Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #101
    Personally, I am hoping we get a dragon themed class like we see on the timeless isle. It showed a tank, healer and a dps. Though I do feel we need a new ranged class desperately. We have had no ranged additions since the game came out. Even lost 1 ranged spec.

    I feel adding a 4th spec would accomplish a lot too. They had a great way with gladiator dps. It was fun and unique in how it dealt damage and how it was presented. Only downside it had was that it didn't scale well and they basically gave up half way through the expansion on it as a result.

    We need things like that to get this going. More ranged is also always a plus.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    I'll add that I think most players just stick with what they used to play. How many DHs do you see? Maybe 10% at most? That's not only a lot of development effort to design and balance another class, but it's constant upkeep for everything in the future from balance to new armor sets. And people wonder why they stopped making class based armor...
    exactly. but people are dumb af and cant see it.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Loved DK launch. All races. Three specs. Great class fantasy.
    Liked the Monk launch. All races. Three specs. Divisive class fantasy.
    Hated the DH launch. Only two races. Only two specs. Class premise was great, ruined by lack of options.

    The only positive I can gleam from a DH launch is that at least going forward for new classes they can only go up from two races and two specs - like, what're they gonna do, have it only one race with one spec? I attempt to use hyperbole here, but with how some future class discussions go, sometimes it seems like it could end up like that. Monk very well could have ended up as a one-race class, and if that had happened and DH had gotten all races we'd probably be singing a very obvious chorus to all new classes needing all races going forward - and I don't even think it'd be that wrong to do so.
    DHs in lore really didn't have options to go from really. I think they did fine with only two specs as opposed to making a third just becasue. There was no need. As for the way they were introduced, there were only NEs and BEs. It's not like there was a cadre of other races being trained nor, did they come back from TBC and train other races. I abandoned my Paladin who I've had since launch to play DH since I found it so fun to play.I don't really like elves but that never ruined my play experience.

    Whether the next class has 1, 2, or 3 specs doesn't really matter. I hate tradition for traditions sake and there was no need for 2 DH specs. I frankly feel the tank spec was sort of tacked on. I would have been fine with just Havoc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    I'll add that I think most players just stick with what they used to play. How many DHs do you see? Maybe 10% at most? That's not only a lot of development effort to design and balance another class, but it's constant upkeep for everything in the future from balance to new armor sets. And people wonder why they stopped making class based armor...
    You do realize there are 12 specs. You are not getting too many 2 digit distribution numbers.

    https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes

    Level 120 class distribution Global

    Druid 11% 10.5%
    Paladin 10.6% 10.1%
    Demon Hunter 9.8% 9%
    Warrior 8.8% 9.1%
    Hunter 8.6% 9%
    Mage 8.2% 8.6%
    Rogue 8.2% 7.9%
    Death Knight 7.5% 7.9%
    Priest 7% 7.3%
    Warlock 6.9% 7.3%
    Shaman 7.1% 7.1%
    Monk 6.2% 6.3%


    So being at 9-9.8% of all classes puts DHs in the top third of played classes. Looks like they should just stop all development on DKs, Priests, Warlocks, Shaman, and Monks since they are so far below that waste that is DHs in your mind.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    No, it needs to have good system and class and endgame design. Stop with this obsession with new classes and races. Good designs tramples all of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing, people have made this mistake over and over, but "new players" are not interested in mmos and stuff. Its a different generation and different tastes, they prefer battle royales and fast games. WoW needs to be design for veterans, its the only way to keep WoW alive.
    A nice point but I can give you an equal argument.

    I amoung many people I know and many on the internet took one gaze at Shadowlands, asked whats actually there to enjoy, and then shrugged, eye'd diablo 4 with more interest, and started looking at other mmo's.

    Content matters, and content thats basically a giant super patch is not content, covenants are not content, covenants are a corruption/light-shadow-forge/azerite/artifact farm replacement thats just another "will be forgotten by 9.2" content.

    A new class is permanent, its something woven into the core of the game, this was imho the best time to add something like a new hero class combo, warden/dark ranger woulda been perfect given the massive amount of night elf/undead themes weaving into post BFA storyline, with a mirror class system where asthetics and appearences are different but abilities and core scripts are the same.

    Imho, no, the game does need content, but it needs content that remains relevent after a patch.

    Covenants are not going to last the end of Shadowlands, they'll last until they stop being relevent, and once 10.0 comes all the covenant abilities will be removed, we wont see it again, and we'll have literally no reason to care.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    A nice point but I can give you an equal argument.

    I amoung many people I know and many on the internet took one gaze at Shadowlands, asked whats actually there to enjoy, and then shrugged, eye'd diablo 4 with more interest, and started looking at other mmo's.

    Content matters, and content thats basically a giant super patch is not content, covenants are not content, covenants are a corruption/light-shadow-forge/azerite/artifact farm replacement thats just another "will be forgotten by 9.2" content.

