Players Must Reject Blizzard Divisiveness

[Skytotem]

I can never understand why Blizzard's writing is so "bad." I've read a lot of books. I've watched a lot of movies/TV shows. I'm played a lot of games. And Warcraft's story is one of my all-time favorites.

Genuine question, those of you who don't like the writing, what is an example of something that you would consider good and why? Warcraft has story holes, but so does everything else I've seen. There's lots of back and forth non-sensible stuff, but so does everything else that is a long-running story. I just honestly don't understand why Warcraft is allegedly "so bad" despite it doing exactly what everyone else does, but in my personal opinion, better. I can count on one hand the number of things I didn't really like whereas it far exceeds that with other stories.

Some good examples: The outcasts in vol'dun, especially the Goldtusk gang, were fun. As were the Unshackled and the flavor around the various Loa. The goblin squad and Forsaken squad in Nazmir too. Everything about the Throne of Thunder and the Mantid. While a terrible concept the Nightborne were executed well. The Redpath quest in Vanilla was good, as was the Fallen Hero of the Horde chain from that time period. The Cipher of Damnation questline in TBC was fantastic. The cata Southern-Barrens questline was alright.




Some bad examples: Baine saying that "Taurajo was a viable target". Thrall putting Gallywix in charge in Cata. The Horde going along with Sylvanas in BFA. The Burning of Teldrassil essentially being used as a plot device to start the war and barely mentioned by the Horde afterwards. Baine having stronger ties to the Alliance than he does the Horde. Rexxar saying Jaina had 'killed too many' and that he had to oppose her in Stormsong despite that not... making any sense. Everything about WoD's time travel nonsense. The Wrathgate. Garrosh turning into an evil racist rather than maturing.

The "War Crimes" Novel making it so that the Celestials were judging Tyrande... for... being mad that Garrosh tried to commit genocide against her people...? (Seriously wtf?)

[Soon-TM]

I think Blizzard's come to accept this, which is why the Alliance and Horde are now in an armistice.

An armistice, not a peace treaty, which means that technically they are still at war. Writers definitely didn't want to close the door at the possibility of a MoP 3.0. If Baine is ever dead/deposed/exiled, or otherwise indisposed - you will know that MoP 3.0 is coming.

[TheFirstOnes]

An armistice, not a peace treaty, which means that technically they are still at war. Writers definitely didn't want to close the door at the possibility of a MoP 3.0. If Baine is ever dead/deposed/exiled, or otherwise indisposed - you will know that MoP 3.0 is coming.

Don't expect anything relating to a MoP 3.0 at all? It's clear as day that the Light/Shadow conflict is coming right after this shit. Idk why people keep arguing factions, when the entire point of BFA was so Blizzard could stop the main Alliance/Horde conflict, as well as end the Black Empire threat once and for all.

[RobertMugabe]

I am of the opinion that the reason Blizzard has been able to skate by with their atrocious writing is that so many players buy into the "Who has it worse" feud with regards to the bad writing or favoritism.

Despite the faction wars usually having some of the worst writing I've also felt that they could be some of the best if Blizzard BOTHERED to have consistency and attention to detail.

Rather than arguing about how the In-Universe characters are dumb, or who has suffered more (Alliance for being passive and losing things to neutrality, Horde for getting villain-batted and losing characters to being raid bosses and such) we should push together for Blizz to get more in touch with its playerbase and their concerns with the lore. It's been YEARS we shouldn't still be seeing them making the same mistakes and reading people being angry about it as "Engagement".


#LoreUnion

Can you people ffs stop about calling the story "bad writing"? It is sooo obvious that people like you are just triggered that X hasn't happened like you wanted or Y character does something you don't want it to and that's it. Just because they story doesn't go your way, it doesn't give you any right to straight up discredit all the writers and call them incompetent.

