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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    The Short answer is: "It depends how complicated the software you use is"

    The long answer:

    Apple is developing an emulation layer to try and ease the transition, however there's a very large possibility that the emulation layer won't be able to handle anything overly complex without slowing your system to an absolute crawl. Apple has said that they're going to produce x86 Macs for a while, also to ease the transition, but unless the developer of your software releases an ARM version, there will come a day where you'll have to be running on years old hardware, just to make it work.

    Given how you struggled with the 32-64bit transition(which is orders of magnitude less disruptive than an x86-ARM transition), you've got grim times coming.
    Ok, thanks for the reply. Will give this some thought.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Is 27% performance penalty really "absolute crawl" on iPad Pro cpu from 2018?
    I'm going to need a source on that 27%, because there's no possible way that the performance penalty is the same hard number for every single app. Even 27% is too much, especially for workloads that push the specs to the absolute maximum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    The primary problem comes in translating all the code and apps they have for x86 right now into ARM-compatible code. That's going to be a huge undertaking that even Microsoft failed at. Granted, Apple does do a better job on their OS than Microsoft, and care a lot more about the user experience, but it's not going to be easy, cheap, or fast.
    Apple have nuked a processor family before. They'll do it again.

    "Make your applications work under our new processor, or lose our customer base" tends to be how they do it. I'm sure they'll try some automated fudging as well, but at the end of the day it's going to require Mac software devs to at least recompile for the new CPU, and probably changing any hand optimised assembly bits to make it work. They've got two years to do it, so I'd imagine any active devs have plans already. I'd expect the likes of Unreal and Unity to just add an option for the new architecture. If you're one of the dozen people playing WoW on a Mac, you can probably say goodbye to that...

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Why are people having discussions about iOS v Android, Alfa Romeo vs Volkswagen, etc, is beyond me.
    iOS V Android is pretty easy. They offer different features and experiences. Android is built on being open and customizable, iOS is built around being tightly controlled and "just working" (Ugh, I hate that phrasing, but it is apt). Some prefer one, some prefer the other.
    As for car fights.. I don't get that either. Is it comfy to sit in and drive? Cool, good enough, get the cheaper one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    Apple have nuked a processor family before. They'll do it again.

    "Make your applications work under our new processor, or lose our customer base" tends to be how they do it. I'm sure they'll try some automated fudging as well, but at the end of the day it's going to require Mac software devs to at least recompile for the new CPU, and probably changing any hand optimised assembly bits to make it work. They've got two years to do it, so I'd imagine any active devs have plans already. I'd expect the likes of Unreal and Unity to just add an option for the new architecture. If you're one of the dozen people playing WoW on a Mac, you can probably say goodbye to that...
    Any Mac-exclusives will do it in a heartbeat, obviously. Unreal and Unity might add support, but I very much doubt it'll be as supported or optimized as x86, probably just a straight recompile and if it works, good enough. Same with EA and Frostbite, and most of the big engines really. Maybe if there's one where for some reason 90% of the install base is on Mac, it'll be flipped so x86 gets fuck all, but I doubt that, at least for game engines. Any small, or custom engines will likely get shafted. WoW might get a port, but I'm not sure how quick it will be, or even if it will at all. Depends on how many players play on Mac vs Windows/Linux

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    I'm going to need a source on that 27%, because there's no possible way that the performance penalty is the same hard number for every single app. Even 27% is too much, especially for workloads that push the specs to the absolute maximum.
    I'm sorry, what? You quote stuff out of your ass, then I tell you how leaked developer's kit performs with geekbench x86 version vs geekbench arm version on ipad pro (same cpu, same tests), then you ask for source on said leaks that are fucking posted on every tech news website?..

    I'm out. First CPUs might not be the best, but... I thought Intel was the shit with best CPUs and no one could touch them, but then AMD without money (compared to intel) quite easily catched up with Intel after a decade of sucking. If poor AMD can do it, certainly a 1.5 trillion company can do that easily too (intel is worth only 0.24 trillion, amd only 0.006 trillion).

    Regarding GPUs - they will most likely continue to bundle AMD ones, I doubt Apple will dabble in desktop GPUs... For now.
    Last edited by ldev; 2020-06-30 at 04:08 PM.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  6. #86
    iOS + Android native dev here, chiming in with some thoughts…

    For most reasonably built small-to-medium size apps, the transition to ARM on Apple platforms will be dead simple. Like tick a checkbox and submit an update simple. Practically all iOS and Mac apps that are known for being well made will run natively on Apple Silicon right away. Most command line developer tools and IDEs will also make the jump to ARM native pretty easily/quickly.

    The remaining question marks are:
    • Spaghetti code behemoth-horrors like Photoshop
    • Bizarrely built small-to-medium size apps

    For the first, Adobe and Microsoft have already committed, so the rest will likely follow.

    The second consists of oddball devs who either have severe "not in house" syndrome (e.g. doing whacky things like building a UI framework from scratch). I haven no sympathy for this group — by not using either OS provided SDKs or third party cross platform frameworks, they're making life harder for themselves.

    There's also a few devs who expect the code they originally wrote for Windows 95 and System 7.5 to work forever with practically no work, adaptation, or other modifications which is frankly unrealistic and places a massive burden on OS vendors and all users of the OS. The absence of these apps will leave a hole for a little bit, but someone else will come to fill them pretty quickly.

  7. #87
    I didn't reread thread again so sorry if this was posted before but I just noticed it in the SL strings they posted on front page:
    "An ARM64_BUILD string was added"

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