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  1. #1

    NR Gear P5 and P6

    Atlas add on shows crafted NR blue gear P5, some say Atlas is wrong and it will only be available P6 (Cenarion rep recipes).

    Why is this a potential issue?

    Certain bosses do raid wide Nature damage and require NR gear. Today on live that means World Boss farming to gear tanks and soackers. Rest of the raid is ok with what’s possible today NR gear wise.

    If said crafted gear is time gated, on servers with many guilds raiding and so few world bosses, could this cause a decline in player base seeing how they will not be able to clear AQ?
    Last edited by Cempa; 2020-06-29 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #2
    You're taking for granted that we will need a lot of NR for AQ40, which i highly doubt.
    I have a NR set of about 150NR in my bank, without having a single world boss kill, but i don't think i'll need it once were done with our 2nd kill, our dps is just too high. Huhuran has a bit less hp then Ragnaros and hes a 90sec fight, on a bad attendance day, without world buffs. Tell your raid to save their trinkets and cooldowns for her last 30% and she should melt before your healers go oom.
    AQ40 trash packs will be more annoying then most of the bosses.

  3. #3
    The only crafted NR set that is available (since) P4 is the Sandstalker (Mail) one. With P5 we get the Nature Resist Cloak Enchant. P6 adds all other stuff. Which is in line with how things were released back in the original game according to patchnotes.

    You wont have much issues with Huhurans last phase with current DPS / Heal optimizations she will be dead very very quick and before last phase she does nothing dangerous if your hunters tranq. You can still gather some NR without the crafted stuff if you really think you need it.

  4. #4
    NR gear is only going to be useful for guilds that have awful dps. Any decent guild isn't going to have a problem zerging the last 30% with CDs. Also there's enough NR gear in the game without even touching crafted/world boss gear to do the boss.

  5. #5
    I don't think you'll be able to just zerg her without world buffs. Maybe in a guild with a million warriors.

    If you go in with zero NR the whole melee group (well 15 of them) is taking ~2,500 damage every ~2-3 seconds and Huhuran sleeps the whole melee group for 15 seconds (with a 4,000 damage hit if you dispel) it'd be pretty easy to die.

    Getting the NR would be the safe bet.

    It's not like it's terribly hard. Run Maraudon orange a bunch and get some BoE rings. Do the first boss of Stratholme a bit.

    Huhuran has a bit less hp then Ragnaros and hes a 90sec fight, on a bad attendance day, without world buffs.
    Just going to point out that warcraftlogs shows that a 90 second Ragnaros kill is 80th percentile. Only 20% of guilds kill him that fast.

    I would guess that the majority of classic guilds are worse and less optimized than you think.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-06-29 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I don't think you'll be able to just zerg her without world buffs. Maybe in a guild with a million warriors.

    If you go in with zero NR the whole melee group (well 15 of them) is taking ~2,500 damage every ~2-3 seconds and Huhuran sleeps the whole melee group for 15 seconds (with a 4,000 damage hit if you dispel) it'd be pretty easy to die.

    Just going to point out that warcraftlogs shows that a 90 second Ragnaros kill is 80th percentile. Only 20% of guilds kill him that fast.

    I would guess that the majority of classic guilds are worse and less optimized than you think.
    Huhuran is much more comparable to Ebonroc or Flamegor, not Ragnaros though, idk why he used him as an example.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    Huhuran is much more comparable to Ebonroc or Flamegor, not Ragnaros though, idk why he used him as an example.
    If I understand it correctly you lose a bunch of DPS from the melee group sleep (and a little from the ranged silence) on Huhuran where you wouldn't on Ebonroc or Flamegor.

