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  1. #1

    Would removing the wow token be better for the health of the game?

    I noticed in my little side hobby I do at the end of an expansion ( leveling a fresh alt on a new realm without contacts) that th entry level for a lack of a better term has changed quite drastically.

    There has never been this level of players selling services to one another in any point of the game and from being on the seller's side of it I honestly believe it is fueled by the wow token.

    I'm just undecided if it is a bad thing or not... while buying your way to a geared character is now a option that many utilize you can still create your own pugs and clear content up to and including mythic although it is a bit harder the it used to be.

    I don't really know if this is better or not... it's kind of why I made the thread. While this new normal seems a bit off to me it is allowing people to see content they never would before. While carry runs always existed it really wasn't till the token that the use of then exploded.

    If you or for or against the token though can we all agree it would be nice if blizzard accepted the real life money community they created and made it it's own lfg channel to stop people spamming it else where though.?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    As you pointed out people always sold carries, my guild has regularly selling carries since cata.

    You can see all the content the game has to offer via the finder there is no need to buy a carry to see content.

    I very much doubt people are buying carries to get geared, most people buy them for the achievement and the mounts or at a minimum the RIO.

    Your thesis statement seems to imply that people have more gold because of the token and thus more gold to spend on carries while ignoring that gold income is just generally bonkers. I know I generated more gold from my garrisons in WoD then I have basically from every other expansion combined until that point.

    How does this affect you and your experiment character since you're neither buying or selling carries on them?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    As you pointed out people always sold carries, my guild has regularly selling carries since cata.

    You can see all the content the game has to offer via the finder there is no need to buy a carry to see content.

    I very much doubt people are buying carries to get geared, most people buy them for the achievement and the mounts or at a minimum the RIO.

    Your thesis statement seems to imply that people have more gold because of the token and thus more gold to spend on carries while ignoring that gold income is just generally bonkers. I know I generated more gold from my garrisons in WoD then I have basically from every other expansion combined until that point.

    How does this affect you and your experiment character since you're neither buying or selling carries on them?
    Mostly from personal and flawed information from regular buyers paying me to get them gear in bulk and asking me to either give or take credit prior to a token sale

    It isnt exactly common but it isn't really rare either. They set out a schedule when to gear characters usually for a month at a time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    The question I keep wondering about is, who the hell is buying all this crap with money? Who spends the equivalent of $40 to buy an offhand weapon with the right corruption?

    I also wonder about how reliable a revenue stream that is. In game I used to go nuts farming for the best boes and darkmoon trinks etc. but I eventually stopped because I got good enough that they weren't important.
    It nets me roughly 500k a week with vision carry runs. Though recently I've added another 400k from mythic z'noth runs.

    It's pretty stable gold though it takes a while to get buyers set up otherwise you spend your time in trade chat or lose a cut to a carry discord advertising for you.

  5. #5
    The token put a real life money price tag on every item and most achievements in the game. Of course it is bad. Very, very bad.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I'm referring to the gold buyers. Who are they, and are they going to keep spending huge rl money on the game endlessly?
    I don't know... I've had one spend over 1.5 million alone on vision runs back when they were hard to carry 5 mask and netted massive pay.

    Once the price fell under 100k the buyers started to match the sellers.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    As you pointed out people always sold carries, my guild has regularly selling carries since cata.

    You can see all the content the game has to offer via the finder there is no need to buy a carry to see content.

    I very much doubt people are buying carries to get geared, most people buy them for the achievement and the mounts or at a minimum the RIO.

    Your thesis statement seems to imply that people have more gold because of the token and thus more gold to spend on carries while ignoring that gold income is just generally bonkers. I know I generated more gold from my garrisons in WoD then I have basically from every other expansion combined until that point.

    How does this affect you and your experiment character since you're neither buying or selling carries on them?
    Only like 2200 IO on my main, but I have bought a few carries for the specific reason of gearing up an alt quickly.

    Wow Token prevents folks from spending money on gold selling sites, because more often than not, its a better price.

  8. #8
    Enjoy never needing to pay for membership again it's a win imo

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    The token put a real life money price tag on every item and most achievements in the game. Of course it is bad. Very, very bad.
    There's been a real life money price tag on everything since vanilla (I had friends offer me between $50 to $100 to level them in vanilla). WoW token just makes the transactions safer.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #10
    I'd say the positives outweight the negatives.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I noticed in my little side hobby I do at the end of an expansion ( leveling a fresh alt on a new realm without contacts) that th entry level for a lack of a better term has changed quite drastically.

    There has never been this level of players selling services to one another in any point of the game and from being on the seller's side of it I honestly believe it is fueled by the wow token.

    I'm just undecided if it is a bad thing or not... while buying your way to a geared character is now a option that many utilize you can still create your own pugs and clear content up to and including mythic although it is a bit harder the it used to be.

    I don't really know if this is better or not... it's kind of why I made the thread. While this new normal seems a bit off to me it is allowing people to see content they never would before. While carry runs always existed it really wasn't till the token that the use of then exploded.

    If you or for or against the token though can we all agree it would be nice if blizzard accepted the real life money community they created and made it it's own lfg channel to stop people spamming it else where though.?
    If Blizzard removed the tokens, would that increase or decrease the number of boosts?

    I buy 2 tokens per months to buy consumables for high-end M+, because I don't want to do the content I don't like (boosts). If tokens were removed, I would start boosting again. If the demand for boosts happened to fall down and cheapen too much, I would start buying 3rd party gold. So yeah... No matter how you look at it, I will always be either a gold buyer (from Blizz or from 3rd party) or a service seller (ultimately requiring someone else to buy that gold so they can pay me). That's how the current game is designed, and there's no way around it for me.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    There's been a real life money price tag on everything since vanilla (I had friends offer me between $50 to $100 to level them in vanilla). WoW token just makes the transactions safer.
    The difference here is, it was at least against the rules and Blizzard attempted to stop it. I know people that tried to buy gold in TBC and were banned, and that thought of losing your account was enough to stop most people doing it.

    With the WoW token and Blizzard's current stance, you can legitimately buy the best gear in the game with real life money. It has run rampant because it is effectively pay to win, that is completely allowed and there is no fear of repercussions.

  13. #13
    I think we'd see a noticeable drop off in the number of players. I personally know many people in my guild alone who don't pay a subscription due the token and have commented that if they were unable to afford it through gold they would likely just quit. I haven't paid my subscription since it launched and often use tokens for other WoW products. I recently started some horde toons to play with other friends and spent gold to buy the balance to transfer a low level alliance alt over with some gold for them.

    Overall I do think it's a positive for the game. Most carries can't be done while the content is relevant anyway. Paying for a Heroic Nya'lotha carry today doesn't mean much, nor do 5 mask visions, nor does a +15 keystone.
    “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.”
    – C.S. Lewis

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Moose View Post
    The difference here is, it was at least against the rules and Blizzard attempted to stop it. I know people that tried to buy gold in TBC and were banned, and that thought of losing your account was enough to stop most people doing it.

    With the WoW token and Blizzard's current stance, you can legitimately buy the best gear in the game with real life money. It has run rampant because it is effectively pay to win, that is completely allowed and there is no fear of repercussions.
    The number of people using WoW tokens to buy runs is so incredibly small that it has absolutely no place anywhere other than shitty arguments in favor of removing it. The WoW token isn't the reason the economy is inundated by sale runs. It's two full fucking expansions of Blizzard allowing players to generate ridiculous amounts of gold which has caused this problem, people just blame the WoW token because they don't like it.

  15. #15
    If it's not WoW Tokens, will be another thing and i like to buy GameTime with WoW Tokens.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    If Blizzard removed the tokens, would that increase or decrease the number of boosts?

    I buy 2 tokens per months to buy consumables for high-end M+, because I don't want to do the content I don't like (boosts). If tokens were removed, I would start boosting again. If the demand for boosts happened to fall down and cheapen too much, I would start buying 3rd party gold. So yeah... No matter how you look at it, I will always be either a gold buyer (from Blizz or from 3rd party) or a service seller (ultimately requiring someone else to buy that gold so they can pay me). That's how the current game is designed, and there's no way around it for me.
    I think it would decrease it but I could be wrong. I know before the token while carries existed it was never close to the extent of their prevalence afterwards.

    It tended to be reserved for high rollers and ah mongrels. I don't know if removing the token would change that now. A lot of players are sitting on hordes of gold from wod and a lesser extent mop when broken farming methods run rampant.

    Eventually I think those reserves will be exhausted but I can't say if carries would vanish or simply become cheaper as a result.

  17. #17
    WoW token is better for the health of the game. More people can play this way.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    I think we'd see a noticeable drop off in the number of players. I personally know many people in my guild alone who don't pay a subscription due the token and have commented that if they were unable to afford it through gold they would likely just quit. I haven't paid my subscription since it launched and often use tokens for other WoW products. I recently started some horde toons to play with other friends and spent gold to buy the balance to transfer a low level alliance alt over with some gold for them.

    Overall I do think it's a positive for the game. Most carries can't be done while the content is relevant anyway. Paying for a Heroic Nya'lotha carry today doesn't mean much, nor do 5 mask visions, nor does a +15 keystone.
    I think it puts new players into a weird setting were it seems carries are the normal way to start progressing. I don't really know if I'm for or against to be honest I just see the situation as well...less then ideal.

    I think k blizzard should create some kind of market place for players to sell services to one another maybe a special lfd tab for it.

  19. #19
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    WoW token is better for the health of the game. More people can play this way.
    this, i would not play this game if it was no by the token, people sometimes forgot the subscription price outside USA is damn high
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-07-04 at 04:33 AM.

  20. #20
    I highly doubt cutting off part of blizzard's income is going to net you a better game. It would probably just end up with having them put out more half-assed WoD expansions.

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