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  1. #121
    Bloodsail Admiral Narwhalosh Whalescream's Avatar
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    They could move into Goldshire! They'd get a lot of tax revenue!

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Guru View Post
    Can we bring back Ragnaros so he can torch Hyjal with the remaining night elves there? Inlcuding Malfurion and Tyrande.
    lol ragnaros is a pussy, just get a few horde catapults and that place will be lit!

  3. #123
    Herald of the Titans Nordheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    lol ragnaros is a pussy, just get a few horde catapults and that place will be lit!
    Well, it'd still be cooler with Ragnaros doing it! D:

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggsy View Post
    I won't hold my breath but it would be really cool to see a phased Hyjal that's fixed and no longer burning. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see a city because that would take YEARS to build... unless maybe that's the time shit people think Ion was suggesting? I don't know. RP servers are gonna be hella pissed if suddenly their characters age 20+ years coming out of the expansion.
    I don't think you need 20+ years to build a city in Warcraft. Night elves can regrow trees instantly. Goblins have the town-in-a-box technology, allowing them to build instantly, blood elves also rebuild Silvermoon in extremely short time, using magic. There is also always possibility of time skip, so building brand new city is possible.

  5. #125
    Scarab Lord Auxis's Avatar
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    Setting up your remaining peoples around a magical font of water/god-blood sounds like a really good idea.

    Brilliant, in fact. Can't think of a possible bad situation to arise from this.

    Nothing bad involving this kind of lake and civilization has happened before.
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Setting up your remaining peoples around a magical font of water/god-blood sounds like a really good idea.

    Brilliant, in fact. Can't think of a possible bad situation to arise from this.

    Nothing bad involving this kind of lake and civilization has happened before.
    The well is contained by the Tree about it.



    Sure all of this does not mean that they setup their main hub around Nordrassil in the future but with the current info it seems the most likely place.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Setting up your remaining peoples around a magical font of water/god-blood sounds like a really good idea.

    Brilliant, in fact. Can't think of a possible bad situation to arise from this.

    Nothing bad involving this kind of lake and civilization has happened before.
    Erm, you do realise they've been concentrated around those magical waters for 15,000 years, and it is in fact the most consistent thing about the centre of their race?

    Teldrassil and Darnassus was the first time in 15k years they moved away from being mainly around that well.

    So we shouldn't presume moving back to Nordrassil after 20 years away as some indication they are going back to abusive reckless use of power as its got nothing to do with how they abused magic under Azshara's reign, presumably they've proved that abuse is well behind them and paid for it with 10,000 years of successful Long Vigil.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    The well is contained by the Tree about it.



    Sure all of this does not mean that they setup their main hub around Nordrassil in the future but with the current info it seems the most likely place.
    Is containment an issue? The tree only hides the power signature by regulating ebb and flow... the Well was never a disaster ( it made them and used to create a wonder civilization (pre-sundering) as well as the power to boost nature's healing and growth ( Long Vigil)), what was disastrous was the Legion. It's not the power that was bad but abuse of if and those who would seek it for abuse.

    You can use power well without abusing in if you've got the heart for it, discipline etc, presumably that's one of the benefits of having religion and philosophies like balance and harmony... they keep you humble, disciplined and accountable.

    I think I understand now. If the Highborne and night elves are ever to succeed using the Well and the arcane without spiralling out of control like last time, they needed a strong priesthood and druidic order values in their society instilling discipline, balance, accountability, humility..

    @Mace , is this what you were trying to say in the other thread?That they have the things in place now to go much further in all aspects of the arcane, nature and Elune in a united nation than they would in the segregated clumps they lived in the previous era??
    Last edited by EnigmAddict; 2020-06-28 at 12:22 PM.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    The night elf capital was Darnassus and this city had its own architectural style characteristic of the night elf culture! I don't know why you like to name Auberdine

    this was the architectural style of the capital race capital








    The night elf will not change the way they build their buildings, that is their culture. shendrelar may have a district with empire-like buildings
    This only one side of Darnassus. There was also marble temple, a grand promenade at the heart of the city, also marble, and numerous bridges crossing the waters around temple gardens... and Darnassus was built in times when druidism was one of the most revered themes of their culture. Night elves changed their attitude since then. They allowed highborne back, so it's not that hard to imagine their new city will again mix those various themes. They have more reasons to do so now.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    This only one side of Darnassus. There was also marble temple, a grand promenade at the heart of the city, also marble, and numerous bridges crossing the waters around temple gardens... and Darnassus was built in times when druidism was one of the most revered themes of their culture. Night elves changed their attitude since then. They allowed highborne back, so it's not that hard to imagine their new city will again mix those various themes. They have more reasons to do so now.
    Exactly, I pointed out to him that he conveniently left out the heart of the city which is marble and pre-sundering style - but it seems to be it is horde elf fans that have the hardest time accepting the night elves arcane side, pre-sundering side or Highborne, as well ass building anything like Suramar or Zin'Azshari - almost as if they are trying to make it seem like it's not night elven

