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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Without titan forging you cant really gear in M+ anymore. U get 1 item per week where as if you were mythic raiding you could get multiple items per week depending on how fast your guild progresses.

    Also in M+ you get 1 item per week for doing just 1 dungeon. Thats kinda boring and no challenge from a competitive perspective. You only need to do one 15 to get a 475 piece. Any higher is a waste, where as almost every boss in a raid could have loot until you get that piece.
    Not really true.
    You get 465 items from M+15 Dungeons. These are as good as or better than the items from the Heroic Raid. And getting in a decent MythicRaid is way harder than getting in a decent M+ Group that completes +15 dungeons.

    I agree with the OP that there is a bit "Too Much" gear floating around, but I dont really see a good way to fix that without hurting other aspects of the Game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The very point of RPG's such as WoW is to progress your character (=Acquire more powerful gear).
    That's even been repeated by the Game director himself.

    Mate, this game is 15 years old and you just failed on the very basic of this damn game, Gear is nothing but an alternate way to progress your character beyond the regular leveling process.
    Damn, playing the game because its fun is wrong? Dang, I´ve been doing it wrong the whole time. Jokes aside, sure for many People "Getting gear" is the goal. But especially with Raiding, for probably at least the same amount "Playing the game" is the goal.

    I have a RaidGroup, and we go every week HC NyAlotha, basically from the get go, no one actually needed stuff to begin with, with the exception of one or two BiS Items. Its not really hard or a Challenge, but its fun to get together for a few hours and smash some Abarations/Demons/Nagas or whatever the current raid is.

  2. #82
    The problem isnt that there are different progression paths.

    Raids should feature the best loot in the game(strongest trinkets/set items/weapons)

    HC ilvl should be obtainable from m+, mythic ilvl(or perhaps a bit lower) should be obtainable from weekly chest.

    As long as the best trinkets/weapons/tier gear comes from raids the rest is fine.

    PvP gear should have pvp power and as thus pvp/pve shouldnt be interchangeable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Not really true.
    You get 465 items from M+15 Dungeons. These are as good as or better than the items from the Heroic Raid. And getting in a decent MythicRaid is way harder than getting in a decent M+ Group that completes +15 dungeons.
    Nope. Pugging hc nyalotha is easier then doing a 15+. Most of the bosses in there are just free loot.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I did Mythic in Legion and some in BFA and it didn't feel any more challenging than Heroic, the timings just felt tighter. People blow how hard mythic is out of proportion because they wanna gatekeep the top for exclusivity purposes. It's a big cool kids club circle jerk. That's why there's ever increasing hoops you have to jump through and people only care about world 1st.

    I equate this to Path of Exile players at the top. They've become so bored of the game that they have to go do SSF HC Race to 100 World First Uber Elite Sudden Death Doom Mode and anything below is undesirable.
    Video games just create this ever increasing bar now, it's ridiculous and a bit masochistic.
    howcome many guilds clear heroic in 1 week and same guilds take months to clear mythic?
    you think we wipe for months, to keep it a secret that its actually easy? lol, nice tinfoil hat theory.

  4. #84
    Raiding has never been more meaningless in retail than it is in bfa and likely shadowlands.

    M+ and seasonal catch up mechanics ruin the raid aspect of the game

    It’s why wow classic has more raiders than retail according to wow logs

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    M+ and seasonal catch up mechanics ruin the raid aspect of the game

    It’s why wow classic has more raiders than retail according to wow logs
    How does M+ 'ruin' raiding? How is it related to raiding in any way.

    More people are doing raiding in a game mode where raiding is literally the only pve content at max level and it's so easy you can clear the hardest content in under an hour? Woah that's 5head observation.

  6. #86
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    How does M+ 'ruin' raiding? How is it related to raiding in any way.

    More people are doing raiding in a game mode where raiding is literally the only pve content at max level and it's so easy you can clear the hardest content in under an hour? Woah that's 5head observation.
    It breaks the monopoly on gear that raiding used to have. Again all these threads are thinly veiled attempts to argue that other people shouldn't have nice things.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Raiding has never been more meaningless in retail than it is in bfa and likely shadowlands.

    M+ and seasonal catch up mechanics ruin the raid aspect of the game

    It’s why wow classic has more raiders than retail according to wow logs
    The reason classic has more raiders is that raiding in classic is easier then doing a normal dungeon as 460+ ilvl.

    There is literally nothing challenging in classic atm outside perhaps pvp.

    There is truth to some of what you are saying, but you arent hitting the nail.

    The problem isnt catcup, the problem is that for most people the gear you get from raiding is on par or worse then the gear you get from m+.

    Most people who raid do normal/hc, only a small % does mythic raiding and its always been like this.

    Raids should have the, by far, best weapons and trinkets and should have tier gear. This would give the incentive to raid back.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyCowBro View Post
    Normal dungeons > Heroic dungeons > Mythic dungeons > Mythic+

    LFR raid > Normal raid > Heroic raid > Mythic raid

    You could literally not step foot into a raid and play Mythic+ as your main way of gearing, never seeing any content in raid beyond LFR just to experience the story, and you can hit item level 475.

