1. #1

    Renewing Mist Redesign

    Why changing?
    Mistweavers are either broken HPS-Wise and suddenly they are "viable" or they arent broken hpswise -> not "viable" for progress.
    As far as i understand, healers need to have either dmg reduction, some special niche, or some sort of necessary utility to be viable for progress.

    Apart from ring of piece and mystical touch, mistweavers have nothing that makes them good or at least special in some way. Sadly every progress guild has at least one Brewmaster. This nullifies the need for Mistweavers.

    In an ideal world we have 6 heal specs and every progress raid is happy with any combination of them. The reality is, that the usual healing setup is 1-2 paladins, 1-2 dpriest, and maybe 1 shaman, because one mechanic requires a spirit link.
    This change tries to improve this situation.


    My Suggestion:

    Mastery Change
    Bonding Mists:
    Targets affected by Renewing Mists will prevent 3%(+Mastery) of their damage taken.
    Targets effected by Soothing Mist or Enveloping Mist prevent twice the amount of damage.
    Targets affected by Life Cocoon prevent thrice the amount of damage.
    Damage prevented this way will be redistributed evenly between all targets affected by your Renewing Mist, Soothing Mist and Enveloping Mist.
    Targets affected by bonding Mists receive up to 3%(+Mastery) more healing from you, diminishing as more allies are effected by Bonding Mists. (To improve scaling issues in solo / small group situations)
    The damage prevention of Bonding Mists does not stack with each other.
    Redistributed damage does not break crowd control. (necessary for PVP)

    Essence Font:
    Same healing Effect but Targets affected by Essence font will receive twice the effect of Bonding Mists (Mastery)

    Cocoon Change
    The interaction with Mastery will make this a proper single target cooldown. The numbers can be tuned down considering the buff by the mastery interaction. With high mastery this can rival PainSup, in lower gear this is similar to ironbark.

    Revival Change:
    Same healing/dispel effect, but considerably reduced healing numbers. Instead there is a new effect:
    Renewing Mists will be applied for 10 seconds to every target healed by Revival. Existing Renewing Mists will be prolonged accordingly.
    (The wombo combo potential with vivify/manatea/essence font is huge, and it’s a lot more fun and interactive, than the current iteration. This can also be used as pseudo tank cooldown in emergency situations)

    Number example:
    We have some Mastery -> Damage Prevention 5%
    The Tank is affected by essence font, renewing mist, soothing mist, enveloping mist. 5% (Mastery) * 2 (essence font) *2 (SM, EM,RM – only the strongest effect, since it doesn’t stack) = 20%
    Renewing Mists is applied to 4 Targets (including the Tank)
    20% of the damage prevented is distributed evenly -> everyone will be dealt 5% of the initial hit.
    This results in a damage reduction on the tank of 15% during essence font.
    If there is high raid/group dmg on everyone our mastery does no damage reduction at all.


    Summary

    The new mastery will help the raid with spot healing. The current iteration of vivify fits perfectly with the new mastery, enabling the mistweaver to be a spothealer with the addition of some aoe-healing. It also interacts decently with the new covenant abilities.
    Mistweavers progress “viability” isn’t dictated by our numbers being op – or not. Since currently the only reason to bring a mistweaver is raw hps. Instead we have some sort of niche/uniqueness with this change.
    It isnt broken by its own, it synergizes with other healers, and it is decent(strong?) in pvp too.


    What do you think? Is this too good?

    Ps.: I actually would give Hpriest something similar
    Last edited by dileria; 2020-06-30 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Updated the idea

  2. #2
    Or just use your M+ spec in raids for excessive tank / on spot healing, as there's no other class currently that covers this as good as mistweavers do with their instant cast + channel abilities.

  3. #3
    Excessive Tank spot healing in a heal setup, with usually at least one HPala? I don't encounter that very often...

    I do agree on the point that we have good sustained single target healing though. But as always Dmg Reduction > HPS. Only very few encounters do favor raw single target hps (last boss in Temple of Sethralis)

    With m+ Spec you mean Way of the Crane? 25% Mana cost works in m+ because it a) scales with enemy targets, and b) you can drink between pulls. Check warcraftlogs ... way of the crane is not.. the way to go- punny
    At least not in Ny'alotha right now.