    A new class is permanent, its something woven into the core of the game, this was imho the best time to add something like a new hero class combo, warden/dark ranger woulda been perfect given the massive amount of night elf/undead themes weaving into post BFA storyline, with a mirror class system where asthetics and appearences are different but abilities and core scripts are the same.

    Imho, no, the game does need content, but it needs content that remains relevent after a patch.

    Covenants are not going to last the end of Shadowlands, they'll last until they stop being relevent, and once 10.0 comes all the covenant abilities will be removed, we wont see it again, and we'll have literally no reason to care.
    CLasses are not the only content that can be relevant after a patch. Thats why.

  6. #106
    I would like a new class but I don't think the game needs a new class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    They had a great way with gladiator dps. It was fun and unique in how it dealt damage and how it was presented. Only downside it had was that it didn't scale well and they basically gave up half way through the expansion on it as a result.
    Did Gladiator not scale well? I remember it doing really well on launch and I believe it got nerfed and I thought that's why it ended up not doing as well but was there scaling issues too?
    My Collection
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    The expansion after shadowlands absolutely needs a hero class to drive in new players and increase hype.

    We saw with both DKs and DHs that it brought incredible hype and many new players to the game. Having a class start at a high level with cool concepts drove in many new players. Most DHs mains I have spoken to started playing in Legion (as a lot of players keep their mains forever and stay loyal).

    I dont care if its Tinkerers or Necromancers or Shadow hunters it needs to happen to drive in hype and dreams.
    As much as I'd love that, they need to fix the game before keep adding to it.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    DHs in lore really didn't have options to go from really. I think they did fine with only two specs as opposed to making a third just becasue. There was no need. As for the way they were introduced, there were only NEs and BEs. It's not like there was a cadre of other races being trained nor, did they come back from TBC and train other races. I abandoned my Paladin who I've had since launch to play DH since I found it so fun to play.I don't really like elves but that never ruined my play experience.

    Whether the next class has 1, 2, or 3 specs doesn't really matter. I hate tradition for traditions sake and there was no need for 2 DH specs. I frankly feel the tank spec was sort of tacked on. I would have been fine with just Havoc.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You do realize there are 12 specs. You are not getting too many 2 digit distribution numbers.

    https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes

    Level 120 class distribution Global

    Druid 11% 10.5%
    Paladin 10.6% 10.1%
    Demon Hunter 9.8% 9%
    Warrior 8.8% 9.1%
    Hunter 8.6% 9%
    Mage 8.2% 8.6%
    Rogue 8.2% 7.9%
    Death Knight 7.5% 7.9%
    Priest 7% 7.3%
    Warlock 6.9% 7.3%
    Shaman 7.1% 7.1%
    Monk 6.2% 6.3%


    So being at 9-9.8% of all classes puts DHs in the top third of played classes. Looks like they should just stop all development on DKs, Priests, Warlocks, Shaman, and Monks since they are so far below that waste that is DHs in your mind.
    I don't think you're understanding. It's a huge overhead for a new class, which will only affect around 10% at most. In other words, the addition of a new class is literally not content to 90% of people. New content that actually affects 100% or nearly 100% of players is a better investment of resources.

  9. #109
    Where's the poll to vote No?

    There are way too many classes already, they could, however, introduce new specs to existing classes or modify some of them. (Shaman/Warlock/Priest Tank, Mid ranged physical-based Rogue/Warrior, Ranged Magic Based Demon Hunter/Death Knight) And they can also loosen up some class/race combos; like Monk for all races, etc.
    Last edited by javierdsv; 2020-07-06 at 03:19 AM.

  10. #110
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    32,405
    Hype to who exactly? I don't think that hype makes any difference whatsoever at this point.

    The game really doesn't need any more classes, much less another three or four specs to balance.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by javierdsv View Post
    Where's the poll to vote No?

    There are way too many classes already, they could, however, introduce new specs to existing classes or modify some of them. (Shaman/Warlock/Priest Tank, Mid ranged physical-based Rogue/Warrior, Ranged Magic Based Demon Hunter/Death Knight) And they can also loosen up some class/race combos; like Monk for all races, etc.
    too many classes, but lets add more specs. yeah, not a great idea. and the good news is that blizzard has figured out adding classes not a great idea either. come back in 2 years and see if they change their minds.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    I don't think you're understanding. It's a huge overhead for a new class, which will only affect around 10% at most. In other words, the addition of a new class is literally not content to 90% of people. New content that actually affects 100% or nearly 100% of players is a better investment of resources.
    Your kidding yourself if you think only 10% of people have played a DH. A new class is a big deal for many people.

  13. #113
    I can hardly imagine another hero class being as hype as DH or DK though. Those are old lore favorites since Wc3. I don't think Monk had anywhere near the same level of hype.

    Perhaps they can create some kind of lore that would hype people quite a bit and would lead to the new class...

