally friends as a nazi, so that might not work out.

  8. #68
    That core was maybe cool 10 years ago, now it's artificially dividing playerbase so if your friends invites you to WoW you basically have no choice but go wherever they are.

    And it's actually the other way around. It matters from lore point, but doesn't matter (and doesn't make sense) from gameplay point of view.
    Especially not when you can play in BGs as opposing faction.

    Why the hell players have to be bound by factions lol?

  9. #69
    Brewmaster Whitedragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Definitely not behind you
    Posts
    1,358
    Ya at this stage in the game I'm way past the faction divide. have a good split of friends who play on one side or the other, all of them are nice people, and it would be really cool to join the sets up for group content. We can still have our pvp, be it small scale skirmishes between differing interest groups, or maybe really go above and beyond and make it FFA (bye bye faction imbalance, now it's true PvP).

    As for PvE imagine how much more story content single side players will get when they don't have to make 2 sets of stories that people will only see half of... end up on the poorer side of a super lopsided server? don't matter now you got both sides. Really want to play that fem troll but your husband plays a dwarf hunter? no problem go have fun! And most of all we don't have to worry as much about player decay because we just doubled your available player roster.

    Yes yes we will get the "But ma WARcraft!", but we have had nothing but war in about every expansion so far, we don't have to be at war with each other (Even with this we can have small scale fighting between AvH or even other groups like Nightelf+Tauren VS Goblins+Gnomes). Also of note the game really hasn't been built around AvH (Sans BfA but look how popular that story was, and Cata+MoP where the moral of the story was fighting together is better...) since warcraft 2 and even then they started experimenting with the idea of having Alliances form cross faction.

    If nothing else let cross partying happen in the open world so I can save that Orc warlock with a lay on hands when he/she pulls a little to much....
    Last edited by Whitedragon; 2020-06-21 at 04:55 AM.

  10. #70
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,598
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    People trying to debate the lore arguments are missing the point. Lore doesn't matter. It's a design decision and imo a good one at that. The 2 factions have always been at the core of WoW and it should remain so. If you want to play with anyone maybe try Call of Duty or something, though even there you probably can't play with your ally friends as a nazi, so that might not work out.
    It's a pretty crappy design decision, honestly, especially this far into the game's life cycle. Strictly from a design standpoint, removing the faction barrier in PvE would solve the oft-mentioned problem with the rapid decline of raiding on the Alliance and do so pretty much overnight, as Alliance guilds wouldn't feel pressured to transfer to the Horde where the increasing majority of endgame raiders have been consolidating over the last few expansions. It would also reduce queues all around as you bring in more tanks and healers available to every dungeon group. It would also open up new metas for Mythic raiding and Mythic+ dungeons.

    Even if you want to discount lore (and the lore's there for it, unless you just absolutely refuse to see the forest for the trees with the last two patches of BFA), there is effectively no solid design argument except Blizzard's own misguided stubbornness.

    Nobody is saying 'get rid of the factions.' What we're asking for is for a subplot that has gone precisely nowhere in 15 years, and will continue to go nowhere for the next 15, to stop hamstringing PvE gameplay and roleplaying freedom. Especially if they're going to keep writing the faction war to be as retarded as humanly possible every time it heats up and takes focus away from the metaplot they've spent 15 years building up and progressing.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  11. #71
    I don't really know why they are still supporting this horde vs alliance.
    Alliance raiding is a meme at this point
    c

  12. #72
    It will happen, but not in the way you think. I think it's going to be similar to BoD, where you temporarily switch to whichever faction you partied with.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    It will happen, but not in the way you think. I think it's going to be similar to BoD, where you temporarily switch to whichever faction you partied with.
    I doubt anyone thought it would be any different. Since you know, this worked exactly the same as mercenary mode:
    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/pvp/mercenary-mode

    Players will automatically have their race changed into one appropriate for the opposite faction which means their model, including tooltips, will be completely changed and unrecognizable as being "disguised".

  14. #74
    I have said since cata-ish that i think that the factions should remain, WPVP should remain, and BGS should remain, but there is no logical reason at all to stop people from each faction grouping up and playing together. I honestly believe it is one of the main factors holding wow back - its an archaic and outdated idea that adds absolutely nothing to the game, but certainly removes countless possibilities.

