MMOs like how WoW used to be (not Classic)?

[hulkgor]

SWTOR most likely.

With all its flaws, it's a deeply entertaining game with vasts amounts of content (especially if you never played it before), and also back on track after a couple of 'experimental' expansions (KOTET\KOTFE) that you can easily avoid.

Been having an absolute blast.

[Poppincaps]

SWTOR most likely.

With all its flaws, it's a deeply entertaining game with vasts amounts of content (especially if you never played it before), and also back on track after a couple of 'experimental' expansions (KOTET\KOTFE) that you can easily avoid.

Been having an absolute blast.

I like SWTOR and come back for new content drops, but the reason to play the game is completely different from why someone would play WoW. SWTOR has a great story, but a lot of the endgame PVE content is sparse and not nearly as good as WoW.

Honestly the best game to play that is somewhat like the Wrath-MoP era of WoW is FFXIV. There isn't quite as much endgame content as in WoW, but a lot of it is quite high quality and doesn't require an insane amount of time each week to keep up (maybe like 3-5 hours of play per week will be enough). The downside is that the endgame is gated by a very lengthy main story. The upside is after you get past the base game, the story is insanely good.

[hulkgor]

I like SWTOR and come back for new content drops, but the reason to play the game is completely different from why someone would play WoW. SWTOR has a great story, but a lot of the endgame PVE content is sparse and not nearly as good as WoW

I understand what you're saying, but i'll have to say i disagree. At this point, SWTOR has 25-30 relevant dungeons with various difficulty levels, plus 10-15 'different' sort of dungeons (Star Fortresses and Uprisings), aswell as more than a dozen raids, again, with multiple raid difficulties (some of them very challenging). If you take into consideration we're comparing to WoW earlier days (till wotlk) or even WoW classic, it's a -vast- amount of content, especially for someone who never played it before. Hence why i don't agree with you when you say the content is sparse

In all honesty, i haven't played FFXIV so it may indeed be the closest to a wrath-mop era of wow, but on a personal opinion where i think TBC was WoW's prime, i feel like SWTOR is a very good alternative if you're mostly into group PvE.

I'll have to give FFXIV a go sometime tho, you sold it \o/

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

They don't exist.
You want a fantasy at worst, or a game very few others want at best.
The game we have now is not somehow removed from how it used to be.
The people who played it and made it changed, influenced by media and gaming of the current years, and thus the game changed.

Is that not obvious?

The "speedrun" mentality is a function of competitive content taking over at the forefront of gaming in general, mixed with shorter attention spans that have emerged in the last decade.

You can try to force yourself and others not to feel this way, but its futile.
Even Classic is like this now, and its apparently exactly like it was in 2005 or whatever, right?

No point fighting reality, if you ask me.
Times change, and its important you recognize why.

[Poppincaps]

I understand what you're saying, but i'll have to say i disagree. At this point, SWTOR has 25-30 relevant dungeons with various difficulty levels, plus 10-15 'different' sort of dungeons (Star Fortresses and Uprisings), aswell as more than a dozen raids, again, with multiple raid difficulties (some of them very challenging). If you take into consideration we're comparing to WoW earlier days (till wotlk) or even WoW classic, it's a -vast- amount of content, especially for someone who never played it before. Hence why i don't agree with you when you say the content is sparse

In all honesty, i haven't played FFXIV so it may indeed be the closest to a wrath-mop era of wow, but on a personal opinion where i think TBC was WoW's prime, i feel like SWTOR is a very good alternative if you're mostly into group PvE.

I'll have to give FFXIV a go sometime tho, you sold it \o/

I think the problem is that SWTOR gets updates very infrequently. We don't know when the next patch is going to drop, but more importantly we have no idea what content it's even going to have in it. I would recommend SWTOR to anyone who likes Star Wars and MMOs and just wants to have some casual fun, but there are definitely better MMOs out there if you're looking to get into endgame.

If you do decide to play FFXIV though I wish you luck. The beginning of the game is pretty slow both story wise and combat wise, but if you can stick with it I think you'll find it's worth it. The last expansion, Shadowbringers, is the most fun I've had in an MMO since MoP/Wrath.

[deenman]

Yeah see that sounds infinitely better than M+ as it currently stands they should do that for WoW too. Just the way they seem to have designed the game feels so far from how I envision a MMORPG that I feel it may just be time to move on to something else.

I haven't looked at GW2 in forever (since it came out pretty much), may have to look at it again.

you envisioned an MMORPG to be with solo dungeons instead of group ones?someone needs to google the wor mmo,m+ is fine,they should just add the option with no timer with less loot and thats that

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Dude, you literally have around 40 dungeons with high difficulty (Mastermode) that require groups, how is that solo? Sure, there are solo variations on a couple of them (Story mode for those who want it), but that doesnt detract from the fact that you have dozens upon dozens of challenging dungeons. Guess you didn't explore the content at all

huh?i was saying in response to what he said about diablo 4 having solo m+ like content and how he thinks thats how he envisoned an mmorpgs to be...i didnt say anything about gw2

[Coldkil]

Wait so even a +15 the timer isn't such a huge deal (assuming you don't constantly mess up of course)? Because like everything i see when people talk about M+ is over the timer, how the timer is the most important thing, how you need to skip X and skirt around Y and all this stuff that's bordering on exploits and unintended gameplay and gogogo the clock is ticking. So it makes me equate it with people only caring about the timer because that's all they talk about.