    They use the long vigil wrongly to make that point (ignoring it's over,) and the arcane ban wrongly too (as if to say night elves can't or never will use the arcane). I can only conclude they find the pre-sundering side of the night elves attractive (clearly Suramar is nice) and because it is horde don't want the actual kaldorei of whom it is a part off to have any of it - they want the entire night elf arcane legacy to be exclusively horde, jump over tot he horde like the High elves were taken over.

    I find this very disturbing, after greatly analysing and exploring the night elves, and coming to like both their eras and the uniqueness son what their arcane/nature duality is (an d it's one of the lore's best and most unique renditions of classical fantasy races) I've spent enough time writing about it to show them how very integrated these parts of the night elves are to the forest/Elune culture and what it would mean.

    A new city could very well have both aspects to it, but is unlikely. I can understand why Darnassus had wood homes in it from a lore point of view - the new city is built, without major arcane magical help, not enough resources to do everything in marble, so wood is used. I can also see lorewise why druids would prefer not to do this to trees.

    The way they wrote druids and Malfurion for wow, they do minimal co-opting of trees for homes or features, they'd rather save a tree than convert it into a house, they'd rather live under trees and in caves than disturb them for homes especially as they consider them living organisms too, and sentient, only asking them to sacrifice and give of themselves in time of great peril for a greater cause - and that's not the comfort or aesthetic of a race. They also prefer simplicity on their person and the thing s they build choosing instead to mould the beauty of nature according to Azeroths's dream, which they find more fascinating than anything else.

    So I don't think druids would want to use wood nor would they be the architects of a new city. I think they'd want the Highborne to use arcane magic to from new homes for a population centre out of other materials that can't get up and walk or think or are alive..I think they would help the Highborne weave nature and life into them, but the design would be night elven pre-sundering in a new city. The reason Darnassus was not is because it's an earlier model and the night elves' first attempt at building a city in 10k years, it's 20 years since, for a lot of techniques to be honed in, new night elven groups like the Highborne have returned, bringing a lot of expertise etc.

    Finally, I find the pre-sundering architecture stunning and beautiful, why wouldn't I want that for a night elf city? Zin'Azshari but with gardens and flowers galore, nature alive in the city, parks amid the beautiful elegant structures?

    Druids may care only for the beauty of nature, but they're about a third of the night elves, other night elves, like priests, Highborne, craftsmen and tradesmen care for beauty too, and love nature as they do, they can't craft/grow nature, so their beauty comes out in their workmanship, in the ornate temples, the buildings, their clothes and dresses . The druid ones don't care for such things, the closer to nature they are the better, because they find the beauty in a flower more elegant than the garb of the finest tailors, but that's the druid, that's certainly not the priest or the tailor or the Highborne. Nor does loving beautiful buildings, and craft work somehow mean you don't love nature - you do, you just have other loves and other skills.

    there is a gross failure to understand night elves beyond druidism, but that's because these horde fans are horde fans, and don't care that much - they chose the horde elves because they liked that better and felt it superior. All they saw of night elves were forests and ruins, but blood elves came with a great city and powerful magic and they switched in an instance. They didn't realise that night elves had even greater a civilization and wielded even greater magics, and that it was only preventing the legion's return that had stopped this, nothing else, not hate or phobia or anything like that - so WC3's end automatically implied that the night elves' great works would return. Darnassus was first fruits, and we saw a full version of what they could do in Suramar, the Zin'Azshari, we had Highborne return, no longer addicted or corrupt, having learnt a vital lesson and now working alongside the night elves.

    they gave up the night elves not understanding them, and now they work hard to oppose any development of the arcane side of the night elves. They accuse my voice revealing tis aspect as advocating for night elves to become like blood elves - I respond, it is blood elves that are like this side of night elves, and no, I am advocating for all the sides of the night elves to be shown, a night elf civilization city is not mutually exclusive with nature love, and a city doesn't mean night elves don't have a strong druidic core and forest cultures. Forest livelihoods are for forest, things are and always will be different in a city built by a race that has done this sort of thing to great levels.


