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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    WoW's endgame now is much more about pushing yourself to the limits in pvp/m+/raids. Nyalotha is kind of a shitstain in this but lets call it the exception that confirms the rule.
    SMALL HINT:

    WoW never changed in the last 15+ years. New players just don't see it, because they don't experienced it yet overtime. Everything that matters to you in this game, might be something that 99.9% of the players either don't care or don't even recognize as important to have fun. You either realize that fast and have fun or you burn yourself out with content you dont really like, just because some random player told you what to do.

    MMOs allow you to "do whatever you want" and that might be to much for people who are used to straight game directives to have fun playing the game. Its the real main-game in WoW, find something you enjoy and maybe find other players that enjoy the same in this game. Clearly not something that the majority of the players achieve.

    Last edited by Ange; 2020-07-06 at 11:11 AM.
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Topic has kind of been touched on before but I figured I would bring it up In a more focused form. In recent expansions wow has started to really focus on the concept that time gating is the preferred option to skill gating content.

    Essences, ap, corruption resistance are all examples of content that is time gated to varies degrees. Now don't get me wrong blizzard has been desperately trying to time gate content as early as tbc and even vanilla if you count the aq gates.

    It just seems that in the past it was massively pushed back against. The concept that if you were good enough at the game to run something you should be able to run it prevailed but I noticed that slowly but surely the idea that in order to run end game you must first farm trivial content to excess to succeed hs taken hold.

    I can understand why pointless systems like leveling your cloak exists but with the playerbase becoming more and more accepting of practices that are only in place to draw out content do you think we will see a ever increasing amount of them put into place?
    It's always been like this with things like raiding, no matter how good you were at the game you still had to stick to the lockout schedule.

    It's coming in to more parts of the game because of the discrepancies in how people play the game. Without the time-gating they would either have to put in huge grinds that players with less time to play could never get through, or a more reasonable grind that hard-core players could blast through in a week before complaining they have no reason to log in.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    If you narrow it down that much, you will be allways right with such a broad match.

    The question remains why you mention serious in a GRIND GAME that is basicly made to take long/forever in its main core, for the players who want more than the usual 48-100 hours of gameplay / game.

    I mean if raiding (following basic strategies) would be everything, there were no speedruns, no pvp at all, no gold billionaires and no solo content pushers (basicly the seed for challenge modes/proving grounds/mythic+).

    Some parts of the game have very little friction with the casual gamers, but who cares? Playing a niche mini-game (progression raiding) is in the end just as silly in a casual MMO as collecting pets or playing with friends just for fun.

    ABC classification makes not much sense in a grind game when your main focus is on "actual purpose" - the whole genre is the polar opposite to that.
    Well i mean it more for what the genre is about in a sense.

    If you are raiding, it means you care about character progression, in the sense of WoW, Gear chasing aka raiding, despite all the changes to keep people playing/staying for more $$, the core of the game is the same, Gear, gear, and more gear chase, till gear reset, majority through raiding, generally!

    I dont know if Fifa has the option, but you dont play Fifa ONLY to create team representative T-shirts , as example, you play Fifa for the football.

    Thats my reasoning, if someone is having fun creating T-shirts in WoW (Pet Battles/PvP/just questing/Transmog/Gold making) or whatever else they are doing, good for them, but they arent playing the game for its purpose.

    Thats why there are categories of players, people that play the game correctly and people that dont, are they having fun? Good for them, but its irrelevant when discussing these type of things.

    Its the same for me in FPS games, i play decently because i play games for 20 years, but i dont care to know every curve, every weapon recoil, every single grenade throw position, because i am only playing for fun.

    But all hell breaks looks when my buddies slack in a M+ we have been doing for 2 years in a +18 or up as example because he didnt feel like interrupting or when my raiders didnt feel like doing mechanics because PEW PEW CLEAVE EVERYTHING FUN MODE and we end up wiping on something we killed 15 times before.

    So, in FPS games, i am a C spectrum of my example.
    Last edited by potis; 2020-07-06 at 11:40 AM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Well i mean it more for what the genre is about in a sense.

    If you are raiding, it means you care about character progression, in the sense of WoW, Gear chasing aka raiding, despite all the changes to keep people playing/staying for more $$, the core of the game is the same, Gear, gear, and more gear chase, till gear reset, majority through raiding, generally!

    I dont know if Fifa has the option, but you dont play Fifa ONLY to create team representative T-shirts , as example, you play Fifa for the football.

    Thats my reasoning, if someone is having fun creating T-shirts in WoW (Pet Battles/PvP/just questing/Transmog/Gold making) or whatever else they are doing, good for them, but they arent playing the game for its purpose.

    Thats why there are categories of players, people that play the game correctly and people that dont, are they having fun? Good for them, but its irrelevant when discussing these type of things.

    Its the same for me in FPS games, i play decently because i play games for 20 years, but i dont care to know every curve, every weapon recoil, every single grenade throw position, because i am only playing for fun.

    But all hell breaks looks when my buddies slack in a M+ we have been doing for 2 years in a +18 or up as example because he didnt feel like interrupting or when my raiders didnt feel like doing mechanics because PEW PEW CLEAVE EVERYTHING FUN MODE and we end up wiping on something we killed 15 times before.

    So, in FPS games, i am a C spectrum of my example.
    I actually dont think gear really matters with how trivial it is to acquire. A full 465 character takes maybe a week two if your slow to get.

    It takes a lot longer to get essences then it does gear.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I actually dont think gear really matters with how trivial it is to acquire. A full 465 character takes maybe a week two if your slow to get.

    It takes a lot longer to get essences then it does gear.
    Its easier now and it has to do with what level of play you play at.

    The majority, i wont say the 99%, but i can easily bet a 95% of the active players dont reach 465 even after all these months of 8.3 being out.

    For sure they didnt reach 465 the first 2 weeks of the patch being out, they couldnt even reach 440.

    And many more things that i cba writing, generally people really dont do basic math and figure out basic things on how the game actually works.

    Its the same for the "mYTHOUC RAIDURS" that get cutting edge 1 week before the next patch, where the boss is 20% nerfed, and with random changes they are 20% buffed, so they are literally doing a completely different boss than the top 50 world.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its easier now and it has to do with what level of play you play at.

    The majority, i wont say the 99%, but i can easily bet a 95% of the active players dont reach 465 even after all these months of 8.3 being out.

    For sure they didnt reach 465 the first 2 weeks of the patch being out, they couldnt even reach 440.

    And many more things that i cba writing, generally people really dont do basic math and figure out basic things on how the game actually works.

    Its the same for the "mYTHOUC RAIDURS" that get cutting edge 1 week before the next patch, where the boss is 20% nerfed, and with random changes they are 20% buffed, so they are literally doing a completely different boss than the top 50 world.
    I guess? I'm not really sure what it is your trying to say with this to be honest.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I guess? I'm not really sure what it is your trying to say with this to be honest.
    Of course you dont because you are in the category that has no clue what he is talking about, you just complain to complain or something along those lines, as the majority of the players.

    Gear is trivial to acquire but you are somehow not 480 and you are using 465 as a measurement of comparison cause thats where your limited knowledge about things, ends and bla bla bla.

    Usual mmo-champion shenanigans, dont worry.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Even WoW Classic indicates the actual fact, there was barely any skilled involved before ..Cata averagely, you just required time, the game has changed massively to become much more fast paced, dangerous and require way more coordination/reflexes/actual skill than before, and its why all the old dogs are crying cause they cant keep up.
    rofl

    Old dog here. I have no problems keeping up with the new mechanics. The new mechanics, in reality, require less coordination, the same reflexes, and less skill than before. When I was raiding in Legion and earlier in BfA, I averaged 90% according to Warcraftlogs...so clearly my age isn't a barrier and I clearly perform just fine in these raids.

    The reason old dogs like me complain about Retail is because it is pointlessly mechanic heavy and, once you learn it, insanely boring. It doesn't matter what rdps I bring to the current crop of raids; I play each one of them exactly the same, because the mechanics are the same. This is true for every mdps, tank, and healer.