  4. #4
    Whats exactly the problem you are trying to fix?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ZerFunk View Post
    Whats exactly the problem you are trying to fix?
    Mistweavers contributes nothing to the raid that isn't covered by Windwalker/Brew. Revival is a terrible raid cooldown and cocoon is aswell because it doesn't have a damage mitigation tied to it. Even if they chucked a 3% damage mitigation on targets with RM on them it would still be a little better because people with RM are gonna be people with less health than others

    The problem is that mistweavers are basically health sniping healer with RM or an aoe healing power house if the fight allow for RJW. As with shaman back in the past, it cripples the spec when only 1-2 fights are actually good for a certain spec.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    Mistweavers contributes nothing to the raid that isn't covered by Windwalker/Brew. Revival is a terrible raid cooldown and cocoon is aswell because it doesn't have a damage mitigation tied to it. Even if they chucked a 3% damage mitigation on targets with RM on them it would still be a little better because people with RM are gonna be people with less health than others

    The problem is that mistweavers are basically health sniping healer with RM or an aoe healing power house if the fight allow for RJW. As with shaman back in the past, it cripples the spec when only 1-2 fights are actually good for a certain spec.
    What are your expectations then, that every healer is top healer in the same percentage of mythic fights on every patch? damn bro, that sounds impossible.

    Cocoon still saves people, doesnt it?
    Revival mass dispell is pretty unique and can cheese some mechanics

    all monks bring the same utility, yeah, thats kinda true for a bunch of specs tho

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ZerFunk View Post
    What are your expectations then, that every healer is top healer in the same percentage of mythic fights on every patch? damn bro, that sounds impossible.

    Cocoon still saves people, doesnt it?
    Revival mass dispell is pretty unique and can cheese some mechanics

    all monks bring the same utility, yeah, thats kinda true for a bunch of specs tho
    You don't play around cocoon to save people, because 9/10 times it doesn't.
    Revival's mass dispell is unique but it also sucks major dick and the encounter has to be catered around mass dispel and not punish you for doing so, Maut would've been good but it isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by ZerFunk View Post
    What are your expectations then, that every healer is top healer in the same percentage of mythic fights on every patch? damn bro, that sounds impossible.
    No, i want every healer to have a niche and actually be good at it. Resto shaman is great for progress because of mastery, but sucks huge dong on progress fights because of mastery and even now they're more useful as a floater because of Battle shaman. They've been overdue for a mastery rework for so long now it's actually ridiculous

    Mistweaver as it stands serve no purpose when their role is covered better by other healers.
    Last edited by lollerlaban; 2020-06-29 at 07:27 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ZerFunk View Post
    What are your expectations then, that every healer is top healer in the same percentage of mythic fights on every patch? damn bro, that sounds impossible.

    Cocoon still saves people, doesnt it?
    Revival mass dispell is pretty unique and can cheese some mechanics

    all monks bring the same utility, yeah, thats kinda true for a bunch of specs tho
    it won't solve the problem, but why not trying to improve it?

    Revival is cool at hivemind when an interrupt was messed up. That is truely useful.
    Now think about how often spiritlink, auramastery, dome, etc is useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post

    Mistweaver as it stands serve no purpose when their role is covered better by other healers.
    I guess thats the whole point, thank you for rephrasing that.

    I updated my idea for it to synergize more with the monk toolkit - or is that too much now?
    Last edited by dileria; 2020-06-30 at 05:43 AM.

  9. #9
    Warchief shade3891's Avatar
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    Just let spells apply Mystic "Jade" Touch on players instead, replacing Mystic Touch for Mistweaver.

    Mystic Jade Touch (passive)
    Your healing spells and effects strengthen the target, decreasing Physical damage taken by 5% and increase Physical damage done by 5%.
    Lasts 30 minutes

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dileria View Post
    it won't solve the problem, but why not trying to improve it?
    yeahyeah im not trying to antagonize you, just trying to understand what is the problem you are trying to fix.
    You want MW to be top tier, im saying not all specs can be top tier.
    I'm also saying that you WILL be able to do +15's and any mythic content with a mw monk, you will get invited, they are not bad at all.

  11. #11
    Would you agree with me, that the different healers are usually more or less on par hps-wise.
    (obviously sometimes some classes are a bit over / undertuned)

    If most healers are somewhat equal on hps, why would you take sth else than pala, disc? (or shaman - if spiritlink is needed)

    So give everyone some utility/niche/perks ... whatever.