    There lore hasn't set them up to be arcane hating, civilization hating elves at all, but has put them in a position that they are able to have both forest and city, arcane nature, in harmony and balance, without abuse in a way that they didn't have at the height of either of the past 2 eras. Night elves are a much bigger race than blood elves, there is enough room for both arcane and nature, city civilizations and forest ones, side by side, and areas where t hey mix, and where they are segregated. This I their purpose of the original race.

    I go into a much deeper dive here. In the topic: Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider
    I know you've been there, but anyone else reading this here, this topic really deep dives this aspect of the night elves - but it is aimed at showing there is a balance, and that both arcane and nature are core parts of the night elves - it doesn't try to make night elves only about the arcane at all, but it is very insistent on the relevance and core part of the Night elves, that the arcane, their pre-sundering history, civilization etc all are to them - and this is because some people who respond there felt that this was not part of the night elves anymore, that it was there only for the Blood elves (their elves) and it has nothing to do with current night elves - I prove and show throughout the topic how this is actually a misconception and not what the night elf lore shows about the night elf race. The arguments and discussion focus more on those aspects because these are the ones the majority horde fans responding there have trouble with (and some 1 alliance fan named Tuor). Much of this is because blizzard actually showed much more of the forest side of the night elves with the night elf model, and wrote a lot more about the arcane side of the night elves as in wow as they developed, night elves were largely neglected in favour of the horde and horde races, but they continued the story about them through a stunning total of 6 novels (only humans and orcs come close to those numbers)

    Highborne and arcane are not evils in to the night elves. One are people who misled the people, but not all, many have come round. The other is the powerful force that forged the night elves and has done much good, it's their misuse of it that drew the Legion, the fault of the past lies with their attitude and the legion, not actually with the arcane or being great wielders of it. Azshara towards the end of her reign twisted and misused everything she touched. Night elves always used nature, in the height of the re-sundering era, although they commanded ancients to do it, while most of them wielded the arcane, since nature practice on them had waned, still we see loads of ancient trees in Dire Maul, a Highborne city - like how arcane amgic was abused by the Queen in her addiction, so to was nature magic - not understanding you don't force ancients to do things, you ask, you don't rip nature in you harmonise in. The mistake people then make by not understanding is thinking the new post sundering night elves therefore hated arcane, but this sin't true, they hated abuse of arcane magic, and Highborne abuse of well everything.. power, magic, nature, you name it. This was the bad attitude that night elves in the post sundering era have overcome.

    but wielding arcane and nature has always been a core, and the new nations accept it, what they aim not to do is abuse it like before.

  10. #130
    Oh look! This must be blasphemy!



    Last edited by Hellspawn; 2020-06-28 at 01:17 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I like night elves, my favorite character is illidan. And because I like night elves I understand that they have a cultural development of 10 thousand years that simply cannot disappear because a small group of shendrelar returned a few years ago! Malfurion is the racial leader and Druids are a fundamental part of society.
    I repeat once again I agree that the Shendrelar have a district where they have constructions similar to that of the empire with a mage tower. But wanting to make all of society forget about 10 thousand years of cultural change so that they adapt to a style they abandoned seems to me inconsistent.

    Shendrelar deserve representation and I agree with that.
    You may like Night elves, but I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.. take time and go through Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider and my response above. Read my responses, and Ravenmoon's too (there's a good grasp of what i'm trying to say as we discuss things a lot)

    You will see that I'm not advocating any cultural disappearing, but rather characterising it in its proper place. Having pre-sundering type architecture in buildings is not denying or rejecting cultural developments. I understand that cultural state quite deeply, and try to explain, look, it lives in the forest, it isn't mutually exclusive with arcane magic or fancy buildings, it is prevalent where the people that follow it are, and not a single bit of it is undone by new developments. balance and harmony occur.. the harmony with nature is not necessarily converting trees to home or shaping them wisps to a different form to live in.. that's cruelty and abuse of nature just for aesthetic humanoid needs - it's not druid philosophy. if homes need to be built it's a sacrifice, but one when there is a need (like in the war campaigns) this is why most druids live in caves and under trees, and don't have Aldrassil like things all over the place. where they occur is limited.