    Absolutely nothing needs to change from a PvP standpoint, the faction leaders, the stories, nothing needs to change. But there is absolutely no reason to restrict people from opposing factions grouping up to fight together against world ending threats.

    IMO, its yet another example of Blizzard flat out refusing to adapt and change, and being so stubborn it hurts them, and in turn, the playerbase. Hell, even from a financial standpoint its a VERY clever move - they keep putting barriers up to restrict our play, thinking that it will infact result in INCREASED play. For example, i main alliance atm, and have not unlocked all the allied races for horde. If those races were unlocked, i absolutely 100%, without a doubt would still be actively lvling those classes for the armor sets etc. I also have multiple alliance max level toons for certain classes (2x 120 pally, 4 x 120 warlock etc) and i absolutely would xfer some of those to horde if i new i could still play with friends.

    All these restrictions dont encourage playtime, they discourage it, and i hope Acti-Blizz realise that before its too late.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I doubt anyone thought it would be any different. Since you know, this worked exactly the same as mercenary mode:
    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/pvp/mercenary-mode
    Merc mode is a perfect example of how this absolutely can / does occur in lore. I dont think players need a silly mask or gimmicky race swap mechanic to impliment this though, just literally allow players to group with the other faction for most/all pve content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WFD1992 View Post
    They aren't saying "a Horde player should be able to walk into Stormwind without be harassed (or vice versa for Orgrimmar)", they just want to be able to team up with people cross faction for PvE content. Why the hell is that a problem? Also, just because the name is "Warcraft" doesn't mean it has to focus on the Alliance and Horde conflict. Let it die.
    It died a decade ago, and i think MOST people realise that.

  15. #75
    After reading all of the replies here, I have some faith restored.

    Enjoyment is not considered when weighing in on the hackery of Blizzard's storytelling since 2004 but this...does put a smile on my face.

    Yeah, please. Glad at least part of the community is getting the picture, finally. Does it take the unnecessary homogeneity that already exists between the two factions and worsens it? Yeah. Does it undermine a lot of the DNA of prior stories and themes in Warcraft lore? Yup.

    And I give zeroooo fuuuuucks. No more arbitrarily split developer efforts. No more one game for the time investment of two. No more completely misleading and inconsistent depiction of events to make your faction look better (lookin' at YOU, ICC Airships and War of Thorns). Just a bunch of people being forced into a writer's room to make interesting internal and interpersonal conflict without the lazy crutch of enforced tribalism to endure the status quo like the absolute shitheap that was BFA. Because if they REALLY cared about factional conflict, they'd have more well defined what the factions meant years ago rather than reducing them to a t-shirt logo with more elves.

    But failing that, even non-canon cross-faction play is acceptable.

  16. #76
    I should also add, if they reworked the community feature, you could easily have a faction guild, and a cross faction guild.

  17. #77
    Dreadlord Pheraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Feralas, Mount Hyal
    Posts
    967
    I became torn on this topic. There were days where I would have agreed 100% but now... after bfa.... there were things I liked (as an idea). Like warfronts (yes!) and faction assaults...
    On the other side legion worked wonderful without this. I am not sure. I just don't like horde aestetics, races and lore at all, so I hated WoD. Also I am not sure if I would welcome forsaken in alliance cities, and stinky orcs =)
    If they would implement the cross faction raiding as a system feature, like you can invite people into raids and they get temp. the faction of the raid leader, I think everyone would win. I think we should just keep the cities separated.
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Qil | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle | Farodin - My personal Kaldorei army <3

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    If they would implement the cross faction raiding as a system feature, like you can invite people into raids and they get temp. the faction of the raid leader, I think everyone would win. I think we should just keep the cities separated.
    That was original community idea, nobody wants to xfaction capical cities. At least not to the extent of having x-faction pve groups for dungs and raids.

  19. #79
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    hungary
    Posts
    6,760
    I agree, gief cross faction pve ASAP.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    No. Faction war is the core of Warcraft.

    Just play alliance if you want to play with your alliance friends.
    sais who?seriously who is forcing them?the faction conflict makes ZERO sense,its worse writing than the last season of game of thrones,they should atleast let characters desert and join the other faction

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •