Originally Posted by Tziva
Look! A decent person, a rare sight indeed.
Originally Posted by Tziva
Look! A decent person, a rare sight indeed.
You've got a good point I guess. When it comes to the extremes it doesn't make much sense.
But adding pvp rating is not the same as adding pve progress. Skills to be high rated in pvp are not the same ones that are needed in high end pve content (i.e. the classic "Don't stand in fire").
You can't tell me that a person with high mythic raid progress is not more mechanically capable than someone who has none, right ? And to answer your question, I would probably go for the person A, because I am sure that someone who has done mythic carapace knows his shit. But that's just me, I presume most people would go for the person B.
but a mythic raider does not automatically know how to play in a high key dungeon. It's a different type of content with a different gameplay, oftentimes with a different talent build. That player A who you'd pick, well he knows mythic carapace. He wiped at it hundreds of times. But how does that help in mythic+? Maybe he has no idea how bosses work and just killed them in a burst but it's tyrannical week and you need to know the boss exactly. He wiped hundreds of times at Carapace but he never wiped in Kings Rest. He doesn't know the bosses and he will very likely deplete your key.
PvE does not equal PvE. Dungeons and raids are very different parts of the game that need different knowledge to be good at. ESPECIALLY when that player is a tank. Being 11/12m does absolutely nothing if the tank has no clue about the route.
I definitely agree with the tank part, tanks need to know exactly what and when to pull.
I think that a person who is pushing for cutting edge has most definitely done all the +15 mythic dungeons at least two or three times, which is more than enough to know exactly what is going on. Dungeon bosses mechanics aren't rocket science, they're mostly simple.
It's just my opinion and I might be wrong, because I'm looking at it from my perspective, where I've been doing those dungeons from day one of BfA, but I guess there might be a person who just started in 8.3, he did raids but hasn't done many (or all) of the dungeons so he doesn't know, for an example, to click the coffins in King's Rest when someone gets entombed.
You make a good point.
I dont get it - why is a depleted run on your score a bad thing to show? If you spent time in the key and leave - that time is completely wasted, no items, no echos at least.
If i have 2 players - one with no run in underrot and one that depleted a 16 underrot, I would ofc take the one with the depleted underrot: 1. he has done the run, start to finish even tho its not in time and 2. he didnt leave even though he could have.
There are some players who get many hundreds of points within several hours (e.g. reuniting with old key-pushing friends after inactivity&re-gearing). I feel I'm justified if I ever happen to use their score that is 1 day old.
These are normally the players who just transferred or name changed. Their website already updated, but the addon did not catch up yet.
Yeah, depleted keys of very low levels might never got on Blizz leaderboards, and hence never reach raider.io. But now that we can (request raider.io to) parse our highest timed keys for every dungeon directly from armory, at least we never lose score due to the limitations of Blizz leaderboards.
Yea, it's never bad if you care to put in the effort.
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The score shows some experience, but it's certainly not a proof of anything such as skill.
On a related note, many people underestimate the psychological factor of being invited into content that is considerably above the invitee's experience level. I am generally up to bring my casual friends into keys that are "very high" for them (the highest we think can be completed before people want to quit, normally around +19-22 depending on who wants to come). I can remember multiple depletes where we were about to time a high key against all odds, but then someone becomes too over-hyped or over-nervous and makes the dumbest of mistakes just because of that (after being on top of much more complicated things for the entire run). The mental fortitude is important, and the sheer fact of having been a part of multiple timed keys at level +Z (no matter how much of a "boost" it was) - helps people every next time they attempt keys at level +Z.
That's just you being you. People who are progressing in +25 keys will invite just about anyone into +20s, because that's a very low and easy key level for them. More generally, having played high keys since mid-Legion, I have realized I stopped being too protective about whom I invite even into the keys that are high for me... I have depleted hundreds of keys, and it made me numb over time... Depleting one more key is not the end of the world.
Depleted run information is a data point one can use, but not always a meaningful one. I have been a part of several premade groups over the years, and only in one group we regularly cared to finish fucked up keys just to reroll them. But most of the time you would see very few depleted keys in my premade groups. At times, I can be burned out and only ever run keys with my premade group; and I would only care to be as good as I have to... Just making sure I am not the one who drags the group down... And then there are times when I go crazy on keys, convince myself I just love to play hard content, and join any pug group that would invite me, no matter how scuffed/inexperienced they might look. Such indiscretion in group choices leads to numerous depleted keys on my profile, but that's also when I'm at my sharpest because that's when I play the most and love doing it the most (and pugging requires one to be sharper in general).
This logic is probably true when applied to people who are progressing low keys like 15-18s. But if you ever try to push "as high as you can" for fun&challenge, your raiding experience becomes meaningless (unless you are currently progress raiding in like world rank 10 guild -- then I would trust you to learn on the fly from what I explain to you during the run).
Oh no, you do not. There's a wealth of knowledge/experience to be gained in M+, and you could not have noticed even a fraction of it by doing just +16s (because it all still does nearly 0 damage and has 0 impact in the scaling that you get at +16 level). Not even if you timed all your +16s in the first week of this tier (so in sub-460 gear). But then, it's also clear you're just not interested in learning/experiencing the depth there is to M+, just as I'm not interested in pet battles. It's a fair choice.
Last edited by ID811717; 2020-07-10 at 06:26 AM.
I didn't say it's a proof of skill. I said it's a proof of knowledge. As much of a proof as it can be, at least. There are always ways to cheat the system but for most people who have a 1.5-2k rating I can expect of them a baseline level of knowledge about the dungeon and their class/spec. I'm not expecting them to perfectly dodge all aoe while doing ridiculous dps and knowing all the cheese strats. I'm expecting people to know the boss mechanics and to not do ~30k dps.
Such people are at least hungry for dungeon completion and don't just leave midway because it's not going to be a smooth run.On a related note, many people underestimate the psychological factor of being invited into content that is considerably above the invitee's experience level.