    The arcane allows other things to be used, and building a city out of other substances is preferable, the harmony of nature comes in having flora adorning sidewalks, pavements, sometimes grass for roads or grass and marble interwoven, vines growing around some buildings and columns, flowers everywhere, in astonishing variety, critters allowed to freely move through and out the city, parks and trees (un twisted) even many parts of the city. This is how a city of the night elves lives in harmony with nature. A city is not living in the trees, and twisting trees to make homes.

    Night Not Wood Elves
    This is not the philosophy or presentation of Warcraft's night elves and has actually not been done on a city scale at all, because the developers are not creating DnD wood elves with the night elves -- otherwise they would have called them WOOD elves. There is a logic and philosophy for their night elves and they've presented that in their lore if you look closely. So you can understand with a fair measure of confidence why there is a Darnassus, what a new city would look like. Why the arcane is returning and growing, why Night elven civilization will never be at the state it was under Azshara and why it's not like the Blood elves even if it has great cities and life in those cities has a lot of similarities to blood elves - it would have major differences too.

    You keep thinking the elves are like separate units - night = wood, blood = high, Nightborne= dark, this is not how blizzard does races... the trolls - whether forest, ice, jungle, dark, sand etc ALL have lots of similarities you see represented in the original Troll race, the Zandalari, you don't see a complete segregation between the troll sub-races.. yes they have fortes, but there isn't. iit's the same with the elves, and the night elves are like the Zandalari, the original elf race, and therefore have multiple facets to them, even if the forest side is the one that is seen the strongest because it's the only elven group that has that.

    To then think that night elves having pre-sundering buildings or Highborne growing in numbers is removing their culture is showing a lack of understanding of who the night elves are and what they represent. This is why I created that topic I linked so you can see the arcane in the night elves, and I point out the nature in them too, and how they operate in them, so you can see growth in Highborne, in arcane usage and in civilization is not mutually exclusive nor an erosion of night elven druidic or forest culture for obvious reasons, most notably habitat, and nature and arcane love being present in all night elves even though one may dominate the other in a night elf depending on what his Order/caste is. Druid caste has nature dominating, Highborne caste has arcane - but both have nature love and arcane affinity/aptitude.

    Real Difference With Blood elves
    This is a NIGHT ELF feature, a blood elf doesn't have all of that. he has the arcane love strongly from the NIGHT elf (so it's silly to think somehow genetically night elves don't have arcane ability , desire or affinity), however he doesn't have the same nature love, their Highborne descendants continued in the Azsharan attitude towards nature - rejecting druidism on exile, and having a society that will not have druidic influence like the new Highborne caste the Shen'dralar are rebuilding, you can see that Blood elf view of nature is the more a tool and using, it's a Highborne trait, now the night elven Highborne today would be influenced by all the former druids in their ranks and the powerful druids in night elf society that will show them to take a different approach to nature - they intrinsically like nature even though Azshara's arrogance is responsible for how benevolent, nature loving night elves come to have such an attitude.

    What this means is the night elf race would retain even amongst it's Highborne, nature love and respect. Highborne respect power right, Malfurion and nature wielders in post-sundering era are far more powerful than they were in pre-sundering era, this power causes respect and attracts them, they'd want to harness it, but their nature love would dismissive attitude of nature as tools will undoubtedly change with the druidic influence. Blood elves won't have that in them. Not only are they are much smaller elven group, they don't have that nature and character in them retained and fostered in the night elves. They do have a nature love, they inherit that from the night elves too, but they have developed differently, it's fine, it's fine to have similarities, and differences, they don't have to be clear cut, night elves are nature, blood elves are arcane.

    Night elves are arcane, but ratio wise arcane practice is nowhere near as wide spread as the blood elves, and even with Highborne acceptance, and a lifted ban, I predict the arcane usage should peak in about 1/3 of the night elves despite all having the ability for it, it won't pervade society like it does amongst the blood elves, nor would it be like the night elves did it in the pre-sundering era end stages which is how it is amongst the Nightborne. There will be differences. Night elven arcane group currently, will be influenced by the druids in ways that will distinguish it from their kin amongst the Nightborne and the Thalassian descendants, but there's is just a part of a bigger whole in harmony with those other parts, not dominating them lik e it is in Nightborne and blood elf society.

    And tha't sjust the arcane side, ther eis still the nature side that continues, is quite large, and doesn't change at all, and the preist side. All these aspects of the night elves aren't new to the Long vigil or post vigil, they all started at various parts of the pre-sundering era. However the end period of the pr-sundering era, and the long vigil era itself were unsually times for the night elven groups, they weren't whole like in the earlier periods of the pre-sundering era. This is what I feel the night elves wil now represent.

