View Poll Results: How fast would KT die on a brand new server with gates already open?

Voters
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  • In the first week

    42 22.83%
  • 7-10 days

    22 11.96%
  • 11-13 days

    11 5.98%
  • 14-17 days

    20 10.87%
  • 18-20 days

    7 3.80%
  • 21-24 days

    12 6.52%
  • 25-27 days

    4 2.17%
  • 28-31 days

    19 10.33%
  • 32-34 days

    5 2.72%
  • 35-41 days

    6 3.26%
  • 42-49 days

    6 3.26%
  • 50-90 days

    14 7.61%
  • More than 90 days

    11 5.98%
  • The Lord of Naxx Shall Live Forever

    4 2.17%
  • Write-in

    1 0.54%
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  1. #1

    If they released a server with everything open, how fast would Naxx get cleared?

    This would actually be a lot of fun to watch, IMO. I correctly predicted Rag would die under a week, but even the best players in the world can't roll in to Naxx toting greens and blues and expect Patchwerk and Loatheb to fall over.

    It would still probably happen absurdly quickly through insane grinding of reputation (Zandalar, Cenarion Circle, Brood of Nozdormu, Argent Dawn, plus tier 0.5 would be available). I guess the question becomes can AQ40 be cleared in ZG and AQ20 gear, which I have a hunch the best players in the world min/maxing an ideal raid comp certainly could.

    So even though I don't think C'thun would make it 14 days, I still don't see Loatheb or 4H falling over until they have 2-3 full clears of AQ40, 4-5 Onyxia clears, and 8-9 ZG and AQ20 clears.

    Although the faster it opens, the more luck matters in drops too. Actually it also makes a big difference if BWL can be cleared in the first reset. I'm guessing it could be because warriors do so well on Vael but it'd also be interesting because if a player lost their Onyxia buff there'd literally be no one else on the server that could provide it.

    That first reset is super critical. I'm not sure if people can level fast enough without layer hopping or that bug that let them get full experience in a raid. There's just so much to do in that first week, because someone has to get Hydraxian rep, someone has to get the UBRS key, someone has to level leatherworking for the cloaks, they wouldn't be able to get 500 Hand of Justices and Savage Gladiator Chain, etc.

    I also don't know how much of a problem frost resist gear is in Naxx, do people even wear it or is it just potions + insanely high dps now?

    Assumptions:
    --The guild has the server to itself for the first week, therefore it's easy to level, get black lotus, and get world dragons but they must make all their own arcanite and mooncloth, farm up the recipes for flasks, provide their own onyxia head buffs, get their own edgemaster's, etc.
    --No multi-boxing
    --No layering
    --No bug with the raid group getting full xp

    I think it's hard enough that the winning strategy would involve doing splits. But it'd be interesting to see if the winning team would choose to, say, farm Hand of Justice first or immediately work on alts to get a split done in the second reset. Because anything that Naxx trash drops could also be farmed, which might be better than splits.

    This would be a lot of fun to watch but to do it responsibly Blizzard would probably have to shut the server down for 12 hours / day or something.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2020-07-02 at 12:06 AM.
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  2. #2
    I find this more interesting than watching Mythic+ races. It would be good to see what a group of people could do within, say 30-60 days.

  3. #3
    And I'm sure some of the extra-curricular players already know the answer to this question as well.
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  4. #4
    I thought MC would take until the second week to finish.

    I was wrong.

    After seeing how high the DPS was through MC, I don't think Naxx is that much of a problem. I think a guild will still do it within two weeks, because the DPS checks aren't nearly as hard as people may think.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I thought MC would take until the second week to finish.

    I was wrong.

    After seeing how high the DPS was through MC, I don't think Naxx is that much of a problem. I think a guild will still do it within two weeks, because the DPS checks aren't nearly as hard as people may think.
    Naxx in general is not a DPS check.

    You can't do Patchwerk, not because because there's a lack of DPS in p1 style gear/prebis, but because your offtanks don't have 9k hp and 10k armor.