To get the chest you only need to complete a +15, not beat the timer. But people check R.IO and want to do everything as fast as possible, even if it's not needed.

[Rogalicus]

To get the chest you only need to complete a +15, not beat the timer. But people check R.IO and want to do everything as fast as possible, even if it's not needed.

Did they remove +1/+2/+3 chests system?

[Nobleshield]

To get the chest you only need to complete a +15, not beat the timer. But people check R.IO and want to do everything as fast as possible, even if it's not needed.

And that's what I despise. Games have been polluted by the competitive "I need to show I'm better than my peers" attitude everywhere. It's a horribly toxic mentality that has creeped into and infested everything and for some reason it's encouraged rather than stamped out.

I believe I'm doing a M+ with my new guild today. No idea which or what level (not too high I'd assume since I haven't done it before). If I don't like it then I have no idea what to do since Blizzard is doubling down on that design and continues to design the game around this D3 seasonal garbage

[Witchblade77]

SWTOR most likely.

With all its flaws, it's a deeply entertaining game with vasts amounts of content (especially if you never played it before), and also back on track after a couple of 'experimental' expansions (KOTET\KOTFE) that you can easily avoid.

Been having an absolute blast.

"SPACEBARSPACEBARSPACEBAR. come on, SPACEBAR!" on a freaking RP server (to explain for those who do not plays swtor - spacebar skips the cutscenes and shortens conversations also don't let me started on all the weird skips people do, complete with wall climbing and scaling edges and weird jumps as well as stealth stunning mobs, so that you can stick to the wall and skip even MORE pulls - I used to main an operative healer, I was constantly expected to do this in pugs). SWTOR is NOT immune to gogogo and hasn't been since its early release. part of the reason they finally gave all the major story dungeons a dedicated solo mode.

[Super Kami Dende]

FFXIV or SWTOR.

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SWTOR is NOT immune to gogogo and hasn't been since its early release. part of the reason they finally gave all the major story dungeons a dedicated solo mode.

No MMO's are immune to "GOGOGO" its a player mentality not a Game Flaw.

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And that's what I despise. Games have been polluted by the competitive "I need to show I'm better than my peers" attitude everywhere. It's a horribly toxic mentality that has creeped into and infested everything and for some reason it's encouraged rather than stamped out.

What's wrong with competition? being better at something by actually practising and becoming better isn't toxic.

[Witchblade77]

FFXIV or SWTOR.

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No MMO's are immune to "GOGOGO" its a player mentality not a Game Flaw.

exactly the point i keep making in this thread. find people who are also looking to take their time, and it doesn't matter which MMO you play - you would get experience you want. you can find this in WoW retail as well... IF you find people who are on the same page. which given the size of the population, should NOT be an impossibility

[Coldkil]

Did they remove +1/+2/+3 chests system?

no. but for the weekly cache you only need one 15 cleared, not even in time.

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And that's what I despise. Games have been polluted by the competitive "I need to show I'm better than my peers" attitude everywhere. It's a horribly toxic mentality that has creeped into and infested everything and for some reason it's encouraged rather than stamped out.

I believe I'm doing a M+ with my new guild today. No idea which or what level (not too high I'd assume since I haven't done it before). If I don't like it then I have no idea what to do since Blizzard is doubling down on that design and continues to design the game around this D3 seasonal garbage

Honestly, M+ is not bad. You can "abuse" r.io by targeting specific dungeons and increase your rating artificially over time, its not difficult but its way easier if you keep playing consistently. Return after a hiatus and you're gonna have a bad time.

My issue with M+ is thats a so good way to gear up your character, better than the raid, and you have lots BiS in there. To the point most groups/guilds make it mandatory.

IIRC (very big IF), with shadowlands the weekly cache is going to be tied to all kind of content and not m+ only. Which makes me utterly happy and won't have to deal with them never again.

Anyway, since D4 is gonna have basically an iteration of this as endgame, cannot wait for it (cause i think it fits perfectly the genre)

[Nobleshield]

D4 yeah, I don't think that style of gameplay fits a MMORPG.

That said though I did uhh... Junkyard +6 with some guildies today. While we didn't make the timer by about 3 minutes (a lot of us were new so the leader had to explain fights) it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I'm not sold on it as content (and still hate the timer) but it was enjoyable.

[Jamie081]

• Action combat instead of tab-targeting
• Limited skillbar with half of it tied to specific weapons instead of just skill book
• Unified short buff and short debuff system coupled with combo fields and combo finishers as a combat basis instead of skills just dealing damage
• No level cap increase or ilvl raise for 7 years instead of infinite gear grind
• Focus on open world events instead of instances
• At level cap all the world you can have a proper experience in every zone instead of being funneled into few endgame zones with an option to oneshot lower level shit for no reason

So what exactly makes it WoW clone?