    For a full forest elf culture, blizzard are better off using a new allied race - my recommendation is the night elf worgen, and with them you can get your tree homes and tree city - they will have an altered temperament and version of druidism that might allow for a tree capital of and out of trees. - sort of like the Lost Ones - and some DnD forest/wood elf renditions.

  12. #132
    Warchief Tuor's Avatar
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    @Mace this isn't your thread so, please, stop advertising your thread, also something really obvious, 10k years have passed since the sundering, in that time, everything changes, NElfs are no longer the ones they used to be. And the other Elfs are no longer Kaldorei, please face the facts.

  13. #133
    Can we just be thankful that Blizzard are keeping the main night elf group on Kalimdor - where they belong.

    Just like Nightborne belong in Suramar and Blood Elves belong in Quel'Thalas.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Exactly, I pointed out to him that he conveniently left out the heart of the city which is marble and pre-sundering style - but it seems to be it is horde elf fans that have the hardest time accepting the night elves arcane side, pre-sundering side or Highborne, as well ass building anything like Suramar or Zin'Azshari - almost as if they are trying to make it seem like it's not night elven

    They use the long vigil wrongly to make that point (ignoring it's over,) and the arcane ban wrongly too (as if to say night elves can't or never will use the arcane). I can only conclude they find the pre-sundering side of the night elves attractive (clearly Suramar is nice) and because it is horde don't want the actual kaldorei of whom it is a part off to have any of it - they want the entire night elf arcane legacy to be exclusively horde, jump over tot he horde like the High elves were taken over.

    I find this very disturbing, after greatly analysing and exploring the night elves, and coming to like both their eras and the uniqueness son what their arcane/nature duality is (an d it's one of the lore's best and most unique renditions of classical fantasy races) I've spent enough time writing about it to show them how very integrated these parts of the night elves are to the forest/Elune culture and what it would mean.

    A new city could very well have both aspects to it, but is unlikely. I can understand why Darnassus had wood homes in it from a lore point of view - the new city is built, without major arcane magical help, not enough resources to do everything in marble, so wood is used. I can also see lorewise why druids would prefer not to do this to trees.

    The way they wrote druids and Malfurion for wow, they do minimal co-opting of trees for homes or features, they'd rather save a tree than convert it into a house, they'd rather live under trees and in caves than disturb them for homes especially as they consider them living organisms too, and sentient, only asking them to sacrifice and give of themselves in time of great peril for a greater cause - and that's not the comfort or aesthetic of a race. They also prefer simplicity on their person and the thing s they build choosing instead to mould the beauty of nature according to Azeroths's dream, which they find more fascinating than anything else.

    So I don't think druids would want to use wood nor would they be the architects of a new city. I think they'd want the Highborne to use arcane magic to from new homes for a population centre out of other materials that can't get up and walk or think or are alive..I think they would help the Highborne weave nature and life into them, but the design would be night elven pre-sundering in a new city. The reason Darnassus was not is because it's an earlier model and the night elves' first attempt at building a city in 10k years, it's 20 years since, for a lot of techniques to be honed in, new night elven groups like the Highborne have returned, bringing a lot of expertise etc.

    Finally, I find the pre-sundering architecture stunning and beautiful, why wouldn't I want that for a night elf city? Zin'Azshari but with gardens and flowers galore, nature alive in the city, parks amid the beautiful elegant structures?

    Druids may care only for the beauty of nature, but they're about a third of the night elves, other night elves, like priests, Highborne, craftsmen and tradesmen care for beauty too, and love nature as they do, they can't craft/grow nature, so their beauty comes out in their workmanship, in the ornate temples, the buildings, their clothes and dresses . The druid ones don't care for such things, the closer to nature they are the better, because they find the beauty in a flower more elegant than the garb of the finest tailors, but that's the druid, that's certainly not the priest or the tailor or the Highborne. Nor does loving beautiful buildings, and craft work somehow mean you don't love nature - you do, you just have other loves and other skills.

    there is a gross failure to understand night elves beyond druidism, but that's because these horde fans are horde fans, and don't care that much - they chose the horde elves because they liked that better and felt it superior. All they saw of night elves were forests and ruins, but blood elves came with a great city and powerful magic and they switched in an instance. They didn't realise that night elves had even greater a civilization and wielded even greater magics, and that it was only preventing the legion's return that had stopped this, nothing else, not hate or phobia or anything like that - so WC3's end automatically implied that the night elves' great works would return. Darnassus was first fruits, and we saw a full version of what they could do in Suramar, the Zin'Azshari, we had Highborne return, no longer addicted or corrupt, having learnt a vital lesson and now working alongside the night elves.

    they gave up the night elves not understanding them, and now they work hard to oppose any development of the arcane side of the night elves. They accuse my voice revealing tis aspect as advocating for night elves to become like blood elves - I respond, it is blood elves that are like this side of night elves, and no, I am advocating for all the sides of the night elves to be shown, a night elf civilization city is not mutually exclusive with nature love, and a city doesn't mean night elves don't have a strong druidic core and forest cultures. Forest livelihoods are for forest, things are and always will be different in a city built by a race that has done this sort of thing to great levels.


    There lore hasn't set them up to be arcane hating, civilization hating elves at all, but has put them in a position that they are able to have both forest and city, arcane nature, in harmony and balance, without abuse in a way that they didn't have at the height of either of the past 2 eras. Night elves are a much bigger race than blood elves, there is enough room for both arcane and nature, city civilizations and forest ones, side by side, and areas where t hey mix, and where they are segregated. This I their purpose of the original race.

    I go into a much deeper dive here. In the topic: Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider
    I know you've been there, but anyone else reading this here, this topic really deep dives this aspect of the night elves - but it is aimed at showing there is a balance, and that both arcane and nature are core parts of the night elves - it doesn't try to make night elves only about the arcane at all, but it is very insistent on the relevance and core part of the Night elves, that the arcane, their pre-sundering history, civilization etc all are to them - and this is because some people who respond there felt that this was not part of the night elves anymore, that it was there only for the Blood elves (their elves) and it has nothing to do with current night elves - I prove and show throughout the topic how this is actually a misconception and not what the night elf lore shows about the night elf race. The arguments and discussion focus more on those aspects because these are the ones the majority horde fans responding there have trouble with (and some 1 alliance fan named Tuor). Much of this is because blizzard actually showed much more of the forest side of the night elves with the night elf model, and wrote a lot more about the arcane side of the night elves as in wow as they developed, night elves were largely neglected in favour of the horde and horde races, but they continued the story about them through a stunning total of 6 novels (only humans and orcs come close to those numbers)

    Highborne and arcane are not evils in to the night elves. One are people who misled the people, but not all, many have come round. The other is the powerful force that forged the night elves and has done much good, it's their misuse of it that drew the Legion, the fault of the past lies with their attitude and the legion, not actually with the arcane or being great wielders of it. Azshara towards the end of her reign twisted and misused everything she touched. Night elves always used nature, in the height of the re-sundering era, although they commanded ancients to do it, while most of them wielded the arcane, since nature practice on them had waned, still we see loads of ancient trees in Dire Maul, a Highborne city - like how arcane amgic was abused by the Queen in her addiction, so to was nature magic - not understanding you don't force ancients to do things, you ask, you don't rip nature in you harmonise in. The mistake people then make by not understanding is thinking the new post sundering night elves therefore hated arcane, but this sin't true, they hated abuse of arcane magic, and Highborne abuse of well everything.. power, magic, nature, you name it. This was the bad attitude that night elves in the post sundering era have overcome.

    but wielding arcane and nature has always been a core, and the new nations accept it, what they aim not to do is abuse it like before.
    Regarding Darnassus, there is one more thing that I want to point out - the whole Teldrassil project, which means Darnassus included, was work of Fandral. We knew that he was in fact using nature magics in extreme ways, many other druids and Cenarion Circle thought he is going too far. That was one of the reasons he stopped working with Cenarion Circle. He believed night elves are true masters of nature, they can do anything they desire and that they alone should be allowed to use powers of nature.

    You know, in "Fandral's era", we see those tree-buildings in several night elven outposts. Past Fandral's betrayal... not much. Even in Val'sharah, you don't see much of such buildings. There are some, but they are mostly underground with a tree growing on them. Perhaps such buildings were signature for Fandral's group, which went mad and corrupted in cataclysm. Those are just my theories.