    You won't be able to do Sapphiron because you don't have enough mana on healers with everyone taking 600 damage/second. (takes about 5 seconds to kill a healer/caster)

    Same with KT, the entire raid takes 2,5-3k damage every 15 sec, unavoidable mana detonation will make the healers oom very quickly.

    This is all assuming you play perfectly, no one in the raid messes up at any point or is hit by any avoidable mechanic.

    Even if you could kill Patchwerk somehow, you maybe have to spend 8h per wing and re-apply world buffs everytime you run out or wipe to trash packs, you physically can not get past Sapphiron.

    Like, do I think it's doable to do it in a month? Probably, you'd have to change your raid roster dozens of times throughout the same raid ID just to clear singular packs and bosses and keep switching to the most optimal setup every time.

    I think you can probably gear in a way that will let you kill patchwerk in a month, I don't think it's feasibly doable for any group currently in play though.
    Last edited by WaltherLeopold; 2020-07-02 at 03:07 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    Naxx in general is not a DPS check.

    You can't do Patchwerk, not because because there's a lack of DPS in p1 style gear/prebis, but because your offtanks don't have 9k hp and 10k armor.

    You won't be able to do Sapphiron because you don't have enough mana on healers with everyone taking 600 damage/second. (takes about 5 seconds to kill a healer/caster)

    Same with KT, the entire raid takes 2,5-3k damage every 15 sec, unavoidable mana detonation will make the healers oom very quickly.

    This is all assuming you play perfectly, no one in the raid messes up at any point or is hit by any avoidable mechanic.

    Even if you could kill Patchwerk somehow, you maybe have to spend 8h per wing and re-apply world buffs everytime you run out or wipe to trash packs, you physically can not get past Sapphiron.
    Oh, I get that it would be extremely difficult, but I think there's a few guilds who could pull it off. After watching them level to 60, and crash themselves through MC, I think an extra week would get them to a point that they could pull it off. Naxx is certainly a different beast than MC, but I have learned to not doubt the will of the no-lifers when it comes to beating something quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Oh, I get that it would be extremely difficult, but I think there's a few guilds who could pull it off. After watching them level to 60, and crash themselves through MC, I think an extra week would get them to a point that they could pull it off. Naxx is certainly a different beast than MC, but I have learned to not doubt the will of the no-lifers when it comes to beating something quickly.
    I mean, I don't disagree that they can probably accomplish things that are generally unthinkable, it's just the maths behind the entire raid taking 600 dmg/sec for a 10 min fight with that gear level.

    Had it been an avoidable mechanic, I think given enough time they would brute force their way through the content by getting perfect attempts through willpower, but unfortunately a blanket damage zone across the entire raid room is going to be a wall.

    For instance, I think they would be able to clear AQ40, quite handily even because there's only one boss in there with unavoidable mechanics.
    Last edited by WaltherLeopold; 2020-07-02 at 03:17 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    I mean, I don't disagree that they can probably accomplish things that are generally unthinkable, it's just the maths behind the entire raid taking 600 dmg/sec for a 10 min fight with that gear level.

    Had it been an avoidable mechanic, I think given enough time they would brute force their way through the content by getting perfect attempts through willpower, but unfortunately a blanket damage zone across the entire raid room is going to be a wall.
    You may be right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  9. #9
    Absurd poll. Try not to get cut on Occam's razor.

    The programming wasn't designed to accommodate such unrealistic hypotheticals and would probably crash anyway.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by parasight View Post
    Absurd poll. Try not to get cut on Occam's razor.

    The programming wasn't designed to accommodate such unrealistic hypotheticals and would probably crash anyway.
    This is a word salad xD
    1) occams razor has nothing to do with this situation, since every hypothesis has the same number of factors

    2) this isn’t a programming issue

  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    2 months at most.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Whitedragon's Avatar
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    I bet on 28-31 days. Within 4 weeks top try hard guilds have had 4 shots at armor, and baring very poor luck most groups can scrap together what they need from that.

