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  1. #41
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Classic and retail are apples and oranges as far as balance goes.....
    You miss the point. I wasn't making any claims about Classic's balance. I was pointing out that there's proof, right there, that playing a spec that blows at something (in this case levelling) is a lot less fun (for most people) and efficient than playing one that's good at that thing, even if both can clear that content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Havoc is pretty mediocre in raids now. For its supposed opness - it suffers from one big drawback, only one dps spec by which it lives and dies. If it happens to be mediocre then it's the end of the road.
    Right now it's showing as right about where it should be - 12/24 DPS, 6/13 melee. This puts it well ahead of Paladins and Monks (who also have only one DPS spec), and all Rogues, and both Shaman DPS specs. It's true that by class DH isn't super-high, but by melee classes it's also right in the middle. However, DH also brings tons of raid utility, and in particular if you don't have a DH tank, the Havoc DPSer brings that +5% magic taken debuff and that means that 5% all the spell damage the raid does come from having a DH in the raid, meaning that the DH counts for at least another half of a DPSer just from that.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    It's true that by class DH isn't super-high, but by melee classes it's also right in the middle.
    There are more factors to take in here then "havoc is bad literally right this second".

    If you look at pre-nerf and post nerf 1 Havoc was parsing proportionally higher, which would suggest it simply doesn't scale well with corruptions as opposed to the spec being weak in of itself

    Of the 10 tiers it has existed for it's only been in the bottom 50% twice, that's got to be a better strike rate than any other spec.

    Even when it's performing poorly it has among the highest representation of any spec.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Right now it's showing as right about where it should be - 12/24 DPS, 6/13 melee. This puts it well ahead of Paladins and Monks (who also have only one DPS spec), and all Rogues, and both Shaman DPS specs. It's true that by class DH isn't super-high, but by melee classes it's also right in the middle. However, DH also brings tons of raid utility, and in particular if you don't have a DH tank, the Havoc DPSer brings that +5% magic taken debuff and that means that 5% all the spell damage the raid does come from having a DH in the raid, meaning that the DH counts for at least another half of a DPSer just from that.
    I did say mediocre didn't I?

    The only real utility for raid it brings is 5% debuff. The rest is just fluff.

  4. #44
    Havoc would be in a better position if we weren't playing casino for good ranks #wishiwaspartoftheamponlysquad

    And like most patches where gear and stuff like corruptions it is skewed in the favour of people who can make the biggest uses out of the power imbalances. Rogue would probably be top 5 dps on pure stats alone outside corruptions.

    But every tier I wish the gap between classes were between 10k~ dps of the bottom to the best and then classes themselves exceeding massively on fights such as fire mage/dh on hivemind etc but that is merely a pipe dream and FOTM will forever be a huge thing
    Last edited by OFiveNine; 2020-07-01 at 08:20 PM.

  5. #45
    The balance is fine. You can play almost any spec in the game and clear all the content you want.
    Unless you want ridiculous high keys, 20+ or 25+.
    The game doesn't even support any achievements for key levels that high, the highest M+ content recognized in achievement system is +15.
    And any spec in the game can clear +15.

    The last time i remember truly unplayable specs was WOD patch 6.2
    Survival Hunter was doing like 50% less damage than BM/MM. Nobody was playing this spec in 6.2, it was vanilla WoW level bad.

  6. #46
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athulua View Post
    The last time i remember truly unplayable specs was WOD patch 6.2
    Elemental early this expansion. Arcane also. Fixed, by adding silly powerful azerite traits, thus increasing the difficulty in getting decent gear and upgrading it. Great game design.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I did say mediocre didn't I?

    The only real utility for raid it brings is 5% debuff. The rest is just fluff.
    I always looked at us Demon Hunters more like Fluffy Hunters anyway.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Let loot be loot.

  8. #48
    With corruptions, you can rolfstomp the raid with quite a large range of setups since the dps check is laughable now.

    Regarding balance, it's hard to tell as it's not really the class balance that is broken per se but how class do scale with the current borrowed power.

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