[Soon-TM]

Don't expect anything relating to a MoP 3.0 at all? It's clear as day that the Light/Shadow conflict is coming right after this shit. Idk why people keep arguing factions, when the entire point of BFA was so Blizzard could stop the main Alliance/Horde conflict, as well as end the Black Empire threat once and for all.

I remember many folks singing the same song after MoP, just with the Legion instead of Light/Void. Oh the naivety...

[Skytotem]

Can you people ffs stop about calling the story "bad writing"? It is sooo obvious that people like you are just triggered that X hasn't happened like you wanted or Y character does something you don't want it to and that's it. Just because they story doesn't go your way, it doesn't give you any right to straight up discredit all the writers and call them incompetent.

So in your opinion... Cala and Baine are good writing...?

Rexxar going "Jaina has killed too many..." when that makes zero sense... is good writing?

The retread of Garrosh's arc with Sylv is... good writing in your mind?

[Feanoro]

So in your opinion... Cala and Baine are good writing...?

Rexxar going "Jaina has killed too many..." when that makes zero sense... is good writing?

The retread of Garrosh's arc with Sylv is... good writing in your mind?

It's another variant on the "you pointed out the problems, there's no easy fix, shut up" posts you see so often in Blizzard's defense across all the MMO-C fora. Not worth taking seriously.

[VinceVega]

I am of the opinion that the reason Blizzard has been able to skate by with their atrocious writing is that so many players buy into the "Who has it worse" feud with regards to the bad writing or favoritism.

Despite the faction wars usually having some of the worst writing I've also felt that they could be some of the best if Blizzard BOTHERED to have consistency and attention to detail.

Rather than arguing about how the In-Universe characters are dumb, or who has suffered more (Alliance for being passive and losing things to neutrality, Horde for getting villain-batted and losing characters to being raid bosses and such) we should push together for Blizz to get more in touch with its playerbase and their concerns with the lore. It's been YEARS we shouldn't still be seeing them making the same mistakes and reading people being angry about it as "Engagement".


#LoreUnion

I'll be honest: I don't think the writing is as bad as people make it out to be. And i honestly believe, that most people also don't have a problem with it. People just don't tend to go on the forums to tell you that.

I like what they do with sylvanas. I just don't like the drip feeding of mystery upon mystery. Something has to be resolved at some point an the big mistake of BFA was that they basically did not tell us anything

[Soon-TM]

I like what they do with sylvanas.

You mean what they did in BfA, when they changed her ultimate motivations like three times in a row? Turning her into a cringey, moustache-twirling evil Mary Sue, hard retconning everything about her and the Forsaken, so that writers could drop their message about how war is bad, and we should be eternally ashamed of resorting to it, in a game called Warcraft?

[TheFirstOnes]

I remember many folks singing the same song after MoP, just with the Legion instead of Light/Void. Oh the naivety...

Except the entire point of MoP was to just stop Garrosh, and save Pandaria from the Sha...

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Hell, MoP ended with a "POTENTIAL" peace, that ended off with Wrathion mocking Varian and saying that this shit won't help us in the battles to come. Meanwhile, in BFA, the "potential" peace seems pretty fine tbh, with only Talanji, Rokhan, and Tyrande really disagreeing with it.

[Soon-TM]

Except the entire point of MoP was to just stop Garrosh, and save Pandaria from the Sha...

And the entire point of BfA was to stop Sylvanas, and save Azeroth from N'Zoth...

[Belloc]

I'm not interested in reading 6 pages just to see if someone else has already said it, so I'm just going to say it:

Blizzard has been able to "skate by" for a couple of reasons.

1. The writing isn't actually as bad as the people in this subforum like to suggest.
2. Your average player simply doesn't care.

That's it. Your average player is playing this game to play with friends or to have fun with guildies/by themselves. The storyline is just flavor on top of that experience. This isn't a novelized series with a diehard fanbase that freaks out when the writer(s) forget established details -- it's a video game with a wide range of interests that fall primarily in the "interested in fun" zone and not the "deeply interested in the story" zone.