    You are right that mostly horde fans find hard to stomach the idea of night elves having elegant marble cities. I sense the same hysteria we witnessed with High elves on the Alliance. It screams "this feature is ours and we want it only for ourselves". They ignore or disregard that kaldorei were those who formed this style. Sure, nightborne shaped it in their own way, with resources they had, with a style unique for them. Thalassians did the same. They evolved the style of their ancestors. Now, I don't see a reason why night elves should be forbidden to do so as well. As you said, Long Vigil is over, ban of arcane has been lifted years ago, nothing prevents elves to embrace their heritage. There are signs they already started to do so. They changed their racial crest from Teldrassil's emblem with a moon above it to original Highborne crest, we've seen that one present largely in Azsuna. The notion of the change is here.

    I understand that nobody wants to have his toys stolen from him, but kaldorei building a proper city does not mean that it needs to be done with with the same structures as we've seen in Suramar. It is obvious that kaldorei would build different city now. Their city would mostly be revering nature. Val'sharah, Azsuna and ruins in Suramar showed us that it is indeed possible, without damaging the style of Nightborne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    @Mace this isn't your thread so, please, stop advertising your thread, also something really obvious, 10k years have passed since the sundering, in that time, everything changes, NElfs are no longer the ones they used to be. And the other Elfs are no longer Kaldorei, please face the facts.
    Mace likes long structured posts. Not all posters are happy to read the whole texts he writes. I don't see anything bad at keeping most of these long posts in one thread where he expressed his thoughts in detail and later mentioning them in other threads which are related to the topic, and this is one such thread. It is in fact quite academical approach. When you produce a scientific text, you use quotes from other sources and you mention the source of those quotes. It includes even your own work you did before. Nothing bad about it.

    If you don't like that thread, you don't have to contribute to the discussion held there, or even bother to read it.
    Last edited by Vaedan; 2020-06-28 at 02:53 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Can we just be thankful that Blizzard are keeping the main night elf group on Kalimdor - where they belong.

    Just like Nightborne belong in Suramar and Blood Elves belong in Quel'Thalas.
    I can agree with that.
    Personally talking about the Well of Eternity below Nordrassil also being at the center of their society physical makes a lot of sense with all these moonwells the night elf build contain its water. They bring together, nature, wild life, Elune and raw magic.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    This only one side of Darnassus. There was also marble temple, a grand promenade at the heart of the city, also marble, and numerous bridges crossing the waters around temple gardens... and Darnassus was built in times when druidism was one of the most revered themes of their culture. Night elves changed their attitude since then. They allowed highborne back, so it's not that hard to imagine their new city will again mix those various themes. They have more reasons to do so now.
    bridges and a temple, is that where people lived? no, the night elves had their houses and buildings of daily life were trees or wood.

  17. #137
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    could alliance players please stop wanting to steal the horde capitals?

    some want to take Suramar from us, others want to take silvermoon from us and others want lordaeron.

    the alliance has its own territories!

    I'm glad to hear that on the horde side, Calia and Lilian are already bringing the forsaken back to lordaeron and preparing to rebuild their racial capital.
    This literally sounds like a Horde player trying to dismiss Alliance Propaganda against them. I love it.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    bridges and a temple, is that where people lived? no, the night elves had their houses and buildings of daily life were trees or wood.
    Yes, some of the populace of Darnassus lived in the temple - priestesses. Shen'dralar used temple gardens as their place as well. There were also several vendors in there as well. Warriors, thus Sentinel representation, also resided on the "marble part" of the city, so you are not right that elves dwelled only in "wooden part". Even if nobody lived here, large section of city was build in that style, so it is clear that it is still part of their identity. Capital of night elves showed us that even in times of arcane ban, elves were eager to use delicate marble buildings in their city, which was build atop of the huge tree. You can clearly see that night elves are not afraid to combine old imperial styles with nature. Why should they be forbidden to do so now? They always did it. Look at Darnassus. Look at Hyjal, littered with marble shrines of Ancients. Look at Val'sharah, also with marble shrines, like Ashamane's Fall. Look at Temple of Elune, both in Val'sharah and Broken Shore. None of these structures would collide with suramarian style, if Nightborne's uniqueness is your concern.
    Last edited by Vaedan; 2020-06-28 at 03:17 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Believe me, I am 100% on your side on this on. Always was. In fact, I am still extremely salty about all of it. Its nice to hear I am not the only one caring.
    Yeh, thanks man, I'm still salty too.. the stuff they did with night elves in Legion and BFA - it clearly has some thought in it, but it also has enough not factored in to make me suspect these guys really don't care as much as they could or were trying too.