    Want to experience harder content? time commitment. Grinding dailies. RNG gear drops. find a guild. find 20 other people for mythic. Do visions. Do world bosses. Farm for gold to afford to raid. ect.

    There is a reason that WOTLK had the biggest player base ever in Warcraft history, the game was easy. There was meaningful progression, when you were done gearing in dungeons for that patches current gear, you would look to find a 10 man or 25 man normal raiding guild. The content wasn't that hard, people had fun being able to clear the content, or learn the content together with their guild. I remember Naxx being easily puggable, Ulduar also wasn't half bad.

    The point I am trying to make is that there's simply to many ways to get gear. Raids used to have this feeling of curiosity and people wanted to explore them. Instead of making it widely available via LFR, you had no other choice but to either commit to a guild to see the content, or you didn't get any better gear. It was that simple.

    I'd rather see a system like this again then the current. I came back after a 5 year hiatus, found a guild to do Mythic+ and start raiding, and cleared LFR Nyalotha to see the content because I'm so many months behind on my cape. SO many trolls in LFR now, just ridiculous that this game mode is even still in development.

    What are your thoughts on how raiding/gearing is laid out?
    yeah,there were 2 reasons why wrath was high,people loved arthas and the expansion came after a strong tbc,and also wrath was hello kitty care bare easy mode,casual games always keep players playing,you could get amazing gear in easy heroics and the easiest raids ever,today m+ isnt easy mythic raid isnt easy for the averege casual so ofc the game cant retain them

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Nope. Pugging hc nyalotha is easier then doing a 15+.
    I was talking about a MythicRaid. Because a weekly 475 Item is basically what you would Expect from pugging a MythicRaid.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Most of the bosses in there are just free loot.
    True, but tell that to the Countless groups who cant even get past 4 bosses. Honestly, I´ve jumped into the Occasional Pug in Hopes for the Raden weapons, and Honestly, I dont even join them before they are going in the direction of Hivemind anymore, because its annoying af to struggle through to there with the average raid, only to crumble at HiveMind for some reason.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It breaks the monopoly on gear that raiding used to have. Again all these threads are thinly veiled attempts to argue that other people shouldn't have nice things.
    Mythic raidiong should have a monopoly on the best items in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    yeah,there were 2 reasons why wrath was high,people loved arthas and the expansion came after a strong tbc,and also wrath was hello kitty care bare easy mode,casual games always keep players playing,you could get amazing gear in easy heroics and the easiest raids ever,today m+ isnt easy mythic raid isnt easy for the averege casual so ofc the game cant retain them
    Someone here obviously didnt play wrath raids.

    Hc raids in wrath where harder tuned then anything before it. Some of the hardmodes in Ulduar aswell(firefighter comes to mind).

    Comparing that to all of classic or most of tbc and saying it was easy is absolutely ridiculous

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyCowBro View Post
    Normal dungeons > Heroic dungeons > Mythic dungeons > Mythic+

    LFR raid > Normal raid > Heroic raid > Mythic raid

    You could literally not step foot into a raid and play Mythic+ as your main way of gearing, never seeing any content in raid beyond LFR just to experience the story, and you can hit item level 475.
    "too many forms of different progression" and you've listed one. ONE. dungeons are relevant again, that is a good thing. do you really want to go back to the days of pre-Legion where dungeons stopped being relevant at all?

    this is yet another example of someone who has come back (after a 5 year hiatus), found a guild and has suddenly decided that LFR sucks (I agree with you there) and is all but saying it shouldn't be there. why are people SO FUCKING OBSESSED with how other people play? assuming OP isn't trolling (1 post account) then he has found a guild to raid in and do M+ in yet still feels the need to dictate to others how they should play

  12. #92
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    Most BiS Azerite pieces come from Nyalotha Mythic, especially the Carapace and Nzoth ones at 485->490ilvl. Also both bosses drop 485ilvl items. For example my mage can get BiS weap pants and shoulders just from Carapace.

    Some really good trinkets like Xanesh and Raden, and unique corruptions like Lash of the Void are acquired only through raids. Same for the Claw trinket for PvP players. Raids provide a performance boost to high end mythic+ players.

  13. #93
    Some people like to pay Blizzard 49.99 every two years and 14.99 every month to log on and go afk for gear they won't use beyond equipping it. Of course this should be where all the resources in a game go. They just pay. Pay pay pay. Target them. Take their money. Thank you!

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    Most BiS Azerite pieces come from Nyalotha Mythic, especially the Carapace and Nzoth ones at 485->490ilvl. Also both bosses drop 485ilvl items. For example my mage can get BiS weap pants and shoulders just from Carapace.