The writing in this game is never going to be aimed at the crowd that goes to college/university for literature. You aren't going to hear WoW brought up in comparison to Jane Austen or F. Scott Fitzgerald. WoW's is the kind of story where you benefit most from being willing to turn off those hyper-critical parts of your brain. If that's not something you're capable of doing, then, quite frankly, you'd benefit most from letting go because, otherwise, you're only ever going to be disappointed.

[Selah]

I have a love-hate relationship with the faction division. It's fun on one hand to go out into the real world and see that Horde sticker and yell at them "for the Alliance" or vice versa. The passion that people bring to the table being red or blue is really fun. It's one of the more unique aspects of WoW.

Some of the writing is good (Saurfang), some of it is bad (Sylvanas). I think Blizzard's strength is writing large over-the-top stories. (WotLK, Legion, MoP, cosmic chart, Sargeras, ect.) It seems to me that they just have a hard time telling more nuanced stories and seem to blunder those more often than not. (Azshara, Yrel, Sylvanas, Garrosh, Thrall, Kael'thas ect.). It's also why I'm glad they killed Varian before they had a chance to butcher his character.

This is why I'm excited about SL. It's hitting the bigger picture themes and ideas and shying away the nuance stuff (I hope).

[TheFirstOnes]

And the entire point of BfA was to stop Sylvanas, and save Azeroth from N'Zoth...

With N'Zoth, that wasn't a factor until post-Azshara. Sylvanas though, I will agree with. I still think you're overthinking things though.

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I'm not interested in reading 6 pages just to see if someone else has already said it, so I'm just going to say it:

Blizzard has been able to "skate by" for a couple of reasons.

1. The writing isn't actually as bad as the people in this subforum like to suggest.
2. Your average player simply doesn't care.

That's it. Your average player is playing this game to play with friends or to have fun with guildies/by themselves. The storyline is just flavor on top of that experience. This isn't a novelized series with a diehard fanbase that freaks out when the writer(s) forget established details -- it's a video game with a wide range of interests that fall primarily in the "interested in fun" zone and not the "deeply interested in the story" zone.

The writing in this game is never going to be aimed at the crowd that goes to college/university for literature. You aren't going to hear WoW brought up in comparison to Jane Austen or F. Scott Fitzgerald. WoW's is the kind of story where you benefit most from being willing to turn off those hyper-critical parts of your brain. If that's not something you're capable of doing, then, quite frankly, you'd benefit most from letting go because, otherwise, you're only ever going to be disappointed.

Literally this. WoW is just "Oh, Alliance/Horde fight. Gods, Dragons, Demons, and all things Fantasy exist in this franchise. Beat their asses, players! " and that's it. Most Lore Characters exist just to push the narrative forward for the players.

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I mean, that's literally the story of World of Warcraft: It's about YOU! The player! And how YOU experience this vast, neigh unexplored Universe.

[Mardux]

OP is right. we must reject blizzard divisiveness by giving Sylv and the entire horde a giant f you in the form of using out spaceship to level their cities. And Torghast.

Just give the Taurajo treatment, right?

Or better yet, why level their cities when we can just enslave them again and force them to wallow in their filth to the point they lose the will the live. Is that too alliance for the 2020 culture?

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Did I ever say you couldn't? Holy shit bro. Calm down.

Yes. You literally told them to not buy the game. All you had to do was scroll up and see exactly what you wrote...

Like.. fuck dude. It ain't that difficult.

[Relapses]

Yes. You literally told them to not buy the game. All you had to do was scroll up and see exactly what you wrote...

Like.. fuck dude. It ain't that difficult.

I'd like to introduce to you a little thing called "reading comprehension," since you apparently have none of it. I told the guy that if he's so fucking upset about the direction the creative developers of the game are taking then the choice to not buy the fucking game is more relevant than the absolutely pants-on-head ridiculous idea of a fucking "player story review pageant."