    I understand it had to be night elves because they wanted Kalimdor in the horde, but having Sylvanas literally murder them like that into a genocide is something horde players are not happy about at all, and I can relate - they were automatically willingly complicit (even if we know what the horde is)

    Then there is the burning of the tree.

    The timing too, it's like the Legion's defeat means nothing to night elves - yet it's basically defined their existence since that fateful day the Queen was contacted and accepted Sargeras' bargain. The entire long vigil, whether in Kalimdor northern forests, or Eldre'thalas, or Suramar or the broken isles has defined them based on that..whether demon hunter, sentinel, hunter, Warden, Moonguard etc.. and then it's as if nothing happens when WoT hits.

    Then we get Darkshore, it was cool but really? Compensation? Do you think a piece of land with all the people dead is compensation? And night elves have to be super Saiyan to beat the horde? Night warrior is cool though

    Then 8.2, and you are telling me seriously, that Jaina and Genn in Naz'jatar for the alliance makes more sense that Tyrande and Mordant Evenshade (or Tyrande and Prince Farondis)., when asked about it, your response is Tyrande has had enough air time because of Darkshore warfront -- what? She wasn't even in the warfront just the pre-quests and voice of the dailies - meanwhile Lady Jaina has been in every patch, including the bigger raid, is supposedly injured but is sprite on her feet... seriously?

    Oh I could go on. On the one hand I do like their night elves, really, and a lot about their lore, the race and what they've setup but seriously, I do not like that night elves were only shown as benevolent but not dangerous for most of wow. I do not like how dependent they made them on humans, I did not like how when the Shen'dralar came they didn't show them do anything in game, nothing wonderful. I liked how the Night elves were portrayed in Legion a lot but:

    1. I didn't like how they took the Nightborne horde - they should have taken Elisande and her elites horde, then let the Arcan'dor change the rest into night elves. So both factions had a piece of them
    2. I didn't like how they used Tyrande in 7.1, she is the High Priestess returning to a city where elves are oppressed. Even with anger against Elisande, we should have seen as High Priestess of Elune sending arcane judgement from the stars and moon against the Legion and providing relief, healing to the starving, withdrawal elves using the light of mother moon, like a true priestess, and she could have done this still having had those very sharp words for Thalyssra (even though they were harsh)
    3. I don't like how they cut Tyrande out of the broken shore patch and storyline, though they wrote a complete one for her and the Order, Both Suramar and the CoEN are basically the holiest site for the order, Tyrande should have been wit Illidan, not Maiev, or at least the 3 of them. With the Sisterhood accompanying the adventurers, and working alongside the demon hunters

    It's like they abandoned the night elf consideration after everything designed for the initial release was done i.e. Broken shore zones and the Nighthold.. 7.1 onwards it all seemed out of joint, like they were making hasty decisions and changing everything, . I noticed.

    Could go on, but hey, here I am defending night elves. It's like when it comes to them, even they're own stuff they are grudging about using them. IT's like the trend that started in TBC where they were taking all things alliance related and porting them over to the horde, especially if they were nice is still going on, then instead of taking the time to use other races, even in areas where they are appropriate (ahem, Naz'jatar, *cough *cough) they use humans because you know, we haven't seen enough of Genn and Jaina in Boralus, Dazar'alor and we have to use them in Naz'jatar though it has NOTHING to do with them, it's not related to the alliance war, but rather tot he N'zoth plot.


    I give up on Warcraft.

    You hear me?

    I give up !!!

    I can't take this

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Yes, some of the populace of Darnassus lived in the temple - priestesses. Shen'dralar used temple gardens as their place as well. There were also several vendors in there as well. Warriors, thus Sentinel representation, also resided on the "marble part" of the city, so you are not right that elves dwelled only in "wooden part". Even if nobody lived here, large section of city was build in that style, so it is clear that it is still part of their identity. Capital of night elves showed us that even in times of arcane ban, elves were eager to use delicate marble buildings in their city, which was build atop of the huge tree. You can clearly see that night elves are not afraid to combine old imperial styles with nature. Why should they be forbidden to do so now? They always did it. Look at Darnassus. Look at Hyjal, littered with marble shrines of Ancients. Look at Val'sharah, also with marble shrines, like Ashamane's Fall. Look at Temple of Elune, both in Val'sharah and Broken Shore. None of these structures would collide with suramarian style, if Nightborne's uniqueness is your concern.
    100% of what I think about this topic myself.

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