    Some really good trinkets like Xanesh and Raden, and unique corruptions like Lash of the Void are acquired only through raids. Same for the Claw trinket for PvP players. Raids provide a performance boost to high end mythic+ players.
    Its not enough of a difference. Most noteworthy are obviously dual lash of the void for demonhunters for m+. The rest are only slight upgrades.
    There is a reason a lot of guilds took nzoth on mythic once or twice and then just stopped.(thats not exactly the norm)

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I think the game could do with a few less raid modes (is there even a need for BOTH normal and HC to exist?) but I'm enjoying raiding overall. Being a mythic raider now feels a lot more prestigious/challenging than it did when I did it in WotLK for example.
    One could definitely remove atleast one difficulty, preferably two (combine LFR + normal and Heroic + Mythic). Just adjust the difficulty curve a little bit (doesn't need to be that much since later heroic bosses are already more challenging than first mythic ones)

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    One could definitely remove atleast one difficulty, preferably two (combine LFR + normal and Heroic + Mythic). Just adjust the difficulty curve a little bit (doesn't need to be that much since later heroic bosses are already more challenging than first mythic ones)
    I dont mind combining normal + lfr, but hc and mythic has totally different target audiences. It would either trivialize the entire hardcore raid community or remove content from the largest segment of raiders in wow.

    Both are pretty stupid

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyCowBro View Post
    Normal dungeons > Heroic dungeons > Mythic dungeons > Mythic+

    LFR raid > Normal raid > Heroic raid > Mythic raid

    You could literally not step foot into a raid and play Mythic+ as your main way of gearing, never seeing any content in raid beyond LFR just to experience the story, and you can hit item level 475.

    Want to experience harder content? time commitment. Grinding dailies. RNG gear drops. find a guild. find 20 other people for mythic. Do visions. Do world bosses. Farm for gold to afford to raid. ect.

    There is a reason that WOTLK had the biggest player base ever in Warcraft history, the game was easy. There was meaningful progression, when you were done gearing in dungeons for that patches current gear, you would look to find a 10 man or 25 man normal raiding guild. The content wasn't that hard, people had fun being able to clear the content, or learn the content together with their guild. I remember Naxx being easily puggable, Ulduar also wasn't half bad.

    The point I am trying to make is that there's simply to many ways to get gear. Raids used to have this feeling of curiosity and people wanted to explore them. Instead of making it widely available via LFR, you had no other choice but to either commit to a guild to see the content, or you didn't get any better gear. It was that simple.

    I'd rather see a system like this again then the current. I came back after a 5 year hiatus, found a guild to do Mythic+ and start raiding, and cleared LFR Nyalotha to see the content because I'm so many months behind on my cape. SO many trolls in LFR now, just ridiculous that this game mode is even still in development.

    What are your thoughts on how raiding/gearing is laid out?
    I'd like more ways to get gear and I dislike that I can't farm 475 from m+ and must do mythic raids or be lucky when opening the weekly chest. Don't get me wrong, I like doing mythic raids and I do, but I can't farm them more than once per week. I guess you can get high ilvl from PvP? Never been over like 2100 rating and that was in WotLK :P

    Point being, I think that we should be able to get max ilvl gear from many more things than currently.
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    I'm going to get a lot of flack but I don't give a shit.

    1) M+ gear, regardless of difficulty, should never ever be better than raiding gear. Oh you did +25 key? Get normal raid gear, sorry buddy. Good job. Pat yourself on the back. It's a dungeon. Get raid gear, go farther in M+ for prestige. That's about it. The reward system for M+ should be cosmetics, not gear.
    A quick fix would be to make gear content specific. Raid gear is good in raids but mediocre in Mythic+ and PvP, etc. That way people won't be "forced" to do content they don't care about.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    I'd like more ways to get gear and I dislike that I can't farm 475 from m+ and must do mythic raids or be lucky when opening the weekly chest. Don't get me wrong, I like doing mythic raids and I do, but I can't farm them more than once per week. I guess you can get high ilvl from PvP? Never been over like 2100 rating and that was in WotLK :P

    Point being, I think that we should be able to get max ilvl gear from many more things than currently.
    Mythic raiding is the peak of wow. Its the combination of hard pve encounters + working with other people and forming a community around that.

    It should have the best rewards in wow.

    THe weekly chest, imo, should reward ilvl in between hc and mythic raiding.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Mythic raidiong should have a monopoly on the best items in the game.

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    Someone here obviously didnt play wrath raids.

    Hc raids in wrath where harder tuned then anything before it. Some of the hardmodes in Ulduar aswell(firefighter comes to mind).

    Comparing that to all of classic or most of tbc and saying it was easy is absolutely ridiculous
    oh boy,actualy i did play it since day 1,wrath was the only expansion i played 100% pvp and pve to its fullest rewards getting 2.2 weps and lk 25hc weps,and yeah,some ulduar hard modes were pretty good,and icc had 2-3 good fights,but the worst timegating in wow's history and the biggest and fastest nerfs ruined it quick and made hc an easy mode pugfest,i even tanked 25hc lk wile NEVER having tanked pre icc,and every other raid was a joke,naxx maly sarth,trial

    im not saying tbc was far harder or anything,but overall it was more consistant,plus the bugs and overtuning made tbc rly hard early on

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