    And then when the group progresses from Normal to Heroic, *some* fights add another mechanic. While people like you likely say, "Oh! Exciting!", people like me are rolling their eyes. Yeah, the same thing I did for weeks, I get to do all over again with a minor change here and there. Sorry, but I don't excited about the "gold star" of AOTC and the same gear I already had with slightly better stats.

    What really changed is that when I was heavily raiding in places like Karazhan, I used to enjoy each week because I would have a different mix of players, and that actually affected how the encounters played out. Same with most dungeons. I got *sooo* frigging bored with running the same handful of dungeons over and over again...adding an affix rarely changed how it plays out (i.e. tank charge, everyone AoE, some interrupt, rinse and repeat ad nauseum).

    As for the OP's question, the answer is that time gates are substantially cheaper than "skill" gates. I put skill in quotes because the game has never been overly hard. There simply was a lot more content to progress through in the original and first 2 expansions. Blizz has been cutting corners more and more with each expansion since Wraith to the point that we are left with a game of repeating the same things over and over again for a chance of getting the same gear we got the first time with slightly better stats.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Of course you dont because you are in the category that has no clue what he is talking about, you just complain to complain or something along those lines, as the majority of the players.

    Gear is trivial to acquire but you are somehow not 480 and you are using 465 as a measurement of comparison cause thats where your limited knowledge about things, ends and bla bla bla.

    Usual mmo-champion shenanigans, dont worry.
    I mean gear isn't the time gate essences mostly are. I don't get what point your trying to make in terms of the thread...?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    People resub for a patch, and after Method.. sorry some guild gets world first.. they go back to sucking some other games tits until the next patch. Tbh, I’d rather people just either played the damn game or quit. It’s annoying AF to see people resub for 2 weeks and act hard, then leave until the next patch lol

    why would i want to the same stuff for months when i have seen it in 1-2 months.

    play the same dungeon for 500times to increase score on a meaningless 3rd party website, do same boring vision 5mask run for rng corruption? grind essences grind this ams that boring.

    new patch is nice for 1-2 months with a new raid and some features.
    Last edited by jiih; 2020-07-06 at 01:19 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by jiih View Post
    why would i want to the same stuff for months when i have seen it in 1-2 months.
    You understand the basic MMO design? If you dont like repetive game play you just choose the worst possible genre for your game time.

    As a content tourist you are just stuck in the ultra-casual gaming mode in WoW and most likely never even get into the sub-communitys because of this. The game and community you experience is a very different one what regular players experience.

    Speedruns are a thing since vanilla's baron STRAT runs and UBRS speeds and mythic+ with world-wide competition is just the evolution what the core players allways did in this game. If you don't like it, don't participate. But after 15+ years of this game and community with no major changes, you have to ask yourself if you maybe made a bad choice with WoW, when you don't even like the base game/community in the first place.

    Questioning basic unchanged game mechanics that are wanted by the community and supported by the DEV's since the first years is just silly and no, the game might not change after 15years to something you might like.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post

    I mean your right about the cloak... nothing else but I can give you that.

    Bwl is super doable in dungeon gear.
    If you're talking about Classic then nothing is new and you still need a couple of people with the MC gear to even reach the numbers. Soy up most likely got carried.

  13. #113
    I cannot say much of the game since vanilla to current expansion has had much of a skill check. Its more just a thing of does the pride of cats finally start moving in the right direction. You know, do the two idiots in your raid finally figure out to stop casting fireball and move out of the raid wipe mechanic. So almost everything in the game has always boiled down to time gates in one way or the other. Time because things are released over time. Or time because it takes john and ashley going for that 22 parse to stop casting fireball. Unless of course you are that john or that ashley.

  14. #114
    What is this heresy? It's actually completely opposite.

    Game moved from time gates to skill gates.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    snip
    Congrats, your attempt to show off means jack shit, especially when you even mention Normal in your thread.

    And then Karazhan, which shows even more....At least mention some sort of Top 20 world kill or something, or a realm first if you wanna act important.

    Stop random assumptions, and if you felt offended by the old dog comment then it was obviously not targeted towards you, the majority of people over the age of averagely 35 that grew up with WoW are insanely shit at the game and cant keep up with how its changed in their majority.

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