    Dispelling the melee in phase 2 would be a 6,500 damage hit in under a second would it not?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias View Post
    You're taking for granted that we will need a lot of NR for AQ40, which i highly doubt.
    I have a NR set of about 150NR in my bank, without having a single world boss kill, but i don't think i'll need it once were done with our 2nd kill, our dps is just too high. Huhuran has a bit less hp then Ragnaros and hes a 90sec fight, on a bad attendance day, without world buffs. Tell your raid to save their trinkets and cooldowns for her last 30% and she should melt before your healers go oom.
    AQ40 trash packs will be more annoying then most of the bosses.
    Huhu puts out 2k dmg per second raid wide (some one confirm please) .. Your soakers will need much more than 150 which without crafted P6 gear comes from world bosses?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    The only crafted NR set that is available (since) P4 is the Sandstalker (Mail) one. With P5 we get the Nature Resist Cloak Enchant. P6 adds all other stuff. Which is in line with how things were released back in the original game according to patchnotes.

    You wont have much issues with Huhurans last phase with current DPS / Heal optimizations she will be dead very very quick and before last phase she does nothing dangerous if your hunters tranq. You can still gather some NR without the crafted stuff if you really think you need it.
    If memory serves me right huhu spams raid wide bolts of Nature damage at about 2k on someone without NR?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    If I understand it correctly you lose a bunch of DPS from the melee group sleep (and a little from the ranged silence) on Huhuran where you wouldn't on Ebonroc or Flamegor.

    Dispelling the melee in phase 2 would be a 6,500 damage hit in under a second would it not?
    Yeah but you're supposed to split melee into different camps of 10, you don't stack everyone, compared to rag where most guilds will have melee run out or die. We'll see if summoned units like arcanite dragonlings, barov caller will also be able to soak the sleep or enrage pulse.

    You can actually try Flamegor without removing enrage right now, would be relatively comparable to Huhuran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Huhu puts out 2k dmg per second raid wide (some one confirm please) .. Your soakers will need much more than 150 which without crafted P6 gear comes from world bosses?
    She only does her 2k tick during frenzy and enrage phase, which is the last 30%.
    Last edited by WaltherLeopold; 2020-06-29 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    Yeah but you're supposed to split melee into different camps of 10, you don't stack everyone, compared to rag where most guilds will have melee run out or die. We'll see if summoned units like arcanite dragonlings, barov caller will also be able to soak the sleep or enrage pulse.

    You can actually try Flamegor without removing enrage right now, would be relatively comparable to Huhuran.



    She only does her 2k tick during frenzy and enrage phase, which is the last 30%.
    Last 30% of a 90sec fight doing 2k dps = about 10sec of taking 2k damage every sec .. Is that not a wipe with just 150 NR?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Last 30% of a 90sec fight doing 2k dps = about 10sec of taking 2k damage every sec .. Is that not a wipe with just 150 NR?
    It's more like a 60 second fight, most of the damage is loaded into the execute phase. It's going to be tough for guilds that can't pump damage on demand or guilds that have lost wbuffs before getting there.

    I personally think Skeram is much harder than Huhuran though.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Kaneiac's Avatar
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    Its not 2k damage a second. Its every 2 to 3 seconds

    Greater nature potions exist, and so does mara. On my warrior I've got 225 NR unbuffed and I doubt we'll even need that much.

    People stressing about Skeram also perplex me. My original vanilla guild couldn't kill Nefarian before AQ and we were halfway into AQ before we managed to get him down. The dude has like 300k hp and the copies have like 25k. He's going to melt

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Last 30% of a 90sec fight doing 2k dps = about 10sec of taking 2k damage every sec .. Is that not a wipe with just 150 NR?
    It's 2k damage 3 seconds. If you prepot Nature Prot that's 3900-6500 (avg 5200) absorbed, meaning if you're unlucky you'll take no damage from 2 volleys and if you're lucky you'll basically fully absorb the first 3, but on average you'll mostly absorb 3 volleys, which means your soakers are taking almost no damage for the first ~8 seconds or so. 150 NR + NR aura = 210, which is only 105 under cap and still has you resisting a fair amount of casts/damage.

    30% of Huhu's health pool is like 290k, finishing her in 20s (6 volleys) requires 14.5k raid dps or 580 per person if you have CDs up. 1 fury warr with world buffs and reck up is gonna do almost 10% of that by him/herself. Your soakers are probably going to fully absorb the first 3 of those 6 volleys.

