Justicar's Vengeance in Shadowlands

[datcd03]

Why is this talent still wasting a slot in Shadowlands for Ret pallies? It's got to be one of the most unused and awful talents in the entire game and having it take a spot for the third expansion in a row is pretty pathetic.


P.S. I miss Long Arm of the Law as a mobility option

[Unholyground]

Why is this talent still wasting a slot in Shadowlands for Ret pallies? It's got to be one of the most unused and awful talents in the entire game and having it take a spot for the third expansion in a row is pretty pathetic.


P.S. I miss Long Arm of the Law as a mobility option

I agree, I miss the old long arm of the law that merged with pursuit of justice baked in so you had the base 15% plus the extra from long arm.

I will say the Night Fae look to have the best mobility of all the covenants because of the crazy low CD and duration being 12 seconds. I know people will mention a couple others but they are all 1min or more CD which is meh.

[Demsi]

Why is this talent still wasting a slot in Shadowlands for Ret pallies? It's got to be one of the most unused and awful talents in the entire game and having it take a spot for the third expansion in a row is pretty pathetic.


P.S. I miss Long Arm of the Law as a mobility option

There was a short moment in legion where justicar's vengeance was good in pvp, and it gave crazy good sustain if you got consistent divine purpose procs, however it got nerfed hard and it's been awful ever since.

[Sigxy]

JV used to be really worth it for some time in Legion. Yeah, it cost 5 HoPo but it still did some nice damage. Less than 2 Templar's Verdicts - but with the effect of dealing more damage on a stunned target did bring up the damage to be worth it!

Now... absolutely not. At the moment I can only see some use for it in PvP which is still REALLY limited and makes me wonder why they don't just make it a PvP talent instead of wasting a slot here. Kind of like Eye for an Eye to be honest, you're just never going to use it outside of PvP.

[Ryuji]

Both the current and SL versions of Justicar's Vengeance scale off 150% of attack power at 5 holy power cost it looks like, while Templar's Verdict is 194%, at 3 holy power cost, while also capable of being influenced by the Righteous Verdict talent for even more Templar's Verdict damage.

Imo the scaling of JV needs to be 250-300%(if note more) to make it worth it. Regardless of its scaling, it needs to beat TV in damage in every circumstance to be worth using. I liked using it with Divine Purpose procs before getting the Echo trait in Legion but eh.

[Razion]

I liked using this with Divine Purpose as well. There's no purpose to this now that all the damage is locked behind stuns, basically relegating this to a PvP only talent. It's useless against bosses that are immune to stuns. Justicar's Vengeance isn't even AoE, so it wouldn't even be useful on large trash packs in M+. There is the nice bonus of Wake of Ashes being baseline so if it stuns aberrations and undead you'll have that bonus there but still only on hitting individually powerful trash mobs you need to stun anyway, in which case you double down with Fist of Justice for reduced Hammer CD and just hit Hammer of Justice when you can to make a useless talent only normal for those specific situations when you can stun one mob - but there's still the problem of having to waste stuns and globals as a set-up to even make your damage happen in the first place. It's not like you're getting passive stuns by hitting a crit or something to make use of the ability. And even if you could reliably get those stuns out of rotational ability crits like off Divine Storm or something, and Justicar's Vengeance was AoE, the stuns would still have diminishing returns which over time makes the ability worthless and still doesn't solve the problem of this talent being worthless on bosses that are immune to stuns anyway. The stun requirement for this ability to do full damage has to go.

[Sigxy]

Imagine if they just boosted the damage to be 200% attack power for 5 Holy Power (compared to Templar's Verdict's 194% for 3 Holy Power), BUT... that 50% extra bonus damage triggers not just from stunned targets, but also from the Judgement effect (together with the bonus effect it usually gives). Meaning you can't just go and spam it but then each time you use Judgement you have a reason to pop it and means you can actually use it on bosses.

[Seratox]

Imagine if they just boosted the damage to be 200% attack power for 5 Holy Power (compared to Templar's Verdict's 194% for 3 Holy Power), BUT... that 50% extra bonus damage triggers not just from stunned targets, but also from the Judgement effect (together with the bonus effect it usually gives). Meaning you can't just go and spam it but then each time you use Judgement you have a reason to pop it and means you can actually use it on bosses.

TV still wins in that scenario for damage per Holy Power spent.

360% JV is 72% per Holy Power spent. (5 holy power)

360.8% is TV with Judgement and then two-thirds of a non-judgement TV. (5 holy power)

Only real practical use for JV is Divine Purpose.

Personally, I'd like to see JV:
*Replace TV
*Same damage as TV
*Cost 3 Holy Power
*50% healing down from 100%
*25% damage bonus in stuns down from 50.

Would make t much more desirable. Really the 5 HP cost is why no one takes it.

[Sigxy]

TV still wins in that scenario for damage per Holy Power spent.

360% JV is 72% per Holy Power spent. (5 holy power)

360.8% is TV with Judgement and then two-thirds of a non-judgement TV. (5 holy power)

Only real practical use for JV is Divine Purpose.

Personally, I'd like to see JV:
*Replace TV
*Same damage as TV
*Cost 3 Holy Power
*50% healing down from 100%
*25% damage bonus in stuns down from 50.

Would make t much more desirable. Really the 5 HP cost is why no one takes it.

TV would definitely still win in terms of damage per holy power spent, absolutely. It's more about making JV actually useful for it's function: Heal damage done while also not crippling your damage TOO much - and making sure you can't just go and spam it. This way if you're fighting a boss in PvE and some AoE happened, you can heal yourself up. That and if you have something that gives you a boost 'per holy power spent' (rather than each holy power spending ability), it helps to give 5 points worth of it.

[Swnem]

Man... i just want the AoE word of glory to stay. JV could be sacrificed cause it has no use. Even PvP'ers will prefer a more reliable too that doesn't have such a high cost.

Just, the AoE word of glory has saved so many a dungeon run that it really makes no sense for them to remove it. It made me feel like i could support my party for once. Even with the gcd, the cd and hp cost, it was worthwhile. Why remove such an interesting and fun spell? One has to be a blizz dev.

[Sphynnxx]

Talent is liquid sh*t... absolute waste of a slot.

I’d much rather it was a CD based/On Use ability that made your next TV against a stunned target heal you for X and do extra damage… just as an example.

Or as they've removed the AoE factor of WoG, just make that the talent for it.

[morislayer]

It was very good at one point in pvp. In fact I recall never losing a duel during the patch until it got nerfed.

What makes no sense to me is that it has a stun component which makes it seem like it should be in the PVP tree. In fact, I would even say it could be a direct replacement to TV (in pvp only) for the 3 HP gaining the stun and healing.

[docterfreeze]

JV + divine purpose was one of the most fun talent combinations out there. I'd hate to see it disappear. Just buff it, move it to a damage talent tier and nerf the healing if need be. The most interesting part of the ability imo is that it turns HoJ into a burst window in PvP.