Like... fuck dude. It ain't that difficult.
[Infraction]

[Soon-TM]

I'd like to introduce to you a little thing called "reading comprehension," since you apparently have none of it. I told the guy that if he's so fucking upset about the direction the creative developers of the game are taking then the choice to not buy the fucking game is more relevant than the absolutely pants-on-head ridiculous idea of a fucking "player story review pageant."

Like... fuck dude. It ain't that difficult.

Maybe you should explain why is such a bad idea. As if Danuser & co. were penning R.L. Stevenson-tier of writing

[Relapses]

Maybe you should explain why is such a bad idea. As if Danuser & co. were penning R.L. Stevenson-tier of writing

Do fans dictate the outcome of popular movie franchises? Nope.

Do fans dictate the outcome of popular book series? Nope.

Do fans dictate the outcome of single player video games? Nope.

But suddenly, because WoW's an MMO with a monthly subscription fans should be given agency over the basic foundational blocks of the story told simply because... well, reasons? Fuck that noise. Players can't agree on anything and they surely wouldn't agree on the story. As I said in my first post, this opens the door for game design by democracy and that's frankly one of the worst ideas I see thrown around on this forum. We need to focus on ideas which bring the community together instead of fragmenting it further.

[Soon-TM]

Do fans dictate the outcome of popular movie franchises? Nope.

Do fans dictate the outcome of popular book series? Nope.

Do fans dictate the outcome of single player video games? Nope.

But suddenly, because WoW's an MMO with a monthly subscription fans should be given agency over the basic foundational blocks of the story told simply because... well, reasons? Fuck that noise. Players can't agree on anything and they surely wouldn't agree on the story. As I said in my first post, this opens the door for game design by democracy and that's frankly one of the worst ideas I see thrown around on this forum. We need to focus on ideas which bring the community together instead of fragmenting it further.

For someone who loves preaching about reading comprehension, it looks like you are severely lacking in that regard. Blizzard would still get to choose the winner, or could use one of the competing stories to craft their own. Hell, at the beginning of BfA there was a lot of speculation about its outcome, and some of the proposed ideas were really good... Much better than the Disney stuff than we ended up with. YMMV applies, of course.

Besides, e.g. ESO has already implemented a (limited) version of this, in the form of a "lore committee" of sorts. It exists to ensure the continuity and overall coherence of the story, with players participating in it - and they've been quite successful. So drop the Blizzard Honour Guard banner, and don't assume stuff simply because you didn't understand what was written in plain old English.

Infracted.

[Relapses]

For someone who loves preaching about reading comprehension, it looks like you are severely lacking in that regard. Blizzard would still get to choose the winner, or could use one of the competing stories to craft their own. Hell, at the beginning of BfA there was a lot of speculation about its outcome, and some of the proposed ideas were really good... Much better than the Disney stuff than we ended up with. YMMV applies, of course.

Besides, e.g. ESO has already implemented a (limited) version of this, in the form of a "lore committee" of sorts. It exists to ensure the continuity and overall coherence of the story, with players participating in it - and they've been quite successful. So drop the Blizzard Honour Guard banner, and don't assume stuff simply because you didn't understand what was written in plain old English.

What the fuck, dude? What does reading comprehension even have to do with what I said? You asked me a question so I explained to you why I think it's a bad idea (for a second time since you didn't like my first post). You can disagree with me if you want but that has fuck all to do with reading comprehension so please drop that pointless train of thought.

Further, "it works in {x game}" is a terrible reason for something like this to come to fruition. This isn't me "defending Blizzard," this is me defending the fundamental basics of storytelling for a creative developer. The last thing this game needs is a team of smug douchebags who think their opinions on lore matters more than anybody else's trying to corral the writers to point the story in a certain direction because they feel it's best for the game. Like I said, the clearest signal any consumer can give to a creative developer that they dislike the direction something is taking is by not buying the product.