    I think people are severely overestimating how difficult this is gonna be with modern play optimization. (Not blaming you either, my guild made up largely of nostalgia goggles/folks unfamiliar with classic raiding are all doing the same panicked rush for NR gear, and my original guild in classic stalled on Huhu because he had bad healers)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by gpunk View Post
    It's 2k damage 3 seconds. If you prepot Nature Prot that's 3900-6500 (avg 5200) absorbed, meaning if you're unlucky you'll take no damage from 2 volleys and if you're lucky you'll basically fully absorb the first 3, but on average you'll mostly absorb 3 volleys, which means your soakers are taking almost no damage for the first ~8 seconds or so. 150 NR + NR aura = 210, which is only 105 under cap and still has you resisting a fair amount of casts/damage.

    30% of Huhu's health pool is like 290k, finishing her in 20s (6 volleys) requires 14.5k raid dps or 580 per person if you have CDs up. 1 fury warr with world buffs and reck up is gonna do almost 10% of that by him/herself. Your soakers are probably going to fully absorb the first 3 of those 6 volleys.

    I think people are severely overestimating how difficult this is gonna be with modern play optimization. (Not blaming you either, my guild made up largely of nostalgia goggles/folks unfamiliar with classic raiding are all doing the same panicked rush for NR gear, and my original guild in classic stalled on Huhu because he had bad healers)

  15. #15
    Yeah that guide is stupid, wearing enough gear as a melee to cap resistance is not required. If you have 15 fury warrs/rogues/hunters outputting 1/3 less dps (or in the hunters' case, 3/4 less dps if you have them piling on the boss's hitbox) you're just extending the length of the fight, which defeats the purpose of wearing the gear in the first place (killing the boss before healers go dry). The only reason you'd wear res gear in that instance is if you're genuinely worried about one of your 15 melee soakers not getting a heal for a whole 6 seconds and dying, which means your healers aren't paying attention. A volley hit isn't going to 1-shot any of your soakers unless you're going in with bad gear and literally no stam/HP buffs. It also mentions "killing the boss in 5 minutes" as if it's a daunting task, she has less HP than Rag and even scrub guilds are dropping Rag with a minute or more to spare before Sons.

    I'm sure there are still plenty of guides out there for MC saying DPS need to be wearing fire res gear too. "Commonly accepted" wisdom from 15 years ago that got tossed out when pserver players spent a decade minmaxing the game still finds it way into half these guides.
    Last edited by gpunk; 2020-06-30 at 07:30 AM.

  16. #16
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    People completely overestimating how much NR gear you actually need. The boss does borderline trivial damage prior to 30%. You literally just wait for the wyvern sting to expire and then push the boss below 30% and literally destroy it in no time. That's literally the entire strategy, or how you 'optimize' the boss beyond equipping your soakers with NR (which isn't necessary).

    You don't need to link similar HP values or compare it to Ragnaros, nor do people need to link what the upper twentieth percentile does in regards to 'speed' clears. The only important damage metric is how fast you can do the last what, ~300k on the boss? Rogues and warriors popping CDs are going to shred the boss insanely quick.

    The only issue with this boss is going to be people who have classic brains (popping everything immediately on the pull) and not having anything to just nuke her below 30%. The boss does do decent damage if you don't go in prepared (prepared means, saving CDs) and some guilds might get overwhelmed because of it.

    Whether or not people have issues on it is completely up in the air, but at best people might have to progress a couple attempts on the boss at best?

    15 years ago my guild never used NR gear, and just asked that people bring a single NR pot to pop prior to the 30% burn. We also timed curse of dooms to go off and shit like that, but that was entirely not necessary. The Alliance on our server DOMINATED world bosses, with the entirety of the Horde maybe getting half a dozen green dragons in a six month period, meaning that the people who used NR gear literally used Mara gear.