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    WoW needs to be design for veterans, its the only way to keep WoW alive.
    Which is exactly why it needs a new class, as well as a real effort to balance existing classes. Blizzard got super lazy with BFA and Shadowlands and is trying to avoid doing the housekeeping that is required to maintain the game. The new management needs to realize that WoW classes need to be balanced during expansions and if a spec or class is performing poorly it needs to get surgery in the middle of the expansion, not wait until the next expansion. Trying to cram every single change for the game to the release patch of an expansion would be "ok" if, and only if, Blizzard was capable of doing that much work during an alpha and beta cycle. They are not though, they can barely manage to put all of the content they advertise for an expansion, let alone do the other housekeeping to keep the game and classes healthy.

    There needs to be a stronger emphasis on utility heavy, dps lower, type specs in the game to break the dps tunnel vision meta that has existed for a while now that is slowly eroding the game. Abilities that can do cool things, and enable others to do even cooler stuff needs to exist. Basic team work and cooperation abilities need to make it back into the game. Classes like the EQ Enchanter, or the 3.5E Beguiler of the PF1E Mesmerist, specs that have the sole focus of buffing others, debuffing mobs/bosses without the heavy focus on personal healing or damage.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Did Gladiator not scale well? I remember it doing really well on launch and I believe it got nerfed and I thought that's why it ended up not doing as well but was there scaling issues too?
    It was always the scaling issue. They never quite figured out how to get it to scale right so it could remain competitive. It relied heavily on mastery, as did the tanking side of things. All the fine tuning had to be done via the talent.

    They couldn't manage it then, but I believe it could be done now. I never saw it have any nerfs. Just attempts to get it to stay competitive.

    Either way, it could be a good stepping stone into fourth specs. Specs that use the same base spells, but in a different manner or in a new role. Like an arcane mage becoming about blood or going into melee range. We need more ranged though no matter what.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    I don't think you're understanding. It's a huge overhead for a new class, which will only affect around 10% at most. In other words, the addition of a new class is literally not content to 90% of people. New content that actually affects 100% or nearly 100% of players is a better investment of resources.
    I don't think you understand. Only around 10% play any specific class anyways. So in other words all class development is a waste if resources according to your logic. Also can raiding, pet battles, PvP, M+, and pretty much everything besides leveling, quests and WQs/dailies because only a small minority engages with those activities. No point in wasting all those development costs in content that a small % play.
    Last edited by SirBeef; 2020-07-06 at 10:04 AM.

  17. #117
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    9,112
    Why a hero class, specifically? Monk is not one.

    Anyway, I don't want more classes or specs. Mythic+ being the sole reason why. Raids seem to be relatively okay with accepting a wider range of classes and specs (unless you run for the world firsts and such), but not Mythic+ dungeons, even if you run for the lower keys. More specs means more competition, and more competition means there is a higher chance that your spec is not one of the few tuned high enough to be considered good. I kinda blame RaiderIO for reinforcing this behavior.

    I wish Blizzard would take a more active approach in addressing these imbalances, and perhaps Shadowlands will be different with the limitations to AoE, but I'm not holding my breath.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Icoblablubb View Post
    no one talked about pruning .,.. you can shit on WoD all youwan't but the majority if they talk about something good that WoD had going for it was that classes felt good why you come with fucking pruning idk but hey atleast u said something on the internet right?
    Different people have different opinions, I know it's hard concept to understand but maybe one day you will succeed. Pruning and how playstyle feels so much worse was very popular topic.

  19. #119
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,862
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    >DH main

    lol
    I'm not a DH main at all, actually. Don't even play a DH.
    Hi

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    Which is exactly why it needs a new class, as well as a real effort to balance existing classes. Blizzard got super lazy with BFA and Shadowlands and is trying to avoid doing the housekeeping that is required to maintain the game. The new management needs to realize that WoW classes need to be balanced during expansions and if a spec or class is performing poorly it needs to get surgery in the middle of the expansion, not wait until the next expansion. Trying to cram every single change for the game to the release patch of an expansion would be "ok" if, and only if, Blizzard was capable of doing that much work during an alpha and beta cycle. They are not though, they can barely manage to put all of the content they advertise for an expansion, let alone do the other housekeeping to keep the game and classes healthy.

    There needs to be a stronger emphasis on utility heavy, dps lower, type specs in the game to break the dps tunnel vision meta that has existed for a while now that is slowly eroding the game. Abilities that can do cool things, and enable others to do even cooler stuff needs to exist. Basic team work and cooperation abilities need to make it back into the game. Classes like the EQ Enchanter, or the 3.5E Beguiler of the PF1E Mesmerist, specs that have the sole focus of buffing others, debuffing mobs/bosses without the heavy focus on personal healing or damage.
    First of all: l already concede that argument early in this thread.
    Second: veterans are more concern about systems than anything else. See titanforging for example.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •