Wait...When Did People Start To Bitter To Shadowlands?

[TheEaterofSouls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dfMsHvxYFY

So Preach has made some videos explaining his issues with shadowlands. Something about players being "forced" to pick certain covenants and being stuck there forever? Can someone explain to me the sudden drama and hate surrounding shadowlands? Just a week ago Preach was praising the game. Now Shadowlands is going in a bad direction? What changed. I'm genuinely confused as to what happened over the past week. I'm trying to relate to the criticism but its really hard to relate to. I have never been forced by my guild to play something I don't like. His problem just sounds confusing to me as im so far removed from this issue. Can someone explain this drama to me? And the sudden bitterness to Shadowlands? This isn't specifically about Preaches feelings themself, the videos just seem to be the catalyst for the recent drama.

I'm sorry preach but this video treats the other side as bad and ignorant. That anyone that disagrees with him is selfish. Why am I selfish for prefering a permanent decision to being given the choice to swap abilities? For wanting covanents to not be swap able? Wouldn't the other side be just as selfish?

[Vakir]

People can praise a game and praise the positive attributes while also finding issues with a lot of other aspects. It's not all one way or the other.

Shocking as it may be with how vocal I get in other threads about Covenant abilities, I myself am actually pretty excited for Shadowlands even though there's a fly in my soup in the form of the same thing he is complaining about. I can't claim to have experience with it as the No Alpha club, but these guys have already been testing this stuff for hundreds of hours, and it's not all going to be feedback universally driven by wanting to be a hardcore 1%er.

So people didn't really "start" to be bitter about Shadowlands - these are issues that have been talked about pretty much since we saw the full suite of abilities. Especially when it became known that instead of 4 generic movement based abilities, the 4 abilities they gave were very different from one another.

[Clozer]

He's a drama content creator. He shits on the game nonstop, this is how he makes money after all.

[Vakir]

He's a drama content creator. He shits on the game nonstop, this is how he makes money after all.

Preach is pretty reasonable. His feedback regarding Torghast has been generally positive, he described some specs such as 9.0 Enhancement as "almost perfect," and the negative talk on Covenants has been after hours of videos detailing individual breakdowns of each.

If you meant someone like HeelsVsBabyface, I'd understand, but not here. There's a reason he has an invite and does interviews with the devs, and it's because the feedback is seen as valuable.

[TheEaterofSouls]

People can praise a game and praise the positive attributes while also finding issues with a lot of other aspects. It's not all one way or the other.

Shocking as it may be with how vocal I get in other threads about Covenant abilities, I myself am actually pretty excited for Shadowlands even though there's a fly in my soup in the form of the same thing he is complaining about. I can't claim to have experience with it as the No Alpha club, but these guys have already been testing this stuff for hundreds of hours, and it's not all going to be feedback universally driven by wanting to be a hardcore 1%er.

So people didn't really "start" to be bitter about Shadowlands - these are issues that have been talked about pretty much since we saw the full suite of abilities. Especially when it became known that instead of 4 generic movement based abilities, the 4 abilities they gave were very different from one another.

Usually if it's a 1% issue preach understands that it's not reasonable to expect massive changes to cater to the 1%. Even tho he wants it to be changed. But the narrative in these videos feels like he's pushing the idea that these issues affect a majority of the playerbase. When I don't think they will.

Maybe im missing something? What does Preach want to be changed? And how does he want it changed? The video is alitle confusing to a casual player like me.

[------------------------]

When Did People Start To Bitter To Shadowlands?

right after the cinematic reveal

[Silent Earth]

He's a drama content creator. He shits on the game nonstop, this is how he makes money after all.

Hilariously untrue. Preach is genuinely interested in the well-being of the game, and wants it to be the best that it can be.

[McNeil]

Is this just about Preach or people in general? I've seen people remain sceptical due to how BFA was handled and they just want to play a proper version of the game asap. I don't watch a lot of Preach but he seems reasonable enough that he recognises problems that needs to be fixed and then give praise to when it happens.

[Vakir]

Usually if it's a 1% issue preach understands that it's not reasonable to expect massive changes to cater to the 1%. Even tho he wants it to be changed. But the narrative in these videos feels like he's pushing the idea that these issues affect a majority of the playerbase. When I don't think they will.

I've linked and quoted this around 4-5 times today. Don't mean it in a rude way, I get there's a LOT of threads on this:

https://www.pcgamer.com/wow-covenant...ffer-pcgamertw

"What can easily be dismissed as a concern for only like the top fraction of one percent of players has a way of trickling down through guides and player perception into the behavior of a broader range of players," game director Ion Hazzikostas told me in an interview yesterday. "And I think, at the core of a lot of these concerns is the anxiety that someone is going to pick the Covenant that they think is coolest and then get told that they're being declined for a Mythic+ group, or pick-up group raid or whatever, because they're in the wrong Covenant. That's a very valid concern."

It almost certainly will affect a huge cross-section of the playerbase. Whether they recognize it right now or not. It would also allow for all 52 abilities to be far less homogenized and more interesting.

The reason they describe it as "selfish" is that between the person who wants to do their own thing and doesn't care, and the person who feels compelled to deal with the exclusivity of these abilities to continue with content that has a higher entry barrier, the person who doesn't care is the one who gets off easier if they decide to make abilities swapable. Right now, the only people arguing otherwise are upset that it'll mean their particular spell aesthetic isn't as special snowflake to them - even though they'd still have a unique story, unique mog, unique title, unique activities, unique soulbinds, unique sanctum, unique travel, etc.

People who play competitively suffer in one way if they aren't swappable because they now are either locked out of certain optimal modes of playing OR need to grind for a significant extra period. People who don't care suffer if abilities are swappable because...they care so much about what other people are doing? Not really equivalent.

It's absolutely selfish. We're not even getting into how allowing for changing specs and talents is fundamentally at odds with not being able to change certain abilities that favor specific builds. You want to PvP and PvE and don't want to feel like you're playing at a disadvantage? Better roll 2 of your main or swap.

[Krakan]

Content creators as they are called were under a NDA to not talk about systems.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Hilariously untrue. Preach is genuinely interested in the well-being of the game, and wants it to be the best that it can be.

i think preach is genuine too. im just alittle put off by his recent video because im so far removed from the issue. If anyone wants to explain it and a potential solution, id appreciate it. Maybe let people swap covanents but reward the players who put loyalty into a single covanent?

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SNIP

thanks. Sounds like the Devs are definately aware of preaches issues atleast. i kinda understand even if it doesnt bother me personally

[Vakir]

i think preach is genuine too. im just alittle put off by his recent video because im so far removed from the issue. If anyone wants to explain it and a potential solution, id appreciate it. Maybe let people swap covanents but reward the players who put loyalty into a single covanent?

Make the 4 active class and utility abilities swappable.

Everything else should remain as-is. Soulbinds are doable since all 4 get the same Conduits and it's way, way easier to balance traits on basically another talent tree.

Hell, if they want to punish the new ability flexibility, I'd be perfectly OK with them making it permanent with NO way to ever swap. At least I'd know going in that I could pick what interests me in terms of the story, aesthetic, and identity without being punished.

[A Chozo]

Are we really creating discussion threads everytime Preach or some other random youtuber opens their mouth?!?

Fine then.

People have some weird sentimentality regarding WoW because it's a virtual world that's older than some of it's players. Preach is being dramatic.

[Krakan]

i think preach is genuine too. im just alittle put off by his recent video because im so far removed from the issue. If anyone wants to explain it and a potential solution, id appreciate it. Maybe let people swap covanents but reward the players who put loyalty into a single covanent?

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thanks. Sounds like the Devs are definately aware of preaches issues atleast. i kinda understand even if it doesnt bother me personally

Making covenant only active in the open world along with soul binds fixes it.

[Accendor]

He's a drama content creator. He shits on the game nonstop, this is how he makes money after all.

Dude, he is literally celebrating 90% of the alpha. I have no idea what you are talking about.

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i think preach is genuine too. im just alittle put off by his recent video because im so far removed from the issue. If anyone wants to explain it and a potential solution, id appreciate it. Maybe let people swap covanents but reward the players who put loyalty into a single covanent?

SImply don't put abilities behind the Covenants, easy as that.

[TheRevenantHero]

When did people start becoming bitter towards Shadowlands? Personally, my bitterness started with the egregious retcons of the lore. Then the gameplay functions started being announced and none of it looks good other than Torghast. They're shoving piles of game systems into the expansion and it's making the expansion look like an overbloated mobile game.

[Saltysquidoon]

I'm sorry preach but this video treats the other side as bad and ignorant. That anyone that disagrees with him is selfish. Why am I selfish for prefering a permanent decision to being given the choice to swap abilities? For wanting covanents to not be swap able? Wouldn't the other side be just as selfish?

Whenever people suggest visual fluff and nonsense that is irrelevant to the game like new customisations, or transmogs anyone, saying ANYTHING even vaguely negative is assaulted with "more options GUD" or "why do you want to take away people's choices".

As so as people want more gameplay options it's always "lol only the *insert made up a small number here*% will care" or some other variation of an imagined rebellion against 'elitist' persecution.

Super weird how that works.

[Echocho]

He's mad because he can't be 100% optimal at all facets of the game every single encounter.

[Nuggsy]

Preach is pretty reasonable. His feedback regarding Torghast has been generally positive, he described some specs such as 9.0 Enhancement as "almost perfect," and the negative talk on Covenants has been after hours of videos detailing individual breakdowns of each.

If you meant someone like HeelsVsBabyface, I'd understand, but not here. There's a reason he has an invite and does interviews with the devs, and it's because the feedback is seen as valuable.

You're not going to convince people on this thread that Preach is good at what he does. Yes he has a bias towards the top and and wanting things catered more towards that, but these threads are mostly designed to shit on the guy. The OP has done more than a few "Preach posts" and I'm not sure why because if they were an actual fan of his they'd know MMO Champ fourm posters don't like him and like to act like they're better/more informed than him.

I don't consider myself a "hardcore" gamer but I do like to do mythics and push 15's. Personally I think tying any kind of performance to something like covenants is just a bad design. Plenty of Shadowlands things looks great, but I think people have been distracted by the really cool customization options the whole time as well as Torghast and are only now just realizing there are some big flaws. "Meaningful Choices" are great and all but they shouldn't include how the characters play because in the end it's always a set up for failure. In my opinion Covenants should be tied to unique stories and transmog that's about it. Do I think things should be catered to the 1% who make the choice to be 1000% efficient? No. But tying styles of gameplay/power to something that isn't easily changed is bad design.

[Vakir]

Super weird how that works.

Because many of the same people who want more visual customization are the same people who are invalidating more competitive players people's enjoyment of the game.

I like transmog, but I don't criticize their decision to use WoW as a virtual doll house. They should similarly understand when I don't want to ram my dick against a wall because Blizzard can't balance active abilities. Not to mention, maybe I want to keep an aesthetic I like...and not be crappy. Gasp!