    The discussion is not about being able to finish a 15+. You can finish a 15+ with 5 blood dk's, is it ideal though?
    I dont think that this argument is valid.

    The discussion is what can healers bring to the table except hps?

    Lets look at the healing roles in raid scenario

    Pala: Dmg reduction and passiv tank healing (and they bring good dps - but thats just numbers)
    Dpriest: they can start healing/ramping before the dmg spike occured and have also dmg reduction (and they bring decent dps, but thats also just numbers)

    Sham: Spirit Link (imo also a sad state to be in. To play a pseudo ele shammy, and drop that healing tide/spiritlink for one mechanic or phase, just to go back to doing dmg again. but it has its niche in a raid setup)

    MW/HPriest: Snipe every remaining hps they can get.
    Rdrood: I like the niche that rdroods have, but unfortunately many mechanics do not favor hots if played with 3 other heals

  12. #12
    Oh no.

    When a spec is a failure, people will try to redesign it with ds.

    MW is just a profit loss, stop trying to fix it.

  13. #13
    The one Renewing Mist redesign that we need is:

    "If you use Renewing Mist on someone who already has your Renewing Mist then it will immediately jump to the next player."

    It's so annoying to have to HoT the full health players so that you're not risking to overwrite a RM that jumped on your heal target 0.0001s before you used RM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The one Renewing Mist redesign that we need is:

    "If you use Renewing Mist on someone who already has your Renewing Mist then it will immediately jump to the next player."

    It's so annoying to have to HoT the full health players so that you're not risking to overwrite a RM that jumped on your heal target 0.0001s before you used RM.
    agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The one Renewing Mist redesign that we need is:

    "If you use Renewing Mist on someone who already has your Renewing Mist then it will immediately jump to the next player."

    It's so annoying to have to HoT the full health players so that you're not risking to overwrite a RM that jumped on your heal target 0.0001s before you used RM.
    Yeah, the weird functionality of having to throw the HoT on people who don't need the healing just so it can auto-jump to the appropriate target so you don't risk casting it on someone who is about to get the auto-jump from another version you have out is so detrimental. As a healer you want to put the healing where it's needed, but if you do with this HoT you risk overwriting an existing HoT which could still be going around and healing people and thus wasting charges of it. It'd be nice if throwing it on someone would just make it jump so you could keep them all out without wasting the healing because you were trying to heal the targets that needed healing, yeah.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The one Renewing Mist redesign that we need is:

    "If you use Renewing Mist on someone who already has your Renewing Mist then it will immediately jump to the next player."

    It's so annoying to have to HoT the full health players so that you're not risking to overwrite a RM that jumped on your heal target 0.0001s before you used RM.
    The funny thing is it works that way right now. Except when it doesn't. But sometimes it does!

    From testing, it appears that if the game determines the new RM can "extend" the previous RM, then it extends. Otherwise it pushes the previous one to another person. The trick is you can't really tell when it's extendable. In fact, it appears to be decided by whether it was extended in the past or not, which is dumb for various reasons.

    RM at 18sec -> EXTEND TO 26 sec. Then that RM is at 3 seconds, the time where extend would be good, but if you cast it now it just pushes the 3 sec RM to another person and gives a default duration one on the target.

    So I feel like blizzard tried to make it, but it didn't work right, and they didn't bother trying to fix it, so they just kept silent about it.

    Ah, here's the peak of serenity overview of it:
    Quote Originally Posted by https://www.peakofserenity.com/2018/07/10/renewing-mist/

    New to Battle for Azeroth is a feature that if you cast Renewing Mist on a target that already has one of your previous Renewing Mists active, it will look to push that older ReM to an eligible target, otherwise it’ll overwrite on that target.. If we cast it on the Rogue, the existing buff will jump to the Warrior because the Warrior is an eligible target. The Shaman, however, has no eligible targets in range, so casting Renewing Mist on them will just cause an overwrite.
    Still very very very inconsistent imo.

  17. #17
    If (Remaining RM Duration + new RM (18sec) >= 1,33*RM Duration (24 Sec) )
    Force Jump old RM
    else
    Extend remaining Duration

    It's a small quality of life change i guess.

    But does it really improve Mistweavers?^^

  18. #18
    im hoping MW gets to deal at least 50% of the damage that a disc priest can produce

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