    All of this is pretty old intelligence, based on how people use to approach the game. When classic was launching people cited that it would be impossible without a well equipped raid with FR, and now people are thinking that NR is going to important. I'll tell you right now it's going to be the exact same scenario.

    Classic is very easy in regards to raiding. Does it get harder? Yeah, and some guilds might take a marginal amount of time to clear the instance (more than BWL). But it's no where near what the live raiding scene is like.

  17. #17
    Huhuran at 30% is essentially like Shazzrah except with less health, and even a lot of mediocre guilds have sub-30 second kill records on him. It's really not that big a deal.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gpunk View Post
    Huhuran at 30% is essentially like Shazzrah except with less health, and even a lot of mediocre guilds have sub-30 second kill records on him. It's really not that big a deal.
    It's quite a bit more than that.

    https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=19...cane-explosion 925-1025 arcane damage every ~4-5 seconds.

    00:00:04.043 Shazzrah Arcane Explosion
    00:00:08.089 Shazzrah Arcane Explosion


    Huhuran does ~2500 every 2 seconds. So the damage is roughly five times higher without the curse and 2.5 times higher with Shazzrah's curse up.


    Not saying you'll need NR or not, but it's a lot more damage than Shazzrah.

  19. #19
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Don't overlook the NR pants you get from doing the quests in Silithus and then the final raid quest, The Calling. The pants are 25 NR all by themselves.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    People completely overestimating how much NR gear you actually need. The boss does borderline trivial damage prior to 30%. You literally just wait for the wyvern sting to expire and then push the boss below 30% and literally destroy it in no time. That's literally the entire strategy, or how you 'optimize' the boss beyond equipping your soakers with NR (which isn't necessary).

    You don't need to link similar HP values or compare it to Ragnaros, nor do people need to link what the upper twentieth percentile does in regards to 'speed' clears. The only important damage metric is how fast you can do the last what, ~300k on the boss? Rogues and warriors popping CDs are going to shred the boss insanely quick.

    The only issue with this boss is going to be people who have classic brains (popping everything immediately on the pull) and not having anything to just nuke her below 30%. The boss does do decent damage if you don't go in prepared (prepared means, saving CDs) and some guilds might get overwhelmed because of it.

    Whether or not people have issues on it is completely up in the air, but at best people might have to progress a couple attempts on the boss at best?

    15 years ago my guild never used NR gear, and just asked that people bring a single NR pot to pop prior to the 30% burn. We also timed curse of dooms to go off and shit like that, but that was entirely not necessary. The Alliance on our server DOMINATED world bosses, with the entirety of the Horde maybe getting half a dozen green dragons in a six month period, meaning that the people who used NR gear literally used Mara gear.

    All of this is pretty old intelligence, based on how people use to approach the game. When classic was launching people cited that it would be impossible without a well equipped raid with FR, and now people are thinking that NR is going to important. I'll tell you right now it's going to be the exact same scenario.

    Classic is very easy in regards to raiding. Does it get harder? Yeah, and some guilds might take a marginal amount of time to clear the instance (more than BWL). But it's no where near what the live raiding scene is like.
    That's all well and good but is there any reason besides parsing to not get the NR? It's not terribly hard, you just run Maraudon orange a few times and grab some crafted greens. Maybe make sandstalker which isn't too bad for warriors and hunters.

    13 of your players (the other two are tanks) will do greatly reduced damage. If you have 10 healers you've still got 15 dps in full dps gear. So at worst you're reducing your damage by ~40%. In reality probably notably less because your soakers spend a lot of time asleep in this encounter with wyvern sting (which they'll resist most of the time with NR) and without NR gear on dispelling them will probably kill them.

    At the same you reduce the boss' damage by ~70%. It's a clear winning proposition from a healing pov and it also means your greater nature protection potions will go a lot farther.

    For guilds that aren't in the top percentiles why take the risk of dying to Huhuran when you could make it foolproof?

    I don't think anyone reasonably thought Molten Core would be helped by FR except on the tank. Ahn'qiraj is a bit tougher tuned.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-06-30 at 09:16 PM.

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