  13. #13
    I also think it’d be really interesting how fast a team could get Anub’Rekhan or Razuvious.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they could be dropped before the end of the second week.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    You won't be able to do Sapphiron because you don't have enough mana on healers with everyone taking 600 damage/second. (takes about 5 seconds to kill a healer/caster)

    Same with KT, the entire raid takes 2,5-3k damage every 15 sec, unavoidable mana detonation will make the healers oom very quickly.
    We are talking about people playing with absolute mathematically perfect setups though, are you sure they wouldn't just race the oom and beat the boss before it happens?

    In this scenario I would be exceptionally surprised if anything in Naxx lived past reset #2.
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  15. #15
    More importatly, will the ashbringer quest still be there?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    We are talking about people playing with absolute mathematically perfect setups though, are you sure they wouldn't just race the oom and beat the boss before it happens?

    In this scenario I would be exceptionally surprised if anything in Naxx lived past reset #2.
    Sure, but how much gear can you actually saturate a raid with in 2 weeks outside of prebis.

    You'd have to get world buffs for every fight, bar maybe a few and then get new world buffs if any healer, tank ever dies, looking back at videos from p1 and p2, players really didn't have a lot of HP in prebis or even semi bis setups. Even today full buffed I only have 6k~HP on my warlock (non bp), that's only 10 seconds of Sapphiron ticking at me.

    Like, if you were to run a million simulated runs using some sort of AI, then yes you might get somewhere, but actual players it's highly dubious.

    Also i'm pretty sure there was a private server, run by the same crew that ran Elysium that was exactly this, it released and had 1.12 content from day 1.
    Last edited by WaltherLeopold; 2020-07-02 at 06:21 AM.

  17. #17
    Probably 2-3 weeks for most hardcore guilds i guess.

  18. #18
    I can see mc/ony/bwl/zg falling on week1. Maybe even aq40 and 20 (if we assume the gates are open).
    With 2 more resests of gear theys hould be able to take on most of naxx with some bosses needing worldbuffs.

    Im thinking in the end sapphiron might become the hardest obsticle. Frost res isnt very easy to get.. and theres alot to heal without it.
    Either that or just gearing tanks. One of the two will be the bottle neck. Dps should be fine with worldbuff used on some harder dps checks enocunters.

    Id say 5th reset.


    Edit: just realized. a guild of 160ppl funneling gear to a selected 40ppl that will go into naxx would be able to accumulate gear really fast. However, frostress will remain a real bitch. Sapphiron and even kt will be hard.
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2020-07-02 at 06:39 AM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    Sure, but how much gear can you actually saturate a raid with in 2 weeks outside of prebis.

    You'd have to get world buffs for every fight, bar maybe a few and then get new world buffs if any healer, tank ever dies, looking back at videos from p1 and p2, players really didn't have a lot of HP in prebis or even semi bis setups. Even today full buffed I only have 6k~HP on my warlock (non bp), that's only 10 seconds of Sapphiron ticking at me.

    Like, if you were to run a million simulated runs using some sort of AI, then yes you might get somewhere, but actual players it's highly dubious.

    Also i'm pretty sure there was a private server, run by the same crew that ran Elysium that was exactly this, it released and had 1.12 content from day 1.
    More variables need to be declared to really answer this question. How many people are allowed to be competing? Just the 40? Or can it be a guild of 400 that will funnel gear from tier 1 & 2 into 4 people from the main raid in 10 split raids?
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    More variables need to be declared to really answer this question. How many people are allowed to be competing? Just the 40? Or can it be a guild of 400 that will funnel gear from tier 1 & 2 into 4 people from the main raid in 10 split raids?
    Maybe, maybe not. I personally think that concept to be absurd, and totally counter to the spirit of the question.

    The objective hurdles of an entire raid taking a collective 24k damage/second seems very steep to me, I don't see it happening in 2 weeks.

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