Are you really going to list no level cap as a unique thing when masteries are literally levels? lmfao
Next you're going to tell me that hearts are totally different from quests

Wait so even a +15 the timer isn't such a huge deal (assuming you don't constantly mess up of course)? Because like everything i see when people talk about M+ is over the timer, how the timer is the most important thing, how you need to skip X and skirt around Y and all this stuff that's bordering on exploits and unintended gameplay and gogogo the clock is ticking. So it makes me equate it with people only caring about the timer because that's all they talk about.

The whole skipping and skirting isn't exploiting/unintended gameplay at all. It's just players being good. Besides, that type of play is at super high keys above 20+. The vast majority of players aim to do a 15+ key and you just play normally in those.

[Jastall]

While there have been some great raids since WotLK, I think you will find that for many players the class design of BFA is completely pants and worse than WotLK.

Really depends on class. I mainly play Warrior, Warlock and Death Knight and can say without a hint of hesitation that the only spec among the first two that might have been better in Wrath was Arms. DKs are another matter entirely since the class changed so much, but I do believe its Wrath model of specs that can do anything was an unsustainable design and balance nightmare that got phased out as soon as Cata launched for good reason. I certainly enjoy Blood and Unholy as they are now, Frost is another story.

Wrath's class design, while a massive improvement over Classic/TBC's, wasn't the best if you ask me. Now Mists, on the other hand...

[Rogalicus]

Are you really going to list no level cap as a unique thing when masteries are literally levels? lmfao
Next you're going to tell me that hearts are totally different from quests

You can't salvage stupid comparison with even more stupid retort instead of bringing a proper argument, dude, that's not how that works. The only common thing masteries have with levels is you need to gain experience, they don't give more stats or more DPS unlike other pseudo-leveling systems like D3's paragon, ESO's champion or whatever else.

[Jamie081]

You can't salvage stupid comparison with even more stupid retort instead of bringing a proper argument, dude, that's not how that works. The only common thing masteries have with levels is you need to gain experience, they don't give more stats or more DPS unlike other pseudo-leveling systems like D3's paragon, ESO's champion or whatever else.

Mate get over it. You still need to level up to unlock the masteries.

Do you remember raids being introduced? The only thing unique about GW2 raids is that they're now dead in the water because Arenanet don't have the budget to justify making them anymore.

The scaling doesn't mean shit when you can still easily shit on anything as a level 80 in a low level zone. People go to old zones for materials and when new story content tells them to go there. There's no reason otherwise.

The combat is irrelevant when it's wasted on open world story content that gets steamrolled by 40 people spamming their auto-attack chain.

The game is unique in that you're grinding for gold to buy cosmetics off the gemstore, rather than grinding for player power. That's not revolutionary and is probably why the game has been going down the shitter financially for the last few years. It's just not as interesting as its 3 players make it out to be. You're a perfect example of the delusional GW2 player acting like the game is hot shit when it's really not.

[Rogalicus]

Mate get over it. You still need to level up to unlock the masteries.

Do you remember raids being introduced? The only thing unique about GW2 raids is that they're now dead in the water because Arenanet don't have the budget to justify making them anymore.

The scaling doesn't mean shit when you can still easily shit on anything as a level 80 in a low level zone. People go to old zones for materials and when new story content tells them to go there. There's no reason otherwise.

The combat is irrelevant when it's wasted on open world story content that gets steamrolled by 40 people spamming their auto-attack chain.

The game is unique in that you're grinding for gold to buy cosmetics off the gemstore, rather than grinding for player power. That's not revolutionary and is probably why the game has been going down the shitter financially for the last few years. It's just not as interesting as its 3 players make it out to be. You're a perfect example of the delusional GW2 player acting like the game is hot shit when it's really not.

So you couldn't bring any arguments to your "GW2 is a WoW clone" claim and instead switched to shitting on the game. Okay, dude.

[Fkiolaris]

Really depends on class. I mainly play Warrior, Warlock and Death Knight and can say without a hint of hesitation that the only spec among the first two that might have been better in Wrath was Arms. DKs are another matter entirely since the class changed so much, but I do believe its Wrath model of specs that can do anything was an unsustainable design and balance nightmare that got phased out as soon as Cata launched for good reason. I certainly enjoy Blood and Unholy as they are now, Frost is another story.

Wrath's class design, while a massive improvement over Classic/TBC's, wasn't the best if you ask me. Now Mists, on the other hand...

What it depends on is what you are referring to. If it's PvE rotations, I can see why someone would say that. But looking at the whole package and especially how some classes are so gutted in terms of utility, then it's definitely the other way round. At the end of the day this is a subjective matter and off-topic, I just made the original comment to counter the absolute certainty of it in that BFA is better than WotLK in terms of class design.

Edit: I do agree that for most specs